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I think this bearing tech has been around for a while but they now seem to be targeting us lot with it,will be great if it does indeed do as they say and it significantly prolongs the life of bike bearings-especially in difficult conditions .Pricey though at around £18 plus per bearing .
I'd be interested to try them, only one way to find out if they actually work*
*Free bearings on Bronson means in reality, I won't!
How good is the sealing though?
IMO, nothing wrong with wheel bearings, they typically sit behind an adapter and additional seal. Suspension/headset bearings on the other hand are always in the firing line of mud/water/sand and the seal fails letting water in.
I’m all over these when my frame bearings need doing...won’t be long either I’m sure! Interested to hear anyone who has experiences
Interesting to see what the differences are.
I'm sure I've seen rear mech pulleys with solid ceramic bushings tho.
Thread title is misleading.
Its not a solid bearing (bushing). Its a normal bearing with a solid lubricant between the balls so it cant be washed out.
Yep indeed it should of said 'solid oil' and looking at the date on that video-these have been around for over a year so I'm guessing quite a few may of tried them or will be running them or maybe not?
This video shows more detail of the actual bearing
Oh.. then.. yes, seems good.
They do seem good, £180 or so to change the frame bearings on mine... the thing is that I typically change the frame bearings once in my usual 3 year ownership.
I was at Eurobike yesterday and took a look. The tech has been around for 20 years for marine applications, apparently a new product manager is a mountain biker and spotted the opportunity.
The solid lubricant doesn't allow any room for dirt to get in apparently.
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/cane-creek-hellbender-neo-bottom-bracket-eurobike-2019.html
cane creek have started using them, albeit not SKF as far as I can tell.
cane creek have started using them, albeit not SKF as far as I can tell.
That article says "But the Neo bearing, from the Swedish folks at SKF...
Solid idea...who knows how long they will last..DOESNT MATTER how solid the seals are they will ultimately wear out..grit and dirt WILL GET IN so durability will vary a bit.. and if its solid oil..it will eventually deteriorate..and what happens then..catastrophic failure? Or steady slow failure with warning..
I deal with lifetime service parts on cars...they ALWAYS need maintenance eventually and then are a mere as they dont design drains or level indicators in stuff or put non reusable fasteners that break on removal ..its a double edged sword..
They're on my list for headset and hubs as they go.
Their design principle effectively shows that SKF thinks the same as those of us that crack open bearings from new and fill them with grease.
That article says “But the Neo bearing, from the Swedish folks at SKF…
and the as far as I can tell, in this case meant I'd skim read/not really read it in full 😉 oops.
Where are you guys getting prices and availability for these?
I'd love to see these tested,can some kind soul buy a load of em and install them down just one side of his or her entire bike and say a set from enduro down the other and then report back after our 6 months or so winter that is probably gonna start in a couple of months time-and fingers crossed it a real long and wet one !
They have by the looks of it a standard outer seal so water will still get in from use,I guess its then whether or not this copes/defends against corrosion and wear better internally once it's in that will count and make a difference.
The solid lubricant doesn’t allow any room for dirt to get in apparently
Ok, I don't want to sound all luddite and 'booo, new stuff, booooooooo', however.....
If the above is true, why the seals either side? And if the seals actually stop the dirt and grit, what advantage does the solid lube really give over easily repackable normal bearings?
I guess because most bearings arent repackable. By the time Ive got the end caps off, axle out, picked at the seal, flushed it with paraffin, dried with air, and re packed thats more work than just tapping the bearing out with a hammer and pushing a new one in.
Even without that there's a lot people who are either too busy or have more money than the time. And at that point having bearings that last longer becomes beneficial if it means less time faffing and an overall saving on lbs bills.
Fair enough, that does sound logical. So, in effect, it's a more technically advanced way of offering single use sealed bearings?
A tiny part of me does think that the zeitgeist is moving towards more reusable solutions for stuff generally, and this is perhaps peak polar opposite and may have missed the boat, but I really am starting to sound like Captain Luddite, so I'll shut up now. 🙂
If you reduce the number of bearings you have to change (produce) then isn't it a better option ? Assuming that the insert does not impede its ability to be recycled ?
(I chuck them in the metal skip at the household waste site).
d love to see these tested,can some kind soul buy a load of em and install them down just one side of his or her entire bike and say a set from enduro down the other and then report back after our 6 months or so winter that is probably gonna start in a couple of months time-and fingers crossed it a real long and wet one !
As it happens I have a set of BO Enduro and a Set of Solid SKF to test for just this purpose. Id not thought of doing it on one bike. I like the plan! I shall report back....
Their design principle effectively shows that SKF thinks the same as those of us that crack open bearings from new and fill them with grease.
No, it doesn't. Packing with normal grease and this solid stuff is completely different due to the dynamics. Basically packing grease is bad (at higher speeds) as the balls can end up riding on an oil wedge which causes them to deform. With a solid grease the wedge cannot form and so the bearing retains its life.
If anything these should last longer but it would depend on whether the solid grease needs the bearing to reach a certain or constant speed to work properly. For a BB I can see it working but for pivots and headsets I'm not so sure.
Edit:I'd be wary of a dual test as described, one set could adversely affect the other if the tolerances or wear rates are different. On the other hand its going to be difficult to do anything else with the same conditions.
In my experience mtb bearings die because of water/muck getting past the seals and corroding the balls/race, not because anything wears out due to lack of lubricant
So if this matrix stuff keeps muck out better than grease, the bearings will last longer for mtb use.
I understand the point about potentially needing a certain rpm/operating temp for the solid lubricant to work properly but I think that’s irrelevant.
As far as bottom brackets go, a Shimano Deore HT2 BB is 12 quid at Wiggle and if you're remotely competent, can be changed in ten minutes or so and, these days, lasts pretty well. You could buy ten or more of them for the price of a single Cane Creek one with SKF Soliud Bearings.
So while I applaud the idea of improved sustainability and I can see the attraction if you're a high mileage rider with limited maintenance opportunities - eg: you're riding round the world - I'm not sure it's an attractive proposition for most of us.
For suspension pivots, hubs and head-sets I can see the attraction, though if designers actually put some effort into protecting those bearings from dirt and water ingress in the first place, it would be less of an issue to start with.
I'm guessing that you can't source the solid oil at an aftermarket consumer level. I eagerly await feedback from the first person to fill their bearings with Sugru 🙂
A tiny part of me does think that the zeitgeist is moving towards more reusable solutions for stuff generally
True, but that's a fallacy. If you wanted to save the environment from thr negative impacts of mountainbike production, you'd not ride mountainbikes.
They dont have a benefit in that sense, they're just less bad than a lot of other things you could do.
Like fair trade organic coffee. Its still been grown, harvested, transported, roasted, transported again, packed, transported, boiling water, etc. All for zero nutritional value.
I’m guessing that you can’t source the solid oil at an aftermarket consumer level. I eagerly await feedback from the first person to fill their bearings with Sugru 🙂
Ive got some 6001 bearings and a tub of putoline?
#wasteoftime no 25*37*6 or even no 24*37*7
mountain bikers ? really ? steering column ?
Sounds promising for frame bearings, which are a faff to change.
As others have said though, BB and headset bearings last a decent while and a doddle to replace.
That will be an interesting test to see the results from Ben,cheers.With the left over half sets how about pitching them up against some cheapy brandX's or equivalent.
I've just replaced some expensive enduro bearings with some cheapo £3 BrandX's into my main pivots on my own bike as these are the ones that seems most vulnerable to water wear/corrode the quickest-now I'm not expecting great things from these but hope to be pleasantly surprised .
I hadn't heard of the Black Oxide Enduro bearings before this - are they new?Will be interesting to see how they perform.that double lip LLU sealing makes the most sense for frame bearings in my mind.
I presume the black oxide is the same hardening treatment you get on some headset bearings?
Id rather see grease ports on pivots tbh, i doubt anything will keep all the water and grit out, so why not just put shielded bearings in rather than sealed (they're behind a cap usually anyway) and flush them with grease.
RicB
So if this matrix stuff keeps muck out better than grease, the bearings will last longer for mtb use.
Isn't that exactly why they were developed? They're used for machines in the food industry, which have to be powerwaashed and sterilised frequently, so they have to keep out all the water (and salt, sterilising chemicals, and who knows what else).
Basically packing grease is bad (at higher speeds)
In say a 50hz motor, yes, as 2900 odd RPM is indeed high speed. What's the max a MTB wheel will do? 200rpm? (my in my head maths may be off SK!) 🙂
chakaping
As others have said though, BB and headset bearings last a decent while and a doddle to replace.
At €17-30 each, they're worth buying for a BB instead of Hope stainless, I'd have thought.
Anyone know the right size for a Hope 30mm BB?
This one is for BB30, so it's in the ballpark
https://www.bike24.com/p2283482.html?q=Solid+Oil+-+Groove+Ball+Bearing
Interesting, I need to replace a noisy BB bearing so this looks like just the ticket to me.
Any feedback on this?
Ben did you ever do a trial?
id love to be using these but they dont fit my bike 🙁
Ive got some 6001 bearings and a tub of putoline?
I have done tis with pedals - worked fine and still spinning freely some years later
Did anybody try these?
Looking at a new Bottom Bracket and now Hope BBs have a retail of £90 it's not much more for a Cane Creek BB using these bearings.
Thing is if Cane Creek think that they are so good why do they only have a 1 year guarantee for use
Just had a hellbender fitted to my 2015 spesh enduro. I'm a serial bearing killer (my shop use me as guinea pig for any new bearings/systems.......I still kill em). So far it's survived the two months of sitting in the bike room but as its drying out it'll be getting tested soon.
Thing is if Cane Creek think that they are so good why do they only have a 1 year guarantee for use
Gaurentees and product lifetimes aren't the same thing.
A 1 year guarentee is to cover stuff like the shell cracking due to a fault, or the bearings being damaged whilst being pressed in and failing prematurely.
That and I suspect the Venn diagram of people who jetwash their bikes and people who buy those bearings will probably overlap somewhat! So not having a long guarantee will probably actually increace their lifetime!
But Cane Creek warranty eeWings for 10 years and some of their headsets (which obviously contain bearings) for lifetime warranty. Chris King products are all lifetime warranties.
So Cane Creek are not adverse from offering long warranties on certain products but not on a bottom bracket which to quote:
provides unmatched bearing performance and reliability.
Pair our eeWings titanium crankset and Hellbender Neo bottom bracket, and a rider will experience the most robust crankset/bottom bracket combination in cycling history.
I've emailed Cane Creek to ask why
Chris King products are all lifetime warranties.
I was about to say no they don't having binned a King BB before when the bearings disintegrated in the past (they had no play despite being dry and rusty but the races seized tot he crank and pulled out when I was changing a chainring). But apparently they now do. Might be tempted back now, although £140 is almost three Hope BB's or 7 Gusset/Token/A.N.other generic ones, or 14 sets of SKF bearings!
I’ve emailed Cane Creek to ask why
I suspect because BB's have the hardest life of any component, they're in the firing line for spray off the front and back wheels, they get submerged, they can't be sealed/shielded like hub bearings, and take higher loads. Be interesting to see what they say though.