[Closed] Singletrack Mag - Lightweight Issue AGAIN (Rant content)

to be fair, there's only so much you can write about bikes.

So you missed some great articles based on the cover?

:o)

So you missed some great articles based on the cover?

haha guess so! ^_^

I'd rush out and try and buy one, it's not too late to correct your mistake

;o)

i'm sorry to sound so negative - my other main gripe is personal, i.e. i don't have a lot of money for luxuries like magazines! it's made me uber critical about all purchases 🙂

i like the mag but that comment on twitter is a shocker man. 👿

Can you honestly expect it to be "good" from your own perspective every issue ?

There are some issues when I read to cover to cover in the first day and find it leaves me cold. there are other issues where I read it cover to cover and its great. The magazine has changed over the years though (found all my old copies the other day) but then its going to everything evolves.
That is with the exception of MBUK which stays exactly the same yearin year out and I still can't read it !

Either way its better value than what else is out there and gives me somethign to dream about when stuck in another dreary hotel with work or staring at the Road bike wishing I lived near proper hills that I could justify getting the nobbly tired bike out for after work !

Lights test is a funny one. New lights tend to come out for the start of the winter, for obvious reasons. The bike industry isn’t super ahead of itself so the mags tend to get there test lights days before they can be bought*. So you have 4 options:
1. Review last years lights.
2. Write a review really quickly with limited use of the product (lots of mags do this, the results aren’t really representative of real world use!)
3. Review the latest products a couple of months after the ideal time for users.
4. A combination of the above.
I night ride all year round. #3, the Singletrack option, makes sense to me!

* As an illustration, I had a really early prototype of the Diablo at OSMM, a couple of months later you could buy them.

The content of the mag isnt the issue, its that rant at paying customers end of!

Jazz improvisation - terrible article, sorry
I liked the rest of it.

what was said on twitter?

what was said on twitter?

[url= http://twitter.com/singletrackmark ]Vituperative vitriol[/url]

I'm quite taken with the "readers' issue" where folk on here chip in all the articles for one issue of the mag. So Mark, Chipps etc, what about it? If nothing else you guys get at least some time off (I know it still has to be produced etc), and we get to "live the dream" as mountain bike journalists for a while.

As for the quality of ST, I've been getting it since issue 1. Not every issue has been brilliant, but it's still the one mag I'll sit down and spend ages reading. With MBR I've generally finished in about 15 minutes.

scottyjohn - Member
The content of the mag isnt the issue, its that rant at paying customers end of!

Indeed. Wonder how happy the ST team would be if the "forum cocks" just went elsewhere and took their per-view and click-through ad revenue with them?

shaggy - Member
Lights test is a funny one. New lights tend to come out for the start of the winter, for obvious reasons. The bike industry isn’t super ahead of itself so the mags tend to get there test lights days before they can be bought*. So you have 4 options:
1. Review last years lights.
2. Write a review really quickly with limited use of the product (lots of mags do this, the results aren’t really representative of real world use!)
3. Review the latest products a couple of months after the ideal time for users.
4. A combination of the above.
I night ride all year round. #3, the Singletrack option, makes sense to me!

* As an illustration, I had a really early prototype of the Diablo at OSMM, a couple of months later you could buy them.

Maybe this is some of the problem ,, it's down to time scales,, a mag takes time to write produce print and distribut ,, there are now so many websites doing what the mags did but with instant results,, ,,

one of the websites I visit everyday is http://twentynineinches.com/ ok it's niche but it's what I want to read about, you proberly couldnt sell a mag with niche content,

but being net based they can have tests and info up instantly and no premier user payments (yet)

on the plus side STW is the only mountain bike mag I buy, but not every month

Dave - Moderator

I'd rush out and try and buy one, it's not too late to correct your mistake

;o)

[url= http://www.bicyclesmithy.co.uk/ ]Bicycle Smithy[/url] in Hazel Grove are giving away old copies for free, you might be able to pick one up there. They are really nice chaps who sell good stuff. I don't work fo them BTW, but if you mention me Jon will like me and and I might get a discoutn 🙂

I stopped reading ST Mag about issue 44, still subscribe as Mrs NBT seems to enjoy it. I've sent in articles and photos, still waiting to see them appear in print if they're good enough (I freely accept that writing for a living is bloody hard and my stuff isn't as good as the stuff the regular writers come up with)

What I said on twitter was out of order and I apologise. It was meant for my facebook profile, which is slightly more private but would still have been innapropriate even there.

This issue was a very tough one to produce and without exception every member of staff pulled out all the stops to make it happen. Seeing that kind of effort from everyone made me rather more protective over this issue than i should have been. Critical opinion is part and parcel of what we do. We expect it and we do, despite appearances sometimes, listen to it all and it is always reflected on and discussed in the office. We are our own biggest critics sometimes and we always have a post mortem on every issue as soon as we get it back from the printers. Personally, the magazine means a huge amount to me and I often let my passion for what we do and what we have achieved get the better of me.

Again..
I'm sorry

I'm going to go get a drink now and go to bed. At some point over the weekend i will ride a bike and it will all feel better.

Singletrack is head and shoulders above the other mags.

I only just discovered it recently and was kinda taken by the way it's such a different approach to the other tired trash/advertising machinery..

add to that the quite abrasive but still just about scraping interesting and articulate forum and the deal was struck in my mind..

If the good folk running the mag aren't allowed to make a few crass comments and spit a few venomous utterances of their own from time to time then what is the point?

Are they expected to sit above the rest of the forum upon lofty ivory towers... setting a regal and dignified example to the rowdy twunts below?

I'm not really a great buyer of magazines ... but singletrack will get my money for as long as they continue to provide an interesting alternative to the other tosh..

I think we should get some Team Brant and Team Mark t-shirts printed 😀

Takes courage to say "I was wrong. I apologise".

Fair play.

So how about this Readers' Issue?

well said mark, if anything it was amusing and I think we all realise how much it means to you. I think anything you put out in a public forum you have to be prepared to take a little bit of criticism though, you can't expect everybody to like it all the time and with singletrack I think your fortunate that the majority do like it almost all of the time! Its a lot better received than most so chill out when you get the odd, its a bit thin this month gripe!

fair do's mark.
most folks on here think most folk on here are cocks 😆

Most folk on here are cocks.

Halifax ride in the latest issue? Might make me want to go and buy it.

Best mag out there at the moment? Performance VW I reckon 😉

😐

it's like the old singletrack days during the split with Shaun and the arguing about camera equipment

Don't mention Shaun! I mentioned him once but I think I got away with it

Mark looks a little like the bear from Bo Selecta in his twitter pic to me. Damn beer goggles.

Nice apology Mark. You are the Tiger Woods of the mountain bike world 😉

It's still the best MTB mag, ST does by and large walk the line nicely between the fun of MBUK and the flowery **** of Dirtrag, MBR and WhatMTB are just boring.

That said, I think Mark et al are facing a challenge to keep it fresh, there's a few new contributors so maybe that will refresh things a bit, need to keep looking for new perspectives.

readers issue is a $hit idea and would never get printed because everyone would be arguing about what goes in it - probably a load of opinionated waffle....maybe?

good mag. I like it. Good to see a bit of life at STW towers.
[url= http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=singletrack+mark&word2=Brant+Richards ]Things looking up for mark too[/url]

It's still the best MTB mag, ST does by and large walk the line nicely between the fun of MBUK and the flowery **** of Dirtrag, MBR and WhatMTB are just boring.

+1

that sums it up for me

you think, jimbo: 😉
http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=singletrack+mark&word2=Brant+on-one

Mark - Resident Grumpy
What I said on twitter was out of order and I apologise. It was meant for my facebook profile, which is slightly more private but would still have been innapropriate even there.

This issue was a very tough one to produce and without exception every member of staff pulled out all the stops to make it happen. Seeing that kind of effort from everyone made me rather more protective over this issue than i should have been. Critical opinion is part and parcel of what we do. We expect it and we do, despite appearances sometimes, listen to it all and it is always reflected on and discussed in the office. We are our own biggest critics sometimes and we always have a post mortem on every issue as soon as we get it back from the printers. Personally, the magazine means a huge amount to me and I often let my passion for what we do and what we have achieved get the better of me.

Again..
I'm sorry

I'm going to go get a drink now and go to bed. At some point over the weekend i will ride a bike and it will all feel better.

Its all very good apologising but i know for certain if i said anything like that on a forum/twitter/facebook which defaced our companys name as well as slagging off our customers i would be at very least majorly disciplined and potentially even sacked.

in a world where every penny counts this is not the attitude to take or show and when plenty of your customers tell you about the same issue ( regardless of how tiring you worked, like i would guess most of us do on a daily basis ) then you NEED to sit up and listen and realise there is an issue. You guys are all lucky to be in a job which i would guess alot of us on this forum would love to do, so please appreciate it and take feedback on board

That is all

most folks on here think most folk on here are cocks

i once slagged the mag off on here
it ended in a conversation with someone.
i was shown the error of my ways................ 8)
but since that conversation the mag DOES seem to have got a fair bit better and more interesting to me.
to be honest, the rest of the uk's mtb mags are ****ing pish.

duntmatter - Member

most folks on here think most folk on here are cocks

needs to be here: http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/stw-phrases-youd-like-to-see-on-a-t-shirt/page/4#post-1239822

+ 1.... that actually illicited an actual real genuine lol

One unguarded remark on some stupid social networking site and suddenly its all high moral ground. It'll all blow over by tomorrow and be forgotten....or at least it should be.

Not sure that ST has any similarities with MBUK?!
Dirt & ST rule the roost however of the others I think mbuk beats them, that's saying something, but recently it's not been that bad.
Yes some articles are not going to please some, you can't please everyone though.
Maybe a slight over reaction from all concerned including Mark but you can't really knock him for his defence of his and others work towards the mag. Would you say to a bike manufacturer that his bikes are $hit? You're going to get a reaction...

You guys are all lucky to be in a job which i would guess alot of us on this forum would love to do

you serious?

if you don't like the mag, don't buy it. simple

Instead of griping on here why not put some effort into giving some money for sport relief and make a difference that counts to somebodies life? Not one to usually give or to preach about charity but seeing children dying of malaria is sad.

chameleon78

just 1 question..................have you got kids??

I was going to write this really long boring response but couldn't be arsed lucky staff at the mag don't do that.

I guess you can't please everyone if you don't like the mag don't buy it but it works out at about 50p a week.

Any supplier offering a full refund can't be that bad really.

Oh and Shaggy any chance of a hot x bun orange juice and bog roll test just for a bit of real world balance........

Yes, a 4 week old daughter, which probably made me feel so lucky

you serious?

if you don't like the mag, don't buy it. simple

i am and i dont and for the record, you as a cyclist wouldn;t like to be in a job where you test and ride products to do with the sport/hobby that you love doing. If you dont then you my friend need to find some different hobby/sport to do

Its all very good apologising but i know for certain if i said anything like that on a forum/twitter/facebook which [b]defaced[/b] our companys name as well as slagging off our customers i would be at very least majorly disciplined and potentially even sacked.

Er, I don't think you mean "deafced", do you son?

And Mark is the publisher; the owner. If he wants to do a Ratner, he can.

Which I don't think he did. It's the nature of criticism that one tends only to hear the negative stuff, which is why this thread paints a worse picture than the reality probably is.

As it is, though I have been a critic in the past - and have set my reasons out ad nauseam previously - I like the feel of somewhething where the producers of the work acknowlegde there is no padding. Of course, if the standard of writing is up to scratch, I shall enjoy it, though I am not prepared to judge it by heft alone.

Blimey, I haven't had time to read the mag yet ... got a bit of trolling to do on here first 😉

It's a magazine FFS!!!! To quote MBR "get out and ride"

chameleon78 - Member
Yes, a 4 week old daughter, which probably made me feel so lucky

nice one.... 8)
so concentrate on looking after your own, and dont preach to people about giving to charity.

"get out and ride"

No. Its midnight and pissing it down.

Ton - it was a suggestion not a preach

Jamie - pussy 😉

Er, I don't think you mean "deafced", do you son?

And Mark is the publisher; the owner. If he wants to do a Ratner, he can.

Which I don't think he did. It's the nature of criticism that one tends only to hear the negative stuff, which is why this thread paints a worse picture than the reality probably is.

Yawn

you as a cyclist wouldn;t like to be in a job where you test and ride products to do with the sport/hobby that you love doing

to be honest no. to me a hobby is just that. If you painted for a living, would you want to come home and do the same again??

raddoggair..
I really don't want to get drawn into this.. BUT

you are taking issue with how a bloke is dealing with a customer..
in effect.. you are 'in a mood' cos someone is behaving in a way that you would disapprove of if you were the blokes boss... (which you're not)

OR.. you are in a mood cos you wouldn't like to be treated this way of you were the customer in question..

I'm really sorry.. BUT.. horses for courses... I walk into some bars and get a polite reception from the staff.. I walk into others and get called a prick cos my attitude isn't the type that they welcome into their establishment.. that's life.. freedom of choice etc etc etc.

your attitude is very victorian.

everyone has a bad day at work sometimes. no?

you never do yer bugger 😉

raddoggair..
I really don't want to get drawn into this.. BUT

you are taking issue with how a bloke is dealing with a customer..
in effect.. you are 'in a mood' cos someone is behaving in a way that you would disapprove of if you were the blokes boss... (which you're not)

OR.. you are in a mood cos you wouldn't like to be treated this way of you were the customer in question..

I'm really sorry.. BUT.. horses for courses... I walk into some bars and get a polite reception from the staff.. I walk into others and get called a prick cos my attitude isn't the type that they welcome into their establishment.. that's life.. freedom of choice etc etc etc.

your attitude is very victorian.

victorian.. comedy, nice one!!

i'm glad to hear though that you feel that this is acceptable to do to your custom. If Mark had sent a personal e-mail to the said customer then fair enough, answer his queries and feedback on what his expecations are. The fact of the matter he didn't, he chose to express it on the biggest cycling forum in europe ( i think ) and also via twitter.
My attitude isn't victorian, its simple common sense and decency.

For the record, when you walk into these bars where people and staff call you pricks do you return ( on a monthly basis). The answer obviously is no, because as people we expect a standard level of attitude and service. That bar would lose your custom like this mag would lose custom.

I agree with that, showing that level of contempt for customers isn't really on. If a few disgruntled middle managers on the internet upset you that much then you should try working in a call centre!

I was really thinking about canceling my subscription when the mag arrived yesterday, you just convinced me

I think this has been great; its very easy to find faults, and the net makes it easy to complain. It's often less easy for companies or individuals to defend themselves, and sometimes you just have to call people cocks.
I think Marks rant was great, and his apology was a good one too.

STW; made by real people....

Crikey.

The OP simply said in terms to understand

Last year i paid £5 for a 10oz sirlion steak. This year i paid £7 for a 8oz sirlion steak.

paying more for the same on a lot this year though..
oh wait thats not the same is it... 😆

Well i'll still buy it. Head and shoulders above what the others produce. ST is actually a mag that I can read and then re-read. I judge a mag on bath time. I can usually class ST as making my skin prune like and cold, and i aint a slow reader.

Keep up the good work guys, but just take the criticism a little more light heartedly.

If I flew off the handle like that every time someone criticized me or my guys, I'd be in ****in Jupiter's orbit.

haha you can't hide on the internet 😀
.
wish I could call my clients cocks
if I had any that were of course
they're all lovely
:waves:

aye.. maybe I'm wrong.. I'm not a businessman.. but I personally do not begrudge one or two angry outbursts about some sarky comments..

have we actually found evidence that the outbursts weren't tongue in cheek yet?
baaaahhh.. who gives a monkeys..

for the record.. you speaketh silly nonsense about what you presume me to do with regard to a 'standard level of attitude and service' in bars.

in that case my man, enjoy the beer 😛

for the record.. you speaketh silly nonsense about what you presume me to do with regard to a 'standard level of attitude and service' in bars.

this what i thought, that'd you'd frequent bars where they call you 'prick'

I'd be shocked if I walked into my local and the landlord didn't call me something a heck of a lot worse than a prick.. 🙄

I hope he's had his headset fixed by tomorrows ride too

I hope he's had his headset fixed by tomorrows ride too

I suppose one day i should read the magazine.

Raddogair - a bit ott. man behaves like a cock then apologises. end of the matter.

The great thing about this thread is the metaphors. What with steaks, microwaves and others. Hilarious.

Someone exercised their freedom of speech. Mark responded ... vociferously ... (being generous) but later had the good grace to rescind his comments and apologise. Hopefully this should draw to an end a matter that (as a collection of mountain bike enthusiasts) we could best describe as internecine.

Raddogair - a bit ott. man behaves like a cock then apologises. end of the matter.

Your right TJ you prick.

Wait..

I'm sorry

We're cool then !!!

oh dear PSML @ radoggair!!!!!!

havent really sat down to read the mag yet but I agree its one I tend to sit down with after the kids go to bed with a beer and enjoy bit like a good book. TBH I think the mag is a victim of its own sucess we get excellent so often bloody brilliant seems a drop even when its miles a head of the other mags.

Let's end this thread now it's getting tres boring.

STW does fill a niche/gap nicely.

Just wish they'd be more scathing/direct sometimes on product reviews. The commencal where they swapped out the Mazz for the Fox's on the test- I'd have preferred 'what an utter pile of shit'. 8)

Plus theres a gap to report on- kit for mountain bikers on a budget.

Brit Army etc kit is designed for outdoor use right? So why dont we use it more for mountain biking? A mag recently ran a mammoth winter jacket test where the winner was over £250 FFS.

I bought a Brit Army Goretex/DPM jacket (brand new- thanks Skiprat) for £25.

Why spend £100+ on colourful pieces of shit? Not everyone earns 60k+

I wonder what would have happened if any of us had called Mark a cock?

Double standards on the STW forum? Noooooo never.....

Singletrack is by far and away the best MTB mag.
I have some suggestions which would improve it for me.

Bring back Bike Porn

Readers bikes- just pics or a little article about the bike/rider too.

Quick 1 page trail guides: A photo & a map with a loop from an STW writer or sent in by a reader.

Change Long Term tests slightly- the frames picked this year ('cept Benji's Decade) are all much of a muchness & are all going to be good so whats the point? Maybe testers could all have different brakes, BBs, forks, chains, tubeless kits etc etc & in a big end of year issue 'compare and contrast.'

Random ideas for a articles.

Old vs New-
How about testing an old Orange 5 against a new one? Or a 2002 Santa Cruz Superlight vs a 2010 model or even an old Inbred vs a newer one? I'm not talking retro vs modern but just models up to 10 years old. Would be useful to people who can't afford (or justify spending) £3000 on a new bike.

Second Hand Challenge-
2nd hand buying is not mentioned much in Singletrack. A guide would be daft but what about for a bit of fun some 'Top Gear' type challenges ie £300 to spend on a Hardtail, or £500 to spend on a FS which will then be ridden down Fort William or in the Alps or whatever.

OK so most of these suggestions are about bikes- I'm sure some of you who are more interested in riding (eugh! 🙂 could come up with ideas for articles about that-

What about 'rides in your backyard' more? I actually like those. I know 'other' mags have done these but a group photo (with names) of the locals showing STW around along with the route etc would be great.

In my view STW has to either be the mag of the people or a commercial entity. At the moment it's trying to be both, sort of like the Labour party, and it just doesn't work well. We all want the former, but the market won't support it. It's mostly our fault.

Singletrack is by far and away the best MTB mag.

+1

Recent issues aren't as interesting as those from a few years back though.