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Does anyone know why the prices of Salsa components have gone up quite so much recently?
A few months ago(ish) I was looking at getting a set of Cowbell 2s and a Guide stem for a new build but they've now gone up by about £16 and £8 respectively! The bars are now listed at £86 on Charlie The Bikemonger which seems wild for a set of alu bars.
Because Brexit.
Everything imported, especially anything involving USD will be going up, if it hasn't done already. Simple exchange rate economics 🙁
£ < $
Blame the refugees
Does anyone know why the prices of Salsa components have gone up quite so much recently?
Have you been in a coma for the last 3 months?
Marathons are called Snickers now 🙂
Not just Brexit, new UK distributor for 2016. Prices went up quite a bit (and they were already high). Its no wonder you dont see them very much now, has anyone seen an LBS with 2016/17 Salsa bikes on display?
Simply a result of the falling pound. Unless goods have been bought at a previous exhange rate then you are going to be looking at a 10-20% increase. Not sure when the pound was last this low against the dollar. Here's the twelve month data
Dollar: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business/market_data/currency/11/12/twelve_month.stm
Euro: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business/market_data/currency/11/13/twelve_month.stm
I wonder what happened in late June?
Salsas have always been pricey. When they got the new distributor they got even pricier. Now exchange rates.
Even as a Salsa owner I'd say they're not worth the money.
Definitely a pre-Brexit thing, Salsa prices seemed to be £ = 2 x $ 😯 😥
Shame, the new Vaya looks lovely.
Big list price but Salsas always seem(ed) to have big discounts end of season whereas surly seem more steady and less model year driven.
Have you been on the moon OP? Pound has been falling for months because of fear of brexit before it then fell even more because of actual brexit. We have dragged the euro down with us apparently and international finance types have been Buying dollars.
First they came for the marmite, then the salsas. Next year it will be iPhones, cars, clothes, diesel...
I just hadn't noticed quite such huge changes on other brands etc and wondered if there was something specific to do with Salsa.
Did Ison not having something to do with importing Salsa? I remember Billy's knocking out stupidly cheap horsethiefs and Spearfish frames then they went crazy expensive after the distributor changed. Its a shame as its all really good stuff, my spearfish was mega quick.
Not a chance I'd buy one now though...
It was Ison but it was always an uneasy relationship. It seemed QBP would redirect stock to the US market even when Ison were promised shipments. Any ETA dates on the Ison B2B site could only ever be regarded as speculative. I'd hoped the move to Raleigh would improve things but I guess there's little can be done about exchange rates.
had a couple of salsa stems in the past.....very basic imho.
I would rather pay a bit more for a nice Thomson stem.
It was Ison, but Raleigh took over last year IIRC. Some of the stuff was silly prices anyway e.g. Maxle alternators
When I had an El Mariachi I looked at the cost of a Ti one. Frame only was around 1,600 - and it went up the following year. A full custom Ti frame can be had from someone like Burls or Pact for £1,100.
Woodsmoke ugly tax
It was Ison, then it was D.I.Y for a while before Raleigh took over. Raleigh don't seem to be pushing the brand that hard.
As an aside is comparing and El Mar and the others totally fair? Do you get butted/formed tubing, adjustable dropouts, etc for £1100?
Not that I'm suggesting Salsa have ever been bargains!
. Yeah, but look how short the stays are in a 29+. And I won't be able to see the bike when I'm riding it.Woodsmoke ugly tax
History lesson:
Was ison
Then I looked after them, no distributor, but buying direct from salsa.
Raleigh now have them, and whilst it may look more expensive, some things are now coming down. It's all about cunning shipping and supply chain and avoiding unnecessary costs. And if you want a 2016 frame, ask me, we can find deals... 01929 475833, just tell me what model and size, and I will get back to you with a great price.
The components have jumped up, but this stuff is being paid for in USD, and it's gone from $1.60 to $1.20 over a couple of years. And most of that is since the referendum was announced, and then the results, and then drops again after May's hard brexit speech.
This is going to be a massive issue for the bike trade and bike buying folk. Thanks specifically to brexit, everything is costing a lot more. Folk need to wake up and look at where there money is going. cigarettes , wine, petrol, food, MARMITE, clothing, vehicles, bikes, even components made in the uk use imported alloy... its all going to cost more.
A local chef moaned yesterday "just been fleeced at the corner shop, packet of tabaco has gone up £3"... you are not being fleeced, you are paying the same going rate (in the country where it's made).
So your LBS, and all the other companies in the bike trade now have to sell kit that is 20% more expensive in a world where people have less money.
I roughly reckon if you take home £2,000 a month you might get £150 left over for beer and bikes (after mortgage, rent, finance, food, kids etc). Well that £150 is going to be taken by the increase in food petrol etc.
Wait til VW pass on the new euro exchange rate. A £36,000 vw Komi van pre-brexit, is now costing almost £46,000 if you apply the current exchange rate (Was 1.4 euro, now 1.1 euro). Will we have to add an import duty to that in two years, 10%, a £50,000 van? Its going to be a super tough time to be a car salesman.
You may start to see brands disappearing from the uk market, or dramatically downsizing what they offer... as product ranges become less viable, and we are all fighting over consumers with less money. Already this week I have seen one brand go because the new exchange rate means the product will be just too expensive. Some companies would rather sell nothing right now, rather than have product they can't sell. Being out of stock is efficient compared to having money tied up in unviable stock that won't sell. Triumph have a new motorbike, just launched it, but with no published prices or ETA?
And then you have the uncertainty. No one is investing, most companies are holding back, recruitment and new project plans are being put on hold whilst this mess settles. A few companies are leaving the UK. job losses have started.
And that is a very long way of saying... they are great bars, buy them, before they go up again.
Already this week I have seen one brand go because the new exchange rate means the product will be just too expensive
Which brand, if you can say?
How much would Reynolds in Birmingham charge me for a 631 tubeset dimensioned to a Fargo as a 'raw material for framebuilding to a mid sized company in the UK?
The rise in costs of the raw materials to Reynolds, still in absolute terms to me is manageable for the final product price because the greatest added value hasn't been added yet.
If we take recent events to their conclusion, and we are lucky enough to have the greatest worldwide steel tube manufacturer in our country, will Cotic, Stanton, Stooge look at building frames here?
Not sure Cy would want to go down that route again. 😯
Not sure Cy would want to go down that route again.
Never 100% clear what went wrong there...
The rise in costs of the raw materials to Reynolds, still in absolute terms to me is manageable for the final product price because the greatest added value hasn't been added yet.
This is indeed true - the tubes on your bike comprise a very small proportion of the cost.
If we take recent events to their conclusion, and we are lucky enough to have the greatest worldwide steel tube manufacturer in our country, will Cotic, Stanton, Stooge look at building frames here?
We only have the brand here - the tubes still come from China in the main part. Either way, the cost of manufacture in the UK is still high relative to Taiwan, even with the currency swing. The saving grace for small bike companies that assemble in the UK may be the imposition of EU trade tariffs. If you assemble in the UK already you're already paying import duty on almost everything you use, but the imposition of tariffs on products coming from the EU would seriously dent the value of bikes like Canyon and YT, which would be a good thing for companies not reliant on EU sales to support their business.
As Charlie says though the big issue is that everyone is likely to get a lot poorer post-brexit, at least in the mid term as we can't just turn off our importation pipeline, and all that stuff will get much more expensive sucking money out of our economy and sending it overseas, so that will hurt a lot of shops and companies of all types. I'd expect to see quite a few go over the coming years.
The other notable effect may be the dimishing amount of Shimano you see on bikes in the mid term, the yen strengthening has made Shimano quite expensive now. Very expensive against the pound, but 10% or so up even against the dollar, which will make alot of bike companies think twice about whether that next model will be SRAM or Shimano equipped.
Whatever the pricing policy of Salsa, combined with Brexit et al, a 2017 Fargo frameset is now to cost me £950.
I'd imagine a Reynolds tubeset (and they still make tubes in Birmingham) lets say 631, I reckon must cost £50-£100 ballpark.
At what point is someone in the UK going to start welding these together, with the same geometry, lets say £300 for labour plus VAT, lets say ballpark £450 and have a business..in the Fargo's case a simpler bike than the 2017 without boost, able to run a triple and normal 2.2-4 29 tyres is still all it needs. Still import a cheap £60 carbon chinese fork.
I take it you've not run a frame building business?
No, but I do have my own business. The person starting the business needs to be a young framebuilder doing it in his garage with no overhead.
How many hours does it take to weld a frame to a standard dimension, not a custom job, when you've geared up and say going to do an identical batch run. Ballpark?
Assuming you're right thats many times the cost of doing it in Taiwan, and not because the Taiwan welding and finishing is inferior, I'd wager its probably better, at least would be for some time if you want any kind of scale, until the local workforce is up to speed that is.say £300 for labour plus VAT
[quote=milfordvet ]How much would Reynolds in Birmingham charge me for a 631 tubeset dimensioned to a Fargo as a 'raw material for framebuilding to a mid sized company in the UK?
The rise in costs of the raw materials to Reynolds, still in absolute terms to me is manageable for the final product price because the greatest added value hasn't been added yet.
If we take recent events to their conclusion, and we are lucky enough to have the greatest worldwide steel tube manufacturer in our country, will Cotic, Stanton, Stooge look at building frames here?
Have you looked at what other steel frame makers are doing - like Shand? I'm sure he'd be happy to put together a Fargo-alike frame for you.
What prices are in made steel frames?
£400+vat?
Erm...
Tubing prices on Colombus tubing at ceeway is about £150. 631 would be more I guess?
How much these small builders in a shed charge shows what it would cost. Can't imagine you'd get anyone decent for under £7-800.
£50 for a tubeset in the UK? Hahaha! Only if you were making thousands of frames. For a one-off that wouldn't buy you 2 quality main tubes.
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I was looking at the ragley bigwig at Chain reaction and see the rrp is up a hundred quid to £549! £100 increase. That's mental but I'm resigned to it being the norm
"At what point is someone in the UK going to start welding these together, with the same geometry, lets say £300 for labour plus VAT, lets say ballpark £450 and have a business..in the Fargo's case a simpler bike than the 2017 without boost, able to run a triple and normal 2.2-4 29 tyres is still all it needs. Still import a cheap £60 carbon chinese fork"
How would you compete with on one and the £199 fluctuating price of an inbred?
[quote=damascus ]How would you compete with on one and the £199 fluctuating price of an inbred?Let the customer service department make outgoing calls?
The Shand Driver is their Fargo copy, steel frame/ carbon fork and they've price matched it to £980 for the frameset.
Scotroutes, good point!
Px customer service and quality issues aside I think I'd rather deal with px rather than some spoty kid in a shed who may or may not have insurance.
[quote=milfordvet ]The Shand Driver is their Fargo copy, steel frame/ carbon fork and they've price matched it to £980 for the frameset.
That extra £30 is just for the effort of applying the Shand decals over the Salsa ones (allegedly).
At what point is someone in the UK going to start welding these together, with the same geometry, lets say £300 for labour plus VAT, lets say ballpark £450 and have a business
Except that's not a business.
Where's the money to pay rent, heating, consumables, tool depreciation, contents insurance, goods-in-transit insurance, product liability insurance, public liability, paint, shipping costs, shipping boxes, packaging, NI/PAYE, warranty, advertising, marketing, office costs, accountancy costs... see where I'm going with this?
Mr Shand,
How much is the raw tubing frame cost from someone like Reynolds or Columbus for the frame not fork part?
How many hours is it for cutting and welding etc before paint, if your doing a batch of medium Drovers?
Genuinely I'm ignorant of this. Furnish me with some ballparks...
Where's the money to pay rent, heating, consumables, tool depreciation, contents insurance, goods-in-transit insurance, product liability insurance, public liability, paint, shipping costs, shipping boxes, packaging, NI/PAYE, warranty, advertising, marketing, office costs, accountancy costs... see where I'm going with this?
no I don't get your point
lot of eu-based companies are already selling cheap quality frames and components, where they fall short is (not) listening the market
It's been years since Fargo is selling like hot cakes despite high prices... last year the frames went sold out before the season even begun!
And what is planet-x offering on the same segment? nothing!!! They're still offering Inbred with an outdated geometry.
A inbred frame is sold at 200£... the cost of the same amount of steel with a (proper) adventure geometry can't be far from that.
This is where Surly/Salsa are successful: they listen to the market, and this has nothing to do with rent and heating costs
Generally loving the shand bikes apart from the kinked downtube.