[Closed] Should I accept this £130 invisiframe fitting by a bike shop?

Although it is a bit sloppy, I'd say it is pretty minor and you wont notice it on the bike, it will also get scuffed up from normal use.

Looks a bit of a crap job to me. I certainly wouldn't be happy with it for that price.
Kiltge name kind of "suggests" it should be invisible, and it certainly isn't.

Who did it?

No.

I'd see it every time I washed the bike and resent paying for that job.

It's not heard to work in clean conditions on a clean frame and avoid all that contamination.

My experience with two invisiframed bikes is that the matt shows fitting issues much more than gloss but doesn't mark as easily when the bikes been used for a few months.

Looks like the YTS kids has done it.

If i'd done it myself and it looked like that i'd be a bit miffed but would just leave it.

If i'd paid £130 to have it done I wouldn't be happy about it and would telling them that.

No! If you'd done it yourself you'd probably just except it but not if you've paid £130 for it.

quite a few bubbles in my opinion. My DIY application (as well as DIY cut outs) is better than that. Anything that is not stuck down properly on the edge will come away after about 6 months of use and cleaning. Not sure whether I would send it back or not...

Does look a poor fit from a "professional" company.

Have they offered any refund? I'd be looking for their fitting fee back.

Have you asked invisiframe their thoughts on it?

I wouldn't be happy with that. Having fitted my own recently I did better than that, but having also been quoted over double what you've paid for it to be fitted, I'm not so surprised.
I'd be looking for some money off rather than a replacement though.

I'd not be happy if I'd paid for that job. Have done much better myself with no prior experience. It just takes a bit of time and care, that looks sloppy/careless/rushed to me. Although admittedly having recently done a matt/satin frame for someone it is much harder than gloss, though that could have been down to the tape (Rhino).

Cool, not just me then.

It looks like my mate's done it as he's done his a couple of times. Not a professional job!

Will be going back today 🙂

No. It's called invisiframe, not bubble wrap 😀

Your money your choice, but how long will you be without the bike now ?

I have done 3, its pretty hard to get it perfect TBH.

I'm not surprised some 3rd party who probably didn't spend hours on it has not done a good job.

Given you paid for it Id expect a good job, I'm just not surprised. I doubt anyone can get it much better without spending hours and that would push the price up.

Personally Id do it myself. When I've done it and spent ages I still end up with tiny imperfections. But I put up with that as its my error and I didn't pay for it.

I would ask them to remove it and then have a go yourself. I doubt very much they will do a better job than you. You just have to take a few hours over it and fully follow the instructions / video to get it done.

I've a few small bits that are not perfect, but you cant tell without very close inspection.

I'd be quite happy with that at £45 from Visiframe.

I'd agreeon the 'edges' bit too - any not securely attached will gradually get lifted over time.

Looked perfectly acceptable to me. IMO your exepctations are over what's realistic.

Not exactly invisi is it 😕

Not acceptable in my book

Taxi25 - Got my pimped out old pitch to blast the trails on while the goat gets itself sorted 🙂

[img] [/img]

I understand that it might not be perfect, but it looks sloppy. They will have got the decals at cost so made a pretty penny. If they'd spent a bit more time I now wouldn't be asking them to start again. As a developer sloppy code bites me on my butt so it's not worth cutting the corners.

I had no idea you could get other people to do this for you and there were enough cack-handed/lazy folk around to turn it into a business model!

Is that a perfectly reasonably helitaped frame - yes. Is that a 'professional standard' helitaped frame better than I would do in half an hour in front of the telly - no. I've no idea if I would feel motivated enough to kick up a stink as quite simply I can't conceive of paying someone else to do the job in the first place. £130 would almost be enough to get the bike resprayed and decaled at resale time.

Given with the cost of the kit you've spent £200 on that finish convert makes a good point. Although invisiframe does also provide some impact damage, ime.

I have 2 kids and barely have enough time to ride the thing otherwise I would have done it myself.

I decided to pay premium dollar and just get it done. It's not a professional job in my book.

Ask for it to be corrected, or get your money back, or get them to refund you and remove it.

Its not as you should expect.

If that's a brand new, un-ridden bike its a fairly shoddy job. If you are like me too excited to waste time doing shitty jobs like invisiframe and ride you bike before fitting it then i think its not too bad. Basically one you have ridden a bike its impossible to get all of the little bits of grit and dirt off if find. Best bet is to de-grease and clean the frame before fitting as you lift out of the box...

The frame is stripped though... there are no bits of grit around the front of the bike. If it was more to the back then I would get it. There is nothing round the top tube.

I have done decals before and it's easy to get crap on them if you're not careful. Doesn't matter how new the frame is.

More the fact they have left sloppy edges that will lift. Then I'll just have to rip it off and it was a waste of time.

it's fine, it's going to be covered in mud, dents and scratches in a month or two anyway.

Is that a perfectly reasonably helitaped frame - yes.
Is that a 'professional standard' helitaped frame better than I would do in half an hour in front of the telly - no.

I've ripped off kits and binned them for less contamination.

Given with the cost of the kit you've spent £200 on that finish convert makes a good point. Although invisiframe does also provide some impact damage, ime.

I'd assumed that £130 was including the kit? I paid £120 all in a few years ago (to stif), £60 for the kit, £60 to fit it.

Had the bike been ridden before application? What do you mean by stripped? Properly (almost medically) clean, or just washed? As that could leave loads of imperceptable little bits that only show up in the manner above.

A the end of the day its to protect the frame, when you come to sell it (I assume that's why you've done it) take it off and the frame will be good as new...

That lift in picture five…… 10 seconds with the hairdryer and pressing down with the back of your thumbnail will sort it no worries.

Given that the tape is there to take the knocks instead of the paint and will be stripped off when it gets tatty or if you sell the bike to make it shiny again, the only thing that really matters is if it would bother you as you ride around on it (or gaze at it admiringly which seems to be half the point of bike ownership for many). Looking at the (impressive)state if you're other bike, I suspect it might!

Please tell me £130 was the all-in price, not just for the fitting as someone seems to have assumed here?

What do you want to happen? Partial refund or them to do the poorly fitted bits again?

It was 130 all in...

I agree, I would be embarrassed to send something out looking like that.

As I paid 130 I want a good job. If it had been cheap then I might have thought about living with it, though still a little disappointed.

I would like them really to do it again properly and take their time about it. Not thinking I'll just accept shoddy work. They are a premium bike shop and do it at a premium price from what I can see. I expect an above par job.

It's more the point. I recently paid them a pretty penny for a new bottom braket as it was push fit and expect to be treated like someone they want back.

There are some bits that I would accept, but the larger pieces need doing again.

Also, if I was doing it I would wrap any bits in cling film, which might kick out crap when applying. Not rocket science.

When I said stripped I meant I had taken nearly all the components off the bike so they could get to the frame.

Cheers

Not excusing the quality but £130 all in is very cheap. The kits are £72 (probably a bit cheaper for the shop), and I reckon to do it properly including set up time it's got to be at least 3-4 hours work. What is the hourly rate for bike shop labour?

[i]It was 130 all in...[/i]

I reckon you got what you paid for, tbh 🙁

The kits are £72

Blimey. Presumably this for a kit with precut pieces to fit a specific frame?

I've only ever bought the stuff (whatever grade of 3M is commonly used- I have to look it up every time) off the roll by the metre from an vinyl supplier and cut my own. A bit of faffing with some pattern paper to get the shapes right before cutting the shapes but no biggie. Normally comes in about £10-15 a frame.

[i]Presumably this for a kit with precut pieces to fit a specific frame?[/i]

yes, holes for all the frame fittings, sculpted to go round the tubes correctly. There's a fair amount of work in them.

I reckon to do it properly including set up time it's got to be at least 3-4 hours work. What is the hourly rate for bike shop labour?

With something like fitting Invisiframe experience and practice result in both better quality [i]and[/i] speed. From what I have read, the owner of Invisiframe is very quick.

I guess that to make fitting Invisiframe worthwhile for a bike shop, they need to do a lot of them on a fairly frequent basis to build up and maintain the skill, eficiency and speed. Doing just the odd occasional one is probably going to result either in mistakes and sloppy workmanship, or in it taking so long that the shop loses money on the fitting.

If thats a new frame then thats very poor imo.

If its a frame thats been used and then stripped / cleaned then your always going to get some contamination.

Its a very average job and not something i would pay 130 quid for. Id be wanting money back if it was a new frame.

yes, holes for all the frame fittings, sculpted to go round the tubes correctly. There's a fair amount of work in them.

I guess there is. Once you have the shapes and saved them as a DXF a vinyl cutter will tessellate them efficiently and bang them out all day long. Nice little sideline with that sort of mark up for a sign writing company with access to bikes to work the pattern pieces out on.

I thought £130 was still on the steep side for an all-in price.

Had a frame done last summer, I'm sure it was under £100.

When I said stripped I meant I had taken nearly all the components off the bike so they could get to the frame.

So it's fittings a kit to a used frame? If so I revert to my earlier post. Did you or the shop make the job easier by breaking the frame into component parts? By that I mean removeinh linkages and swing arms, shocks etc.

Way I see it is fitting a kit to a used frame is pretty damn hard to get all of the crap off the frame as I mentioned earlier. I rode my bike once and spent hours stripping and cleaning it and still have contamination under the invisframe. Luckily for me I don't care particularly. As long as the kit last 12months I'm happy

if its a new frame - then shocking

if its a used frame - then its still not great, but your never going to get it completely clear and blemish free IMO, traces of oil/grease etc etc and general marks on the frame etc mean its never going to be completely as it would be new

£130 still sounds steep though even if it was new, the kits only 70 ish quid?! 60 quid labour for fitting a invisiframe kit?! is that the going rate?!

Bubbles are annoying but won't affect the performance. If it was reasonably priced I might be inclined to ignore.

However the folded bit in the pic below will result in it peeling away therefore it's unacceptable.

[img] [/img]

Its a very average job and not something I would pay 130 quid for

The 'job' was £58, £72 was for the kit.

60 quid labour for fitting a invisiframe kit?! is that the going rate?!

Yes. 15 years ago the Halfords i worked in (along with most LBS) charged £40 an hour for unspecified jobs. 90mins (plus) doesn't sound unreasonable

No way would I accept that its looks awful. I only paid £100 for my invisiframe to be done by invisiframe themselves and that was through my LBS who drove it 20 miles there and drove back to fetch it. The finish was perfect too. Not a single blemish, bubble or any other imperfection. Its 2 years old now and still looks as good as the day it was put on.

Take it back and ask them to take it off and get your money back.

I think I'd be asking for that to be redone.

Invisiframe fitting is a PITA, I've just done this myself with a freshly repainted gloss frame straight from the paintshop. I've had to cheat in places by gently inserting a pin sideways into a couple of small bubbles to remove.

If you're paying £50 for your bike shop to do the job, then it's reasonable to expect it to be done to a high standard.

Photos are not displaying for me.

I guess that to make fitting Invisiframe worthwhile for a bike shop, they need to do a lot of them on a fairly frequent basis to build up and maintain the skill, eficiency and speed. Doing just the odd occasional one is probably going to result either in mistakes and sloppy workmanship, or in it taking so long that the shop loses money on the fitting.

Agree, when I asked my LBS, they said they don't do the fitting as it takes so long (because it's not a service they normally offer) that they'd have to charge around £400 to fit one, so they just say no.

Yes. [b]15 years ago[/b] the Halfords i worked in (along with most LBS) charged £40 an hour for unspecified jobs. 90mins (plus) doesn't sound unreasonable

Wouldn't be happy with paying £130 for that myself, seems a big cost for what you've got.

Misleading thread title is misleading (as you fully well know).If I was Lee at Invisiframe I'd be fully pissed off with you right now.
It implies Invisiframe have charged you £130 for applying their kit.Where as in reality a 3rd party has fitted an Invisiframe kit and charged you [b]£58[/b] labour.It would have cost you £72 even if you fitted it yourself.
Fitting them is a time consuming PITA unless you have done a lot and have a unridden frame.

Lee at Invisiframe does such a marvellous job (even on a fully assembled bike) that I won't get it done by anyone else.

And there's some great riding nearby, or it's on the way to Wales to drop-off/collect later.

Fair play that's not intentional!

I will update the first post if I can't update the title.

It's UBYK who did it.

To the OP - you've probably got the worst conditions for an 'invisible' fit : matt black frame and matt tape but it still looks poor to me. As mentioned in your first post, I did my frame and forks myself and it looks better than that - though it was box-fresh. If the labour charge was £50 it suggests they probably took 2-3 hours tops which would be do-able if you were an expert at this but otherwise suggests a rush job.

As Rorschach says you should be clear about the difference between the product and the fitter and who is at fault.

Hmmmmm can't change it :/

K..... THIS POST IN NOW WAY REFLECTS THE INVISIFRAME COMPANY! IT WAS FITTED BY A BIKE SHOP

I will contact singletrack and see if I can get the title changed as I agree it doesn't read right and I like the product, just not the fitting by the bike shop.

Right, messaged singletrack as I don't want to slag the company off!

So, took it in and they are trying to say might be paint imperfections? But they will take a look and lift it.

I would have noticed all those bumps in the paintwork.... Like I don't know my bike.

Had it a year, but had an injury so actually haven't ridden it very much.

Rorschach - You have made a big assumption.... Why would I want to do that? I have no vendetta against invisiframe and am not seeking attention. I just feel let down by the job that was done. I strive, in my field as a developer, to do the best I can. When I pay good money I expect the same service.

Just wish I had the time to do it myself as this is why I usually do stuff myself :/

I didn't read the title that way myself.

Took fitting to be the key word.

BTW, epic Single Track 🙂 Updated the title 🙂 Cheers guys 🙂

Now back on point 😉

130 nicker?

wow... surely there are better things to spend 130 on.... and despite having two kids i'm sure you could find the time with a bottle of red and do it yourself.

i worked as a guide a few years back on Gran Canaria. i managed to injure my leg so my days were spent sitting in the sun heli-taping new frames. a 25mm roll, a 50mm roll and a scapel. finish was good, better than your results and that was cutting pieces to fit. got it down to about an hour, but never let the boss know that.

Experience... I'm wondering if they get them in few and far between.

I'm not having a go at the guy that did it, but you've just shown me it's all down to experience. Just like my job 😉 Like I could write regular expressions when I first started. Looked like voodoo.....

Hopefully will get this sorted. Think the guy in the shop knew it wasn't really up to scratch once he saw all the bits. If it had that many bits on the paintwork I would have sent it by to YT!

Thanks for everyones input though as this is what single tracks forum is all about.... 🙂

Not sure how you want them to resolve this. If it were me, I'd be looking for a refund on the labour cost and then go ride my bike. I wouldn't be having them redo it with the risk that it comes back no better. More time in July without your bike.
As an experienced vinyl fitter, it looks like a dust management problem. If they wet applied the vinyl dust can still travel under the vinyl. Easily done but easily sorted if spotted during the install. It could be the odd bump in your paintwork. That shows as the same but would need to see first hand to be sure.

Yeah, if it had been a couple of bits I'd have rolled with it. It's just so many it's not possible as on the seat tube I put a scratch in it a week earlier and had a cry 😉 So I know the rest was spot on. There's shit all over it.

But yeah, easy at install. Rushed job as some of the edges weren't even pushed down. I did it with my thumb.... How can they not use their thumbs? So was a bit worse when I initially got it back. Was just all the crap underneath that takes the piss. I could have done that in front of my tv on my carpet on the rug !

I've done 3 YT invisi kits. Took hours and you don't need to strip the bike at all.

A business charging just £130 wont make money unless they rush it. Quite possibly they underestimated the faff and time involved.

To echo what a few people have said above - I wouldn't be happy if I'd been quoted £130 to fit an invisiframe kit to my bike and the result looked like that.
Unless they state at the outset that it will have bubbles and loose edges, I don't think you're being unreasonable in asking for the to remove and refund. If that's the best they can do then they should just stop offering that service.

As to whether it's worth the hassle / do they make money on it / is it cheap / is it a waste of money... all that is by the by, they offered a service and the result is not what I'd expect from a professional job.

Si

To echo what a few people have said above - I wouldn't be happy if I'd been quoted £130 to fit an invisiframe kit to my bike and the result looked like that.

To reiterate, he paid £58.

I'd not be happy with that at all - I've fitted three kits now, two of which I modified because they don't do one for the Ti Stantons and all look a lot better than that, including the first one on a bike that I'd ridden.

Ask for a complete/partial refund or whatever you think is appropriate compensation and get on with riding it.

I did my first ever invisiframe on my Slackline myself, didn't do a very good job, bubbles all over the place...then ran a front derailleur which messed up the seatpost portion and had to stick it down with a spare patch which came with the kit.

I care less and less each time I get it out of the shed, its doing a job of protecting the frame from the worst..

ride it

Lee @ Inivisiframe did my FlareMax including making a kit for it as it was the first one he'd done. Brilliant job, still looks perfect nearly a year later and he threw in some extra patches as a free kit for my forks when I collected it. He's a lovely fellas as well, couldn't be more helpful. Think it was £45

Bird (probably Ben!) did my Aeris and again a top job that's stood the test of time well over two years. My mate did my Mojo3 and it's good but not as good as Lee or Bird. I'm happy to pay someone to do it because when it's done well, it looks great and works great and lasts for ages.

Pics from the OP look more like a home-fit job.

The reason you pay £70+ for invisiframe is you dont see it and the frame looks as good as new for a long time. If you just wanted to protect it youd get some heli-tape and put up with lifting and peeling and dirty edges and then replace the tape after a year. Ive done 4 or 5 and where ive sold the bike its meant it pristine, making it much easier to sell and get a better price, in most cases enough to cover the cost of the tape.

The 'not stuck down' images are where the tape has been peeled off a dry surface and re-stuck down (some of mine look like that where i rushed it). The surface should have been wet or the installer good enough to get it down in one go.

Little raised bits or creases should have been hit with a heat gun to soften them and get them to stick.

Tiny bubbles on the Capra decals, well ive no idea as the slightly raised graphics means even with heat its hard to get the tape to deal with the defined edge. I guess with a lot of water and some serious pressure you could do it but it risks the tape moving out of place, id only expect that level of quality from Invisframe himself.

So you had the frame for a year, then got it taped. I'm sorry fella its a shoddy job but a good as I guess many can d after a years use. You would never get it clean enough without stripping all back to basic parts soaking then drying with a lint free cloth before alcohol wiping. I do blame he bike shop as they obviously under charged for the job. It would take a LONG time to get a well used frame properly done. IME

If you just wanted to protect it youd get some heli-tape and put up with lifting and peeling and dirty edges

Heli-tape is just shorthand for 3M's polyurathane protective tape (normally 8672). Invisiframe claim to use 3M tape too. I would be amazed if the actual film is any different to generic 3M - you are paying extra for it being precut not the actual film. I guess precut section will fit better and are therefore less inclined to be fitted poorly and peel.

I think weighing it all up I would go for a discount rather than them fitting another kit.

I suspect you will still not get it fitted much better.

With a sizable discount I would be ok with it to be honest (with a bit of messing around at home to improve the worst bits if possible).

At £130 I would be a bit miffed though!

Heli-tape is just shorthand for 3M's polyurathane protective tape (normally 8672). Invisiframe claim to use 3M tape too. I would be amazed if the actual film is any different to generic 3M - you are paying extra for it being precut not the actual film. I guess precut section will fit better and are therefore less inclined to be fitted poorly and peel.

Ive bought a ton of different stuff reccomended here and elsewhere. None of it has ever been as good as the Invisiframe stuff, most of it has been downright crap. The stuff Invisframe use is (if you find the right code) actually quite expensive (and almost impossible to buy online). Thats not to say the 'heli tape' you or anyone else has bought is not good, just ive not found stuff thats as good.

How did I pay 58? Have you any idea about retail? As a shop you don't pay RRP!

They will have paid at most half of that.... so it's more like 90 quid profit.

The guy wants to take some off to see if it's the frame. Like I wouldn't have noticed all those bumps all over. I would have sent it back to YT saying they have messed up the paint work. Guess they're giving themselves breathing room.

If you cant do the job, don't offer the service! Simples...

How did I pay 58? Have you any idea about retail? As a shop you don't pay RRP!

They will have paid at most half of that.... so it's more like 90 quid profit.

The guy wants to take some off to see if it's the frame. Like I wouldn't have noticed all those bumps all over. I would have sent it back to YT saying they have messed up the paint work. Guess they're giving themselves breathing room.

If you cant do the job, don't offer the service! Simples...

Ive bought a ton of different stuff reccomended here and elsewhere. None of it has ever been as good as the Invisiframe stuff, most of it has been downright crap.

The 150 micron tape from Demon tweeks seems to be the same or pretty much indistinguishable from the invisiframe stuff. Most of the other available tapes are 300 micron, which provides better impact protection for say downtube but is harder to work around compound curves than the 150 micron tape.

How did I pay 58? Have you any idea about retail? As a shop you don't pay RRP!

They will have paid at most half of that.... so it's more like 90 quid profit.

If you bought a rear mech at the same shop and asked the shop to fit it for you would you expect to pay trade for it rather than rrp because you were also paying a fitting fee? This is no different. Unless you have a mate's rate deal with the shop you paid £72 for the kit. You then paid £58 for it to be fitted.

How did I pay 58? Have you any idea about retail? As a shop you don't pay RRP!

If you buy a £20,000 car and pay £100 for it to be delivered to you house but they screw it up and deliver it to your work, would you be complaining about a £20,100 delivery? What was the cost of the invisi without fitting? Take that amount away from what you paid for the all in cost, that's what you paid for the service.

It's the service that's in question here, not the product. But as others have said, I reckon that's as good as it could have been given the materials they had to work with. By which I mean your pre used/ridden bike, that's had all sorts of detritus stuck to it, and the tape has magnified it.