[Closed] Selling my Five, but what to buy?

Salsa Spearfish.

Road bike.

130mm 650b full sus......whyte T130, new Transition. Im sure other manufacturers will be bringing out similar this year.

This way you get the best of both wolds as per your post.
Climb well, go downhill well and can still do all day rides.

100mm travel 29er , I had a Salsa Spearfish 100mm front 80mm rear , it was a great bike , low BB kept it stable , it climbed well, actually was really quick downhill but reminded you in a kind way

Transition Klunker?

That way you'll be too scared to go fast.

I'm in exactly the same boat 2 trips to A and E in 2 months. Most recently I properly snapped my Humerus, def not as funny as it sounds! Did you see what I did there? 😉 was in the middle of nowhere at the time as well. I've now got a 4 month lay off from work and a 10" scar down my tricep where the surgeon had to slice my tricep in two to fit the Ti plate and 11 screws.

As I was on my Ritchey P-29er at the time and descending an unfamiliar piece of trail I'm putting it down to several factors:
1. Unfamiliar trail (but not really that technical for me normally)
2. Very XC orientated bike and hence not as capable a descender as some bikes.
3. A bit of a gung go attitude given it was an unfamiliar trail.

My response is to sell my XC orientated bikes and get something with slacker angles. Which is where I seem to differ from you rover pig as I know if I'd been coming down that trail on a Five I would have cleaned it no problem as I would have more suspension and more rubber between me and the ground. I understand your opinion that you go too fast on it but a lot is to be said about having that extra bit of suspension to help you through. I'm also going to get myself on another skills course as well at glentress and instead of just going out to ride my bike round trails I also intend on going out to practise the skills as well to make me a better rider.
I.e. Up and down the streets doing bunny hops, manuals, cornering and shifting my weight about on the bike etc which I'm ok at just now but if I'm better at these skills then I should be better equipped to deal with what comes at me on the trails.

The reason I've came to this last idea about a skills course is that I heard it said second hand that Chris Ball, the guy who does the skills courses and runs Dirt School and also appears in a few magazines says every accident he ever had during his downhill career was due to not having enough weight forward on the bike to maintain traction with the front wheel. Hence if I get my skill level up I should crash less.

I went through similar early last yr and went from a 5 to a Soul with a reverb. I dont miss the 5, for the type of riding I do, mainly natural west of scotland xc stuff, however I had my biggest and worst fall ever on the Soul.....

Steel hardtail for me is better as I do go a little slower but dont miss much comfort

i dont think changing bikes is going to stop you crashing as much or reduce the severity of the resulting injury,it might even make it all worse.

You could always try riding within your capabilities?

I know I do.

Road bike. Seriously.

Come back to MTBing when you're ready.

How about go slower now and develop some more skills, then speed up. Keep the bike I doubt very much that it's the cause of your crashes. Learn to Ride within your skills and fitness level-you will crash very infrequently and become a better rider.

Keep the bike.

Get lessons. Stay as fast. Dont fall off.

time to pack in mtb'ing, seriously 3 trips to A&E is a worry, id be forgetting it and telling myself id be better off on a road bike

the odd trip and comedy fall fine, but 3 trips to a&e is on a whole new level

either that, or just stop riding the stuff you are riding and stick to stuff you are capable of riding on, which quite frankly regardless of bike you must be struggling with

I'd be looking more closely at the contributory factors to the 3 trips to A&E, before changing the bike.

eg. Too fast (slow down a bit)/ Too slow (speed up a bit)/ got it wrong (practice getting it right)/ just bad luck (it happens)

I'd be getting a hardtail I reckon with your wreckord (see what I did there 8) )

I nice semi aggressive 29er HT will do most things while reminding you not to push it too hard.

That said, since I swapped my full suss to a HT I've managed to do things I'd not tried before and I'm faster on the other bits as well, but I'm more likely to be doing it properly at least.

I sold my '11 Five frame earlier this year and transplanted all the kit from it onto a 456Ti. The ONLY thing that I had to buy was a different sized lower headset cup, everything else fits.

I don't feel much slower except on the really fast rocky stuff, and I've got a bigger FS for those sort of days anyway. The only real drawback with the 456Ti over the Five is an increased frequency of wheel truing and spoke replacement.

So, I'd like a bike that makes climbing fun.

If you find one of those, please share 😀

I don't think changing the bike cure your issue. Sounds like you need to work on reading the trail and how and when to apply the brakes.

If you [i]must [/i]change the bike i'd suggest a good hardtail frame that you can swap the 5 bits onto (be it 26 or 650b) as it'll make the bunny hopping, manualling and jumping easier to learn properly. You can then either sell the 5 frame or hang onto it until you think you're ready.

Before getting rid of a bike you love and losing £££ I'd be looking at some decent skills tuition and body armour.

I sold my 5 last year and got a Whyte T129. I like it more than the 5 in most aspects apart from balls-out descending and the fact that it's not welded in Yorkshire. Just to reinforce my girly descending credentials, I immediately sold the dropper post. Seriously, it's a fab bike and I don't miss the 5.

the thing is about 5's is, they are great for descending! so assuming you are falling when descending then theres not much else out there that descends as assuringly as a five with that sort of travel to be perfectly honest

i dont like the way they climb in hindsight, but it was defo just as much fun descending wise than any other bike ive tried

i cant see how changing bike is going to stop you make visits to A&E

At the risk of sounding patronising I'd pay for a day of 1:1 tuition/skills course on the kind of terrain you have trouble with. You will probably benefit more from learning what you are doing wrong than trying to hide behind a different bike.

It would work out cheaper than a new bike and you may actually find you enjoy your riding more. I know I did when I had trouble.

If you do insist on changing bike then maybe some of the new breed 29ers would be right (Banshee Phantom, Process 111, Salsa Horsethief, Tallboy LT, etc).

Many years ago I was in a similar 'position', having a Spesh S-Works Enduro. I swapped to a HT (a 456) and just rode it, everywhere. Then bought a 456Ti, as it was lighter.

6 years later I'm now ready to get a FS again. The biggest difference is I've now learnt how to ride, properly. This has co-incided with a move to Scotland and riding on trails previously I would've never touched, even with the FS. And with guys who can ride them.

So I'd just buy a frame and build it up from the 5, and put the 5 frame on the wall for when you're ready.

I should've kept my FS frame, and I should've taken some training...

How about a slack, confident hardtail? The Whyte 905 would probably be ideal, as it’s got the angles for confident descending, combined with spritely bursts of speed out of corners, in virtue of being a hardtail (no pedal bob + lower weight). It’s also got a short back end, making manuals etc easy. Put a dropper post on it and some beefy tyres, and it could be just the ticket.

You know you want a Segment.

As others have said. My view would be keep the bike and invest in some skills tuition. I did after a series of falls and it was money well spent.

Damn, I had hoped that a few more people would try and answer the question rather than try to convince me that it's the wrong question. Still, I'm sure you are all trying to be helpful, so I'd better try and respond. Please excuse the curt reply. Typing left handed is frustratingly slow.

No, I don't blame the bike. It's me that needs to change. Selling the Five may just be a symbolic gesture, but it's a gesture that I feel I need to make.

Yes, if all I cared about was reducing risk, it would be safer to ride a big bouncy bike slowly, but that would be boring. More importantly I know I wouldn't do it.

Yes, skills courses are userful. I've done a few (group and 1:1). They were fun and made me a better rider. I crash less often, but I'm going faster when I do.

Yes I could buy a road bike. Actually I have one and have never stopped riding on the road. But I'd like to carry on riding trails as well.

Yes, 3 trips to A&E in 14 months is a lot, but on my own I'm a statistically insignificant sample. It may be down to lack of skill, it may be that 50 year old bones don't bounce so well, it may just be bad luck. Nobody, including me, knows and it doesn't matter. The fact is that I'm looking to change the way I ride and I'm looking for a bike that will make that new type of riding more fun.

Yes I really do enjoy climbing and I suspect that I'd enjoy it even more on a bike that was lighter, stiffer and more agile.

No, I don't want a hardtail (I've already got one). See original post.

I have an irrational objection to 650b, but wont rule it out. The T130 just looks like another slack trail bike to me though.

The Spearfish looks promising. Pity that the only frames available are a dull green colour.

ps. Get well soon haggis1978. I still consider myself lucky that the fracture on my humerus didn't go all the way through, so you have my sympathy.

It worries me that you think of manuals, bunny's and jumps as tricks. They're very useful tools to enable you to ride more difficult terrain in control, you need to reconsider your mindset when you're riding,get into the habit of trying to ride things well not necessarily fast.

You don't need a different bike to ride differently, a five will do everything perfect well and if not don't you have an FF29 anyway? Just go out and do different riding.

Are you keeping the Solaris? That covers what most are suggesting as a ht replacement and I'd say ride that more!*

For a fs recommendation, how about a Camber Evo?

*I may well be biased on that one!

I did put "tricks" in inverted commas as I knew it wasn't the right word. As I say, it's frustrating typing left handed and I don't have the energy to think of the right words.

Slack HT with short stays has crossed my mind. But why does it need to be slack? What does slack gain you? Aren't slack head angles mainly designed to increase stability at speed. They also make it harder to pick a line when going up a technical climb at walking pace, don't they?

Sounds to me like you are trying to blame the bike...

Surely riding offroad at 50 you need to be careful, and dare I say it ride slower a.k.a riding within your abilities (which at 50 doesnt necesarily mean skill, but your bodies limitations)

Are you keeping the Solaris

Not sure yet. I built up the Solaris as my rehabilitation bike after the last crash as I found the FF29 was just too twitchy at a time when I was nervous about even the smallest of falls. It has proved to be a great bike though and I may well just go back to using it as my only bike, at least through the winter. I do find the hardtail annoying after a few hours in the saddle though.

What you're looking for is a bit moon on a stick though. You want a bike that will climb well, descend confidently on technical stuff whilst being fun to ride slowly. The problem you have is that the characteristics that make a bike climb well (steeper angles, shorter travel, longer stays) don't really sit too well with solid descending, and if you're already crashing and getting a bike that is less competent is only going to make life harder. Looking at what you're after id say a 120-140mm trail bike but you own that and want something different. As for fun going slowly then you're looking at a trials bike or a reset of what you are looking for from a ride.

first thing first, after you have recovered... learn how to manual and hop over things, makes a night a day difference on a real trail. no point going as fast as possible only to fall off on the first technical bit you come across. it also helps to ride over things rather than though them if that makes any sense

id say park the big bike up first and get back out on the hardtail, you need skill to ride one rather than using suspension to make up for mistakes

o and heeling vibes

Roverpig, it's all to easy to over think things when you're out of action. Just concentrate on getting healed and see how you feel when mended.

roverpig - Member
I do find the hardtail annoying after a few hours in the saddle though.

Just a long shot here, but I know you like thinking ( 😉 )
but are you fuelling yourself on longer rides? Fatigue can play a big role in concentration issues / poor line choices, etc.

Get a Jones, a beard and change your outlook from speed and fun to diamond vs space frame vs truss vs blah blah blah.

Get a Jones, a beard and change your outlook [s]from[/s] [b]to[/b] outright fun (and probably to diamond vs space frame vs truss vs blah blah blah.)

A Stooge, Surly Krampus or similar would also have the same effect on your riding.

And maybe sign up to a skills course, it might work out cheaper (an less painful) in the long run.

I was going to say a Jones, too. I'm a road cyclist, and timid off-road, but if buying a mountain bike I'd go for a Jones. The handling is spot-on, and the bike is very confidence-inspiring.

The problem you have is that the characteristics that make a bike climb well (steeper angles, shorter travel, longer stays) don't really sit too well with solid descending,

Yes, it's all a trade-off. I am prepared to give up high speed stability if that's any help 🙂 Interesting point about stays, thanks. I've been thinking 29er for covering ground efficiently, then keep the stays as short as possible (<440mm) for manuals etc. But if the main focus is riding up steep mountains, would I be better off letting the stays grow a bit and working harder on technique?

it's all to easy to over think things when you're out of action. Just concentrate on getting healed and see how you feel when mended

Sage advice, but I can't do anthing else fun at the moment, so may as well waste a bit of the internet.

are you fuelling yourself on longer rides?

Probably not and that is something else I should work on, thanks.

Get a Jones, a beard and change your outlook from speed and fun to diamond vs space frame vs truss vs blah blah blah

It has crossed my mind. Well, not the beard, but the rest. However, I spent a few years riding recumbents and while that was fun I eventually came to the conclusion that wierd niches are wierd niches for a reason. I tend to lump Jones (maybe unfairly) in the same category.

A bit of Jones inspiration for you:

Or if nothing else a good vid to enjoy while healing.

As you may remember, I ride recumbents! That's probably the reason why the Jones seems so great!

I'd certainly recommend a test ride.

I can't compare it with a load of other mountain bikes, but it must rate as the most neutral 2-wheeler I've ridden.

A fat bike might be a good change of pace and by all accounts are great fun to ride.

(And if you get one, can I have a go..?) 🙂

Cheers bud and you too.

If a different bike is what you think you need the go for it. As someone mentioned earlier that Kona Process is supposed to be good. Certainly a bike I'd look at if in the market for a new full sus. Bigger wheels and slacker angles for better stability descending.

After having 8 month off a few years ago from a crash I was in a similar boat and thought about selling my bike.

However it was just a diversion from boredom and after reading all the tinterweb reviews and forums I'd talked myself into selling it and going for something new.

However when I was fit enough to ride again I made sure the bike was in tip top condition and set off. Within 5 minutes I loved it again and it was not going to be sold.

I suspect you are doing something similar. Changing your bike won't make you crash less if you are running out of skill / ability doing so. Sure it may make it slightly less / more painful depending on how capable the bike is downhill, but as a device to prevent injury changing a bike is a wrong decision imho.

I'd focus on getting better, analyse why you crashed and what actually caused it - then make changes to you if you need to. Short of mechanical failures, it is very rarely the bikes fault !

I'm 43 (tomorrow) by the way, so share a similar desire to change things every so often. The difference here is to make sure your doing it for the right reason.

^twonks is making a lot of sense.

Plus (my biased aside) much of what you are looking for in a new bike you already have in the Solaris it would seem.

Stooge is a good suggestion. You can have a whole lot of fun ride tech up + down but not necessarily at speeds beyond reaction times.
I still like to push my technical capability, but in a more controlled way these days.

With hindsight it was probably a mistake to mention the crash at the top of this thread. No matter what I say now it's natural for people to assume that I blame the bike in some way or that I'm looking for a bike to make me crash less often. Neither are true.

The crashes were just the catalyst to make me think more about why I ride. Those thoughts have led me to focus more on a different type or riding. One less focused on downhill speed and more focused on climbing and skills. Sort of anti-enduro, if you like. The Five isn't really designed for that type of riding, which is why it probably has to go.

Not sure a Jones or a Fatbike really fit the bill either (sorry Euain).

Maybe the Solaris will end up being the best option (which would be great), but I might as well think about some other options.

Now that I've got the question sorted out maybe I'd be better starting a new thread. Thanks for all your help.

You dont get much benefit from FS for climbing and skills, so it does sound like HT is your answer...

You dont get much benefit from FS for climbing and skills, so it does sound like HT is your answer

What about if the climb gets technical (rocks, roots etc)? Doesn't the extra traction help? Or would you still go for an HT?

My own view is HT. Yes FS will aid traction and tracking rear wheel but I think the HT would still have it.

You may well be right. Thanks.

Commencal Hip Hop? Playful but slack enough, 26 inch wheels, 100mm of rear travel?

DMR Bolt? 125mm of travel. Heavyish, but has a nice feel from the steel frame and snappy suspension that's good for jumping?

On One Codeine? Stumpy 29er?

I'd agree with some of the advice you've been give though, a bike won't slow you down unless it's a total pile of crap that scares the living daylights out of you.

My Soul makes me ride more carefully than I did on my Five. The Five will take everything in its stride. The Soul makes me pick my lines and slows me up, which is a good thing even if it's harder to ride.

FWIW, I broke a collarbone in 2007, was off the bike for 18 months cos it wouldn't mend. Started riding again, fell off and broke the scapula on the other side! Loved the Soul but seriously felt like selling it after falling off it twice. I lost faith I could go for a ride without breaking myself - the second crash was harder to deal with in that respect. Mentally that was a difficult rut to get out of.

Luckily I have a friend who's a guide and a coach and I mentioned this to him. We did 3 separate sessions - my brief to him was to help me give me basic confidence back and sort my head out, with a focus on dealing with jumps and drops (lack of confidence in this had led to the first crash).

I've not looked back and not had a big crash since.

So not ignoring your points OP, but repeated crashing made me seriously consider changing the bike but it was sorting my head out with training that helped me the most.

Meh, I take the same lines on a hardtail as I would on my mega. Maybe I'm a tit or it's because I grew up riding hardtails to begin with. I only put serious time on a full susser over a hardtail when riding long rocky descents like the WC track at Fort William. That might be because I might not be pushing it that much anymore...

I guess he might go slower on a hardtail, whether he'd actually be safer due to the loss of grip at the back is another story.

If he's just riding trail centres with technical descents on par or easier than CyB then I would say he won't end up going that much slower.

Personally, by the way he's described his riding I think he will be far safer on a full susser. I've been riding MTB for 20 years now (since I was 6-7). ALL of the nastiest crashes I've had, have been on hardtails. Rag dolling down the Pleney run in Morzine after losing the back end on a straight (good ol' braking bumps) when riding my Santa Cruz Chameleon was one of those.

I've got to be honest, having read a number of your threads over the last year or so questioning the handling characteristics of every bike you've owned and/or ridden (and I've ridden most of them too), you spend WAY too much time over analysing everything!

You sold your FF29 because it was too twitchy? For what? For who? Fantastic frame IMO, it's fast and responsive for a modern 29er granted, but compared to a 1990's super steep XC race bike it's positively relaxed! I ride a Sync, essentially the Ti version of the FF29 and can assure you it goes down hills as fast as just about anything else...

The Five sounds maybe a bit overkill for some of the riding you are doing, but then if you're still crashing you are finding the limits of it's (or rather your) ability, which probably isn't the bikes fault. Sounds like you just need to practice riding it more, spend time learning where your limits are. Don't always ride at 10/10ths, the guys that do are the ones always in hospital. Trails can still be a lot of fun (and only fractionally slower) at 7/10ths pace, you're not racing anyone (unless you actually have a number on the bike and have paid an entry fee), so just ease off fractionally and focus on being smooth. Once you learn how to be smooth, pace will naturally come...

dont know why you are averse to a 650b, they are brilliant, the new Transition Scout will be awesome (apart from the name)
maybe Scout Bandit would be better

dont know why you are averse to a 650b, they are [s]brilliant[/s]practically the same,

As with the What can I do as they cancelled the rocket, you need to get over 650b, it's the future/only option for non 29r bikes. (and before we get 20 pages just go outside scream at the sky falling in and move on it's happened. Pop another betamax on and don't forget to set the teasmaid for the morning)

For the OP, perhaps changing how/where you ride might help? Moving to a shorter travel more XC style bike probably won't.

I think a hardtail is defo the answer here. It will make you ride smarter and really look toward getting more flow out of your ride.
A stanton slackline with adjustable travel fork would be everything you need, 2 different bikes at the flick of a switch

I've got a five and totally see why if you can't go hard on the downs you want a bike that's more forgiving on the climbs. If I were to sell mine for something short travel it would be replaced with a yeti sb5, a Santa Cruz solo or a giant anthem x1.

Transition Klunker?

That way you'll be too scared to go fast.

An anthem 29 fits your requirements perfectly I'd say (and no, I don't own one!)

same situation, got a fatbike, love it.

I've just gone the other way but do understand you OP.

Having owned and loved some great hardtails over the years, I got rid of a Rocky Mountain HT XC machine and in it's place have a 6" FS - A Norco Fluid. A similar bike to the Five.

I have a bad feeling that my next crash will be worse on the FS than it was on a hard tail. I don't think it's the speed that makes things exciting, it's the nearing the edge of control that does. This is faster on a DH orientated bike than a hardtail. It's faster on say a Chameleon than a 90mm forked, lightweight hardtail. Therefore, I understand your thinking; it makes sense to me. I'm only 30 but see myself swapping the Norco for a shorter travel FS in 5+ years after enjoying the extra speed I have at the moment.

I don't know if a hardtail would slow you down and keep you safer. Something like an SC Tallboy seems to fit the bill for what you described.

Another suggestion for a hardtail here.

It will slow you down and make you think about your riding and line choice a little more, i definitely concentrate more when riding a hardtail as opposed to riding a FS which can seem like a big comfy mountain bike shaped armchair at times.

My FS lured me into riding things i wouldnt usually try....and most of the time it looked after me and i got away with it....but i didnt develop as a rider, i just pointed it downhill and let it plough its way through anything, it was a bit of a blunt implement.

Been on my current hardtail for most of this year now and can ride everything i used to on the FS but a little slower and with a little more thought, i feel more confident and seem to have a better feel and understanding for what the bike is doing underneath me....and most importantly i'm enjoying riding and having fun again.

The FS had the ability to turn somewhere like Swinley into a snore-fest because the bike was so capable and just flattened the trail, i've ridden there recently on my hardtail and its like a different set of trails...really enjoyable again...so much so that i have the funds to buy a FS again but i'm quite happily building up two hardtails at the moment (140mm 26er and 150mm 27.5er) and will probably race them next year.

Do the hardtail thing, get something in steel that's nice and forgiving, enjoy the lack of maintenance, fall back in love with the classic looks and directness of the handling!

1 keep the bike
2 go on a skills course
3 ride less challenging trails.

or you could just face the fact that you are never likely to improved so buy a road bike, Lycra and meet some nice men to cycle with lol