[Closed] Singletrack Magazine and diversity

Also a disturbing lack of Giraffes.

Middle aged white male for when someone starts totting up the demographic (or we could have a funky poll over there >>). I suspect I'll be in the winning group. Care to guess on the job, the car, the beverage preferences, the bike? There will be no prizes.

Rorschach

Also a disturbing lack of Giraffes.

What a weird thing to say. Never seen a Giraffe out whilst riding but met plenty of different ethnicities and genders out on the trails.

Part of me wonders if it matters (and I stress, [i]part[/i] of me). Britain and the West in general is pretty diverse - a fact that I am grateful for - but sometimes I don’t think that proportional representation is a necessity.

I once lived in the Caribbean, and had a child born there, and suspect that no one would have cared for one second if a white European person was featured in the hospital literature. Heck, it wouldn’t have dawned on us to care either.

I quite often ride a giraffe. Seriously 😉

Never seen a Giraffe out whilst riding but met plenty of different ethnicities and genders out on the trails.

But here is the thing, I haven't. It is strikingly rare to see a person from a minority group out riding. It is also rare to see pro riders who are not white.

The question raised by the Op though is still valid as media should promote diversity

You're obviously Giraffest then Steve.

White males are over-represented in the sport as a whole.

There are definitely good riders who aren't old white men near STWs offices - one of the mechanics at Blazing Saddles is really fast from what I remember.

They seem to do a bit for women, but more in the form of aggressive, militant web articles than just having 50/50 men and women in the photos.

Increasing numbers of women or non-white people in the mag wouldn't be representative of the riding scene as a whole, but it'd give encouragement and provide something more relatable for them. It's not a bad idea.

Yep about time they were on the cover...

i've often mused over the lack of BAME folk when out on the trails, and wonder why? Same goes for ladies... seen a few over the years,but in the main it's white men of a certain vintage...

i don't think anyone is suggesting for one moment that BAME or ladies aren't welcome, nor encouraged for that matter, but surely the mag is appealing to a demographic... one that i fall into. (white, male, 40's, balding, etc)

guess what, i bet GT is full of gay lads and lasses, and i reckon there'll be a lot of your female Asian types in Asian Bride... and yet I've actually been to a couple of Asian weddings!!

Well I personally know four mountain bikers whom you might characterise as "non white" and I wouldn't say I know masses of mountain bikers, at a complete guess it's less than 100.

Rorschach

You’re obviously Giraffest then Steve.

Wow. Still going with the equal chance of meeting a giraffe vs. a non-white European on the trails then?

But here is the thing, I haven’t.

Come and have a ride around Gisburn or Llandegla or the West Pennine moors. All welcome.

Or maybe you're over thinking it a bit too much and I just really like giraffes.They are like splotchy long necked horsies.

(To save any further confusion.....I do really like giraffes.HtH)

I occasionally ride with a 6ft 4 Rasta, an Afro American and a Japanese couple. (We even have a gay!!)

From what I remember from the human geography modules in my degree, there's a proven lack of non-white people in the countryside full stop, and that leads them into hobbies they can do where they live, which isn't mountain biking/rock climbing/hiking etc. People tend to live with people like themselves, and so the problem perpetuates.

Giraffes have the same number of bones in their necks as humans. The bones are just longer.

I think that whilst diverse role models can be good to get people into the sport, it's a bit chicken and egg, and it is difficult to see how you'd get 50/50 gender and representative other minorities on the cover without significant (positive) discrimination.

I suspect the level of participation is more indicative of society as a whole (white middle class men have the money for toys, and boys are brought up to like mechanical things that fit in with equipment sports like cycling/MTB). Fix that, give it 20-30 years or more, and you'll see a representative sample of british people on the cover of the mag.

I hate the phrase "person of colour" surely by now we are all just humans. Have any "persons of colour" contacted the magazine to offer a story or to lead one of the staff on their local ride & could have their picture taken. Im sure if they did the editorial team would judge the ride on its suitability for a cover shot or pics in the magazine regardless of what "colour" the rider is.

I will say that even though the shop I work in is in a multicultural area 98% of all the riders we see are white so I guess that translates to the amount of possible riders the mag has to choose from.

I'd like to think that the ST team wouldn't deliberately seek out a "person of colour" just to balance the books and gain kudos. Stories & pics should be in on merit not to tick a box

I had low hopes for this thread but it's put a smile on my face already.

FWIW I see plenty of women out on the trails, and an increasing (though still small) number of non-white riders.

+1 for more representation and fewer storm-in-a-teacup articles

Op are you for real? no straight up are you trolling or serious?
I don't see it as an issue at all.

Certainly not a Troll. I'm not certain why you would think that.

I was just hoping to point out the fact to the editorial team. 0/118 seems a poor effort / lack of awareness.

Male + pale = stale. I agree always good to see diversity and representation! 🙂

From what I remember from the human geography modules in my degree, there’s a proven lack of non-white people in the countryside full stop, and that leads them into hobbies they can do where they live, which isn’t mountain biking/rock climbing/hiking etc. People tend to live with people like themselves, and so the problem perpetuates.

There is/was a National Parks initiative called the Mosaic Project which aimed to take young people from ethnically diverse inner city communities into the outdoors for pretty much those reasons. The idea was to make people aware of the outdoors because the communities they came from had no history of involvement in those activities.

From memory they took individuals and groups out into the National Parks with the aim of those people both becoming involved in the outdoors themselves and inspiring others to do the same.

I thought it was a really positive, worthwhile idea, though it took a lot of online flak from the 'so what, there's nothing stopping them getting outdoors, why should we spend public money on them' mob.

Seems to have worked reasonably well too, see the case studies in the link above.

I'm sure there's an Australian working for the mag.

And there must be an American or 2 judging by the "Super excited" etc phrases often used.

That's enough for me.

Very surprised people spend their time thinking about such things tbh. I bet Chipps hasn't and now has his head in his hands with worry and concern at how his life's gone.

it is difficult to see how you’d get 50/50 gender and representative other minorities on the cover without significant (positive) discrimination.

Eh? No-one is saying 50/50 split. The question is why not on a single cover so far. I think we have established the reason for that (core rider group being predominately white male) so we have now moved on to saying the magazine could help promote diversity by representing riders from other under represented groups.

If occasional positive discrimination is needed to achieve this then good.

Just because positive discrimination includes the word discrimination, it doesn't mean it is a bad thing.

Did somebody say giraffe ?

I hate the phrase “person of colour” surely by now we are all just humans.

I was pale blue on Friday night at football training. It was baltic.

Well said Frank.

Rorschach earlier..

You see if I was a non white person and I flicked through a mag in the supermarket I would care not one jot if there was a person of my colour in the mag or in the front, I would be more interested in the content. BUT I am prepared to conceed that I am unable truly to comment as I am indeed white.
Isn't it a case of white people raising these issues thinking non-white people are concerned when in fact nobody cares?

Isn’t it a case of white people raising these issues thinking non-white people are concerned when in fact nobody cares?

Possibly, but as a white person dismissing the issue on the basis of an assertion that if you weren't white you wouldn't care about it, you've kind of made yourself the pot calling the kettle something or other.

guess what, i bet GT is full of gay lads and lasses

I've been there loads, and unless they are all dogging in the bushes I can safely say glentress isn't full of gay blokes

First thing I pay attention at is the composition of the cover. Is that catching my eye? Is that well shot picture? Did anybody tampered with it beyond necesity?

Then I can see the scenery. Then I can see a bike.

And I do not give a flying monkey who is on the cover. Afro-Caribbean-Trans-Gender-Jew-with-Asian-heritage or Martian, or Panda...

As long as it is good cover I do not really care...

... but that's probably because I'm biased middle-aged white, hetrosexual male with strong Christian cutural and social background...

So unfashionable these days...

Cheers!

I.

Just because positive discrimination includes the word discrimination, it doesn’t mean it is a bad thing.

And just because it includes the word positve, doesn't mean it's a good thing either.

guess what, i bet GT is full of gay lads and lasses

that's cathkin.

Just because positive discrimination includes the word discrimination, it doesn’t mean it is a bad thing.

Certain organisations that did for a while engage in positive discrimination would disagree. It certainly causes tension. I think there's a difference between encouragement and discrimination though.

I wouldn't say 0/118 was that far off representative of the ethnic diversity in the sport - certainly of the MTBers I've met very few aren't white (or at least wouldn't appear white in a cover shot).

I'm sure there have been women on the cover, although as I've only had a couple of issues I can't check.

As an example, however, the track league attracts a diverse range of ages, from schoolchildren to 70+, and whilst probably not 50/50 on gender is pretty close, as well as having a visible number of non-white participants. I'm not sure how MTB can come closer to that - I think in a lot of ways, the velodrome is more accessible (cheaper bikes, less maintenance, accessible at a council run facility with hire bikes), and perhaps that's why.

Anyway, it's a great mag and I'd subscribe if I thought I'd have time to read it.

Got to love a good middle aged middle class white man diversity discussion 😉

I've never met nor seen anyone other than a white out on the trails, at BPW, Afan, etc... Hell, even 500+ at SDW last year for the BHF ride, i don't recall anything other than white males/females.

I'm struggling to think of any black riders on the current UCI XCO & DH tour.  I'm struggling to think of any black mountain bikers I've ridden with, apart from one Asian guy.

However, in our fully welcoming, non-discriminatory club that is the mighty Bogtrotters, we've got loads of women.  Part of me wonders whether there's more women than men.  Fair to say that they aren't just dragged along by their other halves either..some seriously hardcore women riders in our club.

Genuine diversity develops naturally, I think. When I was a kid there were virtually no black ice hockey players in the NHL. Today I can think of 4 superstars just of the top of my head. It is a real delight to witness the growth in appeal of the sport. Hopefully, with time, MTBing will go the same way. But a cover or two on STW won’t do it.

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Very few out there at the top level these lads a cool though (and ranked above gb men at xco) would be a perfect opportunity for stw to get in touch with them especially as there will be media heading out to Lthose for the enduro there this week