[Closed] Sick of Shimano brakes, what should I buy?

MT5's are dual piston, MT4/2 are single piston.

MT5's have monster power. More than Zee's, more than Formula The Ones.

Price is good too.

I'm using a lifeline front rotor and clarkes rear rotor. I assume they are both 1.8mm but I've had no issue with either. Will replace both with Magura when necessary as their discs don't seem too badly priced.

I've had my MT5's about 4 months after getting fed up with shimano's
They where initialy improved by taking the MT5 standard pads out (once completely worn in a month)
And putting the individual MT7 ones in (uberbike do these also).
But I didn't like the stupid big levers at all so upgraded to the single finger HC levers.

I got these cheap from DE as they are stupid expense at RRP.
I haven't got a clue why these aren't supplied as standard as they honestly change the brakes from very good to outstanding.

So I think I'm just going to try the Magura MT2, whats the worst that can happen

I have to admit I'm tempted by the MT2 for my next HT build simply on the basis of price, basic 2 pots with a flipable lever, they seem like a reasonable option... Anyone tried them?

Just stripped my rear deore caliper as oil was finding its way onto the pads. It looks really good even though about 4 years use. One side was fine. Other (oily side) had corrosion under seal. Cleaned it up and put it back together. Seems OK. See how it goes.

Forgive me, but that's not a cure.

Is is the cure if the issue isn't a leak in the calliper or similar. As I said, in my cases it's because the users are over zealous with the spray lube. I've done it on my own bike too. I'd love to have a look at the OPs bike, I think he's blinkered by calliper issues, after replacing it 5 times he's fixated by it.

Thanks for all the helpful replies.

Seems to be a lot of love for the Maguras out there, I'm sold.

So with that in mind what am i missing about this ebay listing, surely too good to be true? Theres got to be a catch right?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Magura-MT2-Disc-Brake-2-Position-Front-Rear-Set-Hydraulic-w-160mm-rotors-/322045704781?epid=0&hash=item4afb6b7a4d:g:pVMAAOSwMVdYIcvt

Just to add i quickly pulled the pads out of the deores when i got home from work there. No sign of any obvious leaks anywhere. There is however slight signs of fluid on the back of the pads, nothing major. Nothing around the connectors either.

So i pumped the leaver a little with the pads out, on both calipers the pistons don't move equally. The piston on the side of the caliper where the hose connects moves a lot less. Coincidence - probably. Anyway, I then pumped the leaver with the moving piston clamped in place and the other one seemed to move freely enough, didn't seem stuck at all. Pump leaver with both pistons free and same uneven movement. No sign of any fluid when i was doing all this.

I hate it when things don't work for no obvious reason, I need to know! lol

Shimano brakes do do this Poddy, I've had two pairs of deore's do it, stored in various places, I don't use any sprays at all in the shed, pads get contaminated on their own, they can be fine, all new, good for a ride or two, leave in shed for a week, no brakes. It's very well documented across most shimano brakes.

A few things to try/think about.

Did you reset the pistons before trying again? I.e. Push them both back in fully.

Are you sure they are properly bled?

Also how do you line up your calipers? Do you get the disc central in the slot and then bolt up or do the loose bolts and put the brakes on thing? I find the former works better if the pads aren't unevenly worn.

So with that in mind what am i missing about this ebay listing, surely too good to be true? Theres got to be a catch right?

If you're OK with:

Dispatches from: China, Hong Kong
Delivery to United Kingdom: Est. 2 Oct - 26 Oct

Then it's all good... Probably.

But TBH I would pay that bit more to buy them at least within Europe (if not the UK), just in case I did have to try and make a warranty claim/return...

garage-dweller - Member
A few things to try/think about.

Did you reset the pistons before trying again? I.e. Push them both back in fully.

Are you sure they are properly bled?

Also how do you line up your calipers? Do you get the disc central in the slot and then bolt up or do the loose bolts and put the brakes on thing? I find the former works better if the pads aren't unevenly worn.

Yep piston fully reset.
Brakes seem bled well enough.
Normally align the calipers by eye, the pull brakes and tighten bolts method never seems to work for me.

When they work they are great brakes, easy to bleed, good power, I'm just sick of never knowing if they are going to work the next morning or not!
The above was more of an observation than anything else, they are destined for the bin (or ebay as 'spares or repairs' more likely - someone will take them).

No worries, a few random thoughts just in case.

I think I may either have a leaky one myself (needs looking at tomorrow) or its some very squeaky Kevlar pads.

Fwiw I have 3 sets of Deore brakes going back to 2003 and this 2010 ish caliper will (if it is leaky) be the only one that's ever given grief despite copious neglect.

I've had a pair of older hopes too. Front caliper flawless, rear more troublesome. There are no perfect brake makers!

I've ordered a lot from China/Hong Kong over the years, always got here and always as described, mostly lower priced items.

They do occasionally like their counterfeit good though, not sure how these could be but i'd hate the brake equivalent of the copycat cars they knock out to turn up!

Probably right about the warranty thing as well, better safe than sorry.

Fwiw I have 3 sets of Deore brakes going back to 2003 and this 2010 ish caliper will (if it is leaky) be the only one that's ever given grief despite copious neglect.

The SLX i had previously were excellent, not a pick of bother despite similar levels of neglect (my bikes get a wash when it rains, I only really maintain the drivetrain). These deores have be awful though and put me off trying any of the more expensive ones.

The symptom is a very slight oil leak which somehow ends up on the rotors while the bike is stored.

One of my Shimano calipers started leaking, luckily, it was a day inside warranty still 😀

It was on the Dh bike and it hadn't been used a good while, boffins on here said that's what started leaking.

Bikes stored front wheels up, resting on their rear wheels fwiw

New I just pull the levers every so often, keep things moving.

If I wasn't a Saint fanboi I'd go Magura.

My sh set of Magura louise freerides are still one of the most reliable brakes of my past. Bombproof.

P-Jay - Member
Shirley for water to get in, fluid in a pressurised system would leak out. No leaks, no water contamination?

No hydraulic brake is a 'pressurised system'.

fairly convinced that what people think is a subtle piston leak at the calliper is in fact coming from the crimped on rubbish quality hose. This makes its way to the pads, causes air in the system and variable bite. Fixed by quality fittings and hose and an ability to do a very thourough, correct bleed.

The problem seems to be far more common with rear callipers.. (from what I can tell)

I'm not sure which bit you mean is crimped though? Or is that only Deore???
The hoses go onto the banjo's .... with the olive ... which bit is crimped?
After a lot of trouble free riding the rear brake lost braking on Sunday... I had to get home, jump in a shower and get a flight so I haven't looked yet... but I have a spare hose I've been meaning to get round to fitting anyway as the current one is routed externally as it was a bit short after changing across bikes)

I'm on Sram guides but I am curious about Magura disc brakes - have read some good things about them and fancy trying the 4 pots with the monster power. No bike needs new discs though - the guides are only months old and are perf ct for me with 200/180mm discs. The hardtail has barely used Deores on it - they were new 'old stock' so have a horrible long brake lever on them but for a bit of commuting / playing on pump tracks they are good (and only cost £30 for the pair with rotors).

No hydraulic brake is a 'pressurised system'.

Even when you pull the lever?

[img] https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTqPjw0hlyGLubIAWrtLdYhGWl-yBZodcMrwthPn8qGyxWqDSOjqA [/img]

Thread closed.

The problem seems to be far more common with rear callipers.. (from what I can tell)

I've had Hopes (A long time ago and not really for long enough to tell how well they lasted - bike got nicked - but a good brake for its time), Maguras (back when they were single piston - horrendous, squealed like a pig, not that effective, and needed bleeding all the time, not to mention the need for manual adjustment as they were single piston...) Avids (Juicys - a fairly terrible experience) and now a load of trouble free cheapo Shimanos (save for occasional bleeding).

I'm not convinced my lack of trouble with Shimano is anything but luck though. I guess what I'm trying to say is that something that gets mud chucked at it, gets hot, gets left in a damp garage, and then gets caked in mud and turned upside down from time to time for good measure will need some maintenance.

I'm not convinced you've got a leaky caliper if it's going away after one hill's worth of bedding in either, it could be any form of contamination with a bit of damp. But whatever you go for will not be fit and forget.

Looks like a fairly well reported common issue (the rate of warranty return tells you that) so lets just accept it's actually been an issue.
Changing hoses on new brakes to make them work sounds like there are issues.
Met plenty with the impossible to bleed variable bite point crap ones.
Their selling point is their price and the fact shimano will keep sending you new ones for a year.

Is that the caliper beside the big, spinny, oily thing?

scotroutes - Member
The problem seems to be far more common with rear callipers.. (from what I can tell)
Is that the caliper beside the big, spinny, oily thing?

It would be really easy to tell as there would be a fine film of oil over the stays, spokes, hub etc. In fact you could probably tell just by looking as it would only be on the drive side too.

It's hardly ever [i]that[/i] much fluid, mike.

I've recently changed XT brakes for SRAM guides for same reason. XT's fine for first few rides then squeal of death. Cleaned it all, replaced rotors and pads, still same. Guides seem much better and I didn't think i'd be saying that a couple of years back.

DezB - Member
It's hardly ever that much fluid, mike.

I'd certainly be investigating that cause before chucking new calipers at it.

Well yep, as the calipers are identical then it would seem to be something to do with the hose... or mounting direction of the caliper

Is that the caliper beside the big, spinny, oily thing?

I'm trying to work out what the crimped bit is though... ??? Is that on SLX/XT or is it just on the Deore hoses???

Treated my Shimano bike in exactly that same way as my SRAM bikes and the only issue I've had is on my Shimano braked bike. First calipers lasted 6 months, the next only 2 months. Pistons visibly wet behind pads, outside of calipers is dry so unlikely to be lube fling. Don't use spray lubes either. Even if it was spray lubes causing problems it seems pretty bad material choice to me. Could be a hose issue as only my calipers was changed, but again after 8 months use that's not acceptable.
Bike came from lbs who I've know for years and he has 3 or 4 sets across the price range away at the moment. Has returned brakes off his own bike as well.

Just waiting on a set of Guide RS coming as I'm done with Shimano brakes.

fairly convinced that what people think is a subtle piston leak at the calliper is in fact coming from the crimped on rubbish quality hose.

It it was the hose it would not be fixed by replacing the caliper....

I've had three shimano brakes where I've had to change the calipers. Admittedly two of those were old lx ones from my commuter than is never cleaned however they went is exactly the same as the newer SLX did. Squealing, no power, work better towards the end of the ride (or much better in the rain). Issue persists over different pads and discs. Its definitely a caliper problem. I have used pads that were squealing on the old caliper on the replacement and they worked fine. That is a pretty big pointer.

Back on topic. Hope E4 front and X2 rear for me (180mm rotors front and rear). Four pistons on the back is not really necessary and are more of a pain to keep running smoothly.

For my other bike I'm going to try some Magura's if the Shimano's have another issue.

mikewsmith - Member

by the sounds of the way people are amazingly fine with hire fleets then it's batches/years at fault rather than everything so more of a lottery.

Yes, or their bikes never sit long enough to see the issue or their clients are not used to the bike so don't notice the brakes aren't feeling right straight away, etc etc.

In my case(s) it was definitely not the hose, I wrapped kitchen roll round it and there was no mark.

Not a hose issue on the Deore's I don't think, there's no crimped hose on them at all, hose goes straight into the caliper with an olive and a nut, same as into the cylinder/lever.

I've cleaned calipers, dried them, reset pistons, bled them, cleaned rotors, new rotors, new pads, everything, the same issue always comes back at some point.

It's loss of power and lots of squealing, upon inspection the pads are always contaminated. I tend to cook mine on the camp stove now (as it was getting silly expensive replacing them), then lightly sand them, you can see the crap evaporate/smoke out. After this and cleaning the discs, re-bedded in they're ok for a bit, like new, then the process starts over.

Weird, Shimano brakes on all my bikes since I returned to MTB in 2009, used everything from Deore to Saint and have found them to be fit and forget...i do tend to tinker and change things so I've probably not had a set for more than 12 months at a time before building another project or buying another bike, they're brutally powerful in anything from XT up and I've found if you want more then 180mm rotors and soft compound pads do the job, never had the need for 203mm rotors and I've never had to bleed them either...it's at the point now where I don't look at another manufacturer for brakes, Shimano do the job and are cheap which is a bonus.

It it was the hose it would not be fixed by replacing the caliper....

Well fitting a new caliper means refitting the hose and also a bleed so not entirely unconnected.

If you change to TRP spyke or Avid BB7 I absolutely guarantee that they will never leak.

Ah, but they still end up coated by the fine spray of lube getting thrown off the big spinny oily thing on the other side of the wheel 😉

I've recently changed XT brakes for SRAM guides for same reason. XT's fine for first few rides then squeal of death. Cleaned it all, replaced rotors and pads, still same. Guides seem much better and I didn't think i'd be saying that a couple of years back.

Dont go riding in any sort of wet conditions as you'll soon hear the SRAM squeal! I'm tempted to swap my guides for XTs!

For the OP's problem (brakes fine when working, unpredictable after storage) the hydraulic system must somehow be compromised. Seals or hose joints are the usual problems.

Hose joints aren't likely to be an issue unless shortening has been hashed up or the OP believed the stories about the magic brake that didn't need bleeding after opening the circuit. He's bleeding them so that's unlikely. Threaded unions are possible but that should be obvious.

The usual seal issue these days seems to be caliper seals but that should be soiling the pad and rotor.

As someone mentioned earlier, these threads never really end well. The fanbois leap to the defence of their preferred brand claiming product perfection.

TBH, as of the seal issue, especially given the number of people who comment on liking a short pull lever, how much of this is due to the overfilling that every forum advises? It's known that kills Formula lever seals, maybe it's what is at the bottom of the Shimano seal problem too ?

especially given the number of people who comment on liking a short pull lever, how much of this is due to the overfilling that every forum advises?

Shouldn't need to do that to Hope, XT or Guide RSC - IME all can be set up for very short throw/close to bar using the adjusters with a normal bleed.

Well, ripped mine apart and the master cylinder plunger in the lever is sticking. Had it out, cleaned it and it still sticks when pushed fully in ... well sometimes, not all....

shimano or sram , shimano all day, although had to replace a 11 month old XT m8000 brake, warranty replacement fine.

my sram guide R awful honking sounds and both levers packed in in 11 months, sent back warranty replaced both levers..

with XT m8000 at £135 on merlin why choose anything else

with XT m8000 at £135 on merlin why choose anything else

The list of failures in this thread is enough to put people off.