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The magazine probably is representative of the population who do cycle.
I’m struggling to think of any black riders on the current UCI XCO & DH tour.
Isn't Eliot Jackson back racing UCI DH for the [b][url= https://www.pinkbike.com/news/giant-factory-off-road-team-prepares-for-2018.html ]Giant Factory Team[/url][/b] this year?
As a person of colour (I'm British ****stani), I don't really care what colour the person is on the cover of the magazine. I'm 40 yrs old but a beginner at mountain biking and read the mag for the articles and advice.
When I was younger my friends and I all had bikes but never really knew that there was actually a sport behind it. It was all cricket and football for us! Our parents didn't really encourage any kind of sports so biking went last in our priorities.
We'll probably see asian pro riders in my kids generation as we do have the time and knowledge to take our kids out for bike rides and show them videos of guys doing gnarly shit. Also my generation is a little more chilled out than my parents generation who wanted their kids to be doctors and engineers (and not pro sports people of any kind!)
AK
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"From what I remember from the human geography modules in my degree, there’s a proven lack of non-white people in the countryside full stop,"
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Sure, but what proportion of mountain bikers actually live in the countryside?
On STW the rider's often not really the focus of the shot anyway, it's a "riding shot" not a "rider shot", I'm not sure the identity of the rider is actually that important. This might be baseless, but one thing I think happens across the sector is that women on the cover of a bike mag are usually pros- Rachel Atherton, Tracy Moseley, Manon Carpenter and Katy Winton more often than not. Whereas dudes tend to be just your random magazine dudes.
It can't just be radness of shot- that's got to play a part, but anyone can look rad with the right shot, I'm very unrad but I still have photos where I look bloody awesome. But I guess that by and large, there are more rad male civilians out there than there are rad female civilians, and the better female riders are maybe more likely to make the jump to pro? Because skills wise it's definitely easier, a friend of mine races world cups and she's pretty much in the same class of riding as I am, whereas male racers are in another world compared to me.
So is it recognition factor? Let's take it for granted that most mtb mag readers are dudes, so maybe the assumption is we look at other dudes and make a connection regardless if it's Gee Atherton or Chipps. But with women they should be kent faces? But then look at personality-led ads these days, there are a lot of female riders in those. Are advertisers cannier than mag designers?45
You see if I was a non white person and I flicked through a mag in the supermarket I would care not one jot if there was a person of my colour in the mag or in the front
How the **** can you possibly assert that when you aren't (a non-white person)? How could you possibly know that if you had grown up and lived in a society where people who looked like you were rarely represented at all in popular media, and when they were were almost always represented by a stereotype* that you would not care at all about that fact? Easy to not see racism in all its forms as not being a problem when you are not the victim of it, isn't it?**
*It's slowly started to change but for a long time if a brown skinned family moved in on a popular soap opera you were pretty much guaranteed a juicy arranged / forced marriage storyline would follow along shortly. Black? Drug dealer and / or rapper. Gay? HIV storyline approaches... etc. etc. etc..
**I'm a privately educated home-owning heterosexual middle class white man, so not ticking many diversity boxes. The only time I get to experience being in an "out" group is when I get on my bike.
Eh? No-one is saying 50/50 split. The question is why not on a single cover so far. I think we have established the reason for that (core rider group being predominately white male) so we have now moved on to saying the magazine could help promote diversity by representing riders from other under represented groups.
If occasional positive discrimination is needed to achieve this then good.
Just because positive discrimination includes the word discrimination, it doesn’t mean it is a bad thing.
In my opinion discrimination in any form is a bad thing, regardless of polarity.
Got to love a good middle aged middle class white man diversity discussion
On what forum is that happening ?
30 years ago cycling in the UK was a much more niche sport and leisure activity; one which was more the preserve of the less well off. Arguably what changed that were the Olympic successes beginning with Chris Boardman and the arrival of mountain bikes/mountain biking.
If anything would be likely to get more people from minority groups riding*, it would be seeing their role models riding bikes.
* other than seeing one of their particular minority winning an Olympic medal etc. (which is a chicken and egg situation: by the law of averages enough of them need to take up the sport first to have a prospect of such success).
Maybe there's scope for STW to have a regular article akin to Top Gear's 'Star in a reasonably priced car', where a sporting or entertainment celebrity from a minority group is invited to go on a mountain bike ride and is provided with a bike and the necessary kit. It's possible that the likes of Mo Farah, Idris Elba or similar big names might be willing to particpate without a fee if it is understood that STW are not making much if any profit from the articles (but are doing it because they think it's a good thing to encourage others into the sport). By the same token, maybe some of the bike manufacturers would be willing to provide the celeb with a free bike for the article (especially if they are a big manufacturer that would value the PR and can see the potential for such promotional activity to draw large numbers of potential new customers from minority groups into the sport).
There's a "SINGLETRACK" magazine. shocker!!!!!
perhaps nobody in singletrack towers has heard of these lads. Perhaps an article by fthem on the forum or in print
Random musing: In 6 years I've never seen anyone in the forum say they're gay.
There's one gay of each gender that spring to mind.
In 6 years I’ve never seen anyone in the forum say they’re gay.
Really? I can't see why they should but I can think of a couple off the top of my head,.
Anyway - what about more kids on the covers? I bet there are loads of kids riding bikes and they're not represented very well.
What about gay kids?
Anyhow, just more of a thought I had that never see it discussed or mentioned by posters. Unrelated to this I guess. Carry on 🙂
In 6 years I’ve never seen anyone in the forum say they’re gay
How many have you seen say they are heterosexual? [rolls eyes]
There’s one gay of each gender that spring to mind.
How many is that exactly?
The more you scratch it, diverse it gets...
Is that my coat?
One day this place will disappear up its own arse.
It must be like sea fishing. I have yet to see a 'non white' person sea fishing.
Lots & LOTS of east europeans when it's macky bashing season though.
Edit, I stand corrected, my mates wife is from Thailand & she's been fishing with him on Seaham pier.
Anyway, why no decent prog rock on R1 Xtra?
And the lack of indoor bowls people of colour is really getting to me .
grrrrr! I want to kill a giraffe! (Just joking- I only want to eat one. Someone else can do the crappy bit.)
How many gingers have been on the cover? I expect that are far more ginger mountain bikers than there are from other ethnic minorities. There should be more gingers on the cover!
I personally don't believe that the magazine needs to or should promote ethnic diversity. It is a mountain bike magazine. It's about mountain biking for mountain bikers. I want to see inspirational photo's not a tick box exercise in covering every minority or whatever.
Never mind the people, where is the bike diversity? It’s always bloody mountain bikes. What’s wrong with a road bike, unicycle, trike or penny farthing. It’s the bike equivalent of racism and it needs to stop.
Plus in recent years since the magazine has become more gnarr to the power of rad, what's with all the Body English? Talk about lack of diversity, I'm surprised our friends from north of the border haven't boycotted the magazine for that reason alone....
I want to see inspirational photo’s not a tick box exercise in covering every minority or whatever.
Well said.
I was going to say, 'who gives a shite'
But obviously a few do. But not me.
What about gay giraffes? I don’t see any representation for them in the magazine. Yet I know they do exist!
How many have you seen say they are heterosexual? [rolls eyes]
I'll be generous and assume you're not just trying to be a clever-dick.
To explain what's in my head, it's a two part thing I guess.
1. I've seen plenty of threads with "I think I drink too much/I'm being bullied at work/I've got mental health issues/my marriage is falling apart", etc. All a bit not the 'norm'. However the thread is one way of getting people to discuss, often with a decent and informative tone.
2. I have seen race mentioned in various guises, and then people pop up to say "hey, I'm not white", such as in this thread. Again, an opportunity for it to get discussed and opinions informed.
Just never seen anything similar regarding about being gay, that's all.
EDT: I've just realised that this all sounds a bit like I'm trying to come out 🙂
It’s okay bear, there are no closets in the STW forums. Just lots of bikes, a couple of giraffes and too many white folks!
Is anyone else really hoping to see a Giraffe on next month's front cover? We the readers demand it!
Can we redefine the term coloured when applied to humans?
Surely the only people who can really be termed coloured are redheads, the rest are just pasty or shady colours.
A redhead has blue eyes (usually), pink skin mottled with brown and sometimes greenish spots depending on sun exposure, and blue veins showing through the bits the sun doesn't reach.
That's colour. 🙂
Redheads? Awful things.
perhaps nobody in singletrack towers has heard of these lads. Perhaps an article by fthem on the forum or in print
Cycling Plus did a big feature on Brothers on Bikes last year - was a really good read 👍
I can't help feeling you are compensating for something by posting that photo.
This is not the only hobby/ magazine where this discussion is relevant. Not by a long chalk.
I was a metal detectorist for many years (yes, the series does nail the hobby very well! 😃) and only ever saw one asian gentleman in all that time, including rallys where hundreds of people attended.
I mention it just to point out that biking and Singletrack are only part of a bigger picture.
there’s a proven lack of non-white people in the countryside full stop,
I can vouch for that living in New Forest for last 20 years I have never seen a non-white person riding off road. I think there may even be a bye law that doesn't allow non-white people but I will need to check.
Special case though as you would only ride in the New Forest if you lived there as the riding is so dull that if you are going to drive somewhere to go for a ride you wouldn't go to the New Forest which would discount the town/city dwellers.
I thought MTB was the new Golf for the white middle class male who wants to get outdoors.
You are thinking of road cycling mate.
Erm
I thought MTB was the new Golf for the white middle class male who wants to get outdoors.
Michelle Wie has just phoned and said that you're a sexist as well as a racist 😉
A friend of a friend is a gay, black and female cyclist, and I saw her riding Brighton Big Dog XC race a few years ago. All boxes ticked! Non-white riders do seem rare, I have a couple in my wider riding circle but that’s close to 100 people. At least one gay rider in that group, there could be more but we’re Brighton so it’s not exactly a big deal. And some women.
I had a conversation about this with a British Indian friend some years back when I coaxed him on an XC ride and he said that sport and outdoor pursuits were never encouraged when he was growing up, and that doing well academically being considered far more important.
I once lived in the Caribbean, and had a child born there, and suspect that no one would have cared for one second if a white European person was featured in the hospital literature. Heck, it wouldn’t have dawned on us to care either.
It's all very well to play the race blindness card, but we are not living in a post-racist world. That's why positive discrimination is necessary, to push the balance back to the middle. And by middle, I don't mean equal numbers of non-white and white, I mean everyone having the same available exposure and inspiration.
I had a conversation about this with a British Indian friend some years back when I coaxed him on an XC ride and he said that sport and outdoor pursuits were never encouraged when he was growing up, and that doing well academically being considered far more important.
I watched something on youtube just the other day but can't find it again about some Indian youths who fell in love with kayaking after seing tourists on their local river. They started of with inner tubes and learned things themselves and spent a lot of time working for local outdoor holiday companies in exchange for training and use of equipment. Eventually they had enough experience and money to do the formal courses and they now work all over the world doing guiding and perfoming safety duties etc. Was quite inspiring to see where they came from and despite the odds being against them made it into a world that must have been totally alien to all their family and fellow villagers.