MegaSack DRAW - 6pm Christmas Eve - LIVE on our YouTube Channel
Thanks for the link Pook. I've joined the FB page.
We met (again) with Peak Horsepower on Tuesday. It was a very positive meeting and there's plenty of news on our website.
[url= http://www.peakdistrictmtb.org/index.php/62-peak-horsepower-meeting-december-9th ]http://www.peakdistrictmtb.org/index.php/62-peak-horsepower-meeting-december-9th[/url]
Having seen the video (9 posts up), and looked at the pictures in the PDMTB report they made for DCC - I would say the trail needed no remedial or resurfacing work at all.
If it does need remedial or resurfacing work: I can't see how covering the whole trail in fist and baby head sized rocks benefits walkers or horse riders - it must make it a lot harder to walk (biped or quadruped).
Is that video of the section of trail that is being done by DCC?
P.S. Thanks to everyone who is doing something about this, whatever it may be.
How about everyone removes one chunk of rock each time they use the trail? The steps will soon be clear? 🙂 [Sorry.]
Apologies for being a bit late to the part and not knowing all the ins and outs. Lots of interesting reading. I'd just like to say that I wish DCC would realise that they work for the people who live in and/or enjoy the countywide of Derbyshire.
It's worth noting that the big lumps of rock aren't the finished article. they are the work in progress. There's a finer gristone layer to go over the top of that. They paused to works hence the part-job.
Thanks Pook.
The smooth trail surfaces in the pics in the "DCC previous" bit of the PDMTB report are VERY DEPRESSING. I only hope that enough walkers DIE OF BOREDOM on them that DCC is forced to reconsider.
You'd have to learn how to bunny hop over them 😉
Pook I admire your optimism but the peak district is being turned into a glorified trail centre. Soon only the footpaths will be gnarr enough for us. What plans do they have for cut gate?
If there is spare rocks/cash they should fill the ruts on the Roman Road.
Because they are so deep in water all users are by-passing the main track and damaging the surface each side of it.
Regarding unsympathetic dressings: Walkers have commented to me that Edale Road (Coldwell up to the back of Kinder) is hard work to walk on since spud sized stones were scattered.
Hard work is an understatement 🙁
We lost our sticky!
Was there any consultation on that?
Are there any updates as to what is or isn't happening?
PDMTB, Ride Sheffield, Friends of the Peak and DCC had a site visit last Tuesday. We have subsequently met to discuss the outcome and hope to get something up on the website ASAP. We have until mid-January to reply to their proposals. In the meantime work still continues to build alliances with fellow outdoor enthusiasts so keep on sharing that festive spirit to people you meet on the trials.
Firstly, a huge thanks to all our supporters for the time and effort they have put in over the last year to raise our profile and make us a strong organisation to represent the voices of those who love the Peak District.
On 2 December 2015, Peak District MTB met with Derbyshire County Council (DCC) to discuss the work on Rushup Edge and other works in the Peak District. Ride Sheffield, Keeper of the Peak, the British Mountaineering Council (BMC) and Friends of the Peak (FOTP) District were also in the meeting to discuss the issue at hand. At the time we provided a brief update on the meeting, since then PDMTB has had chance to put together this, a more detailed report. Also included is a report from the site meeting which was requested subsequently to the main meeting with DCC. The site meeting happened on Tuesday 16th December and also included Ride Sheffield and FOTP. DCC has requested that the user groups provide a formal response to their proposed work on Rushup Edge / Chapel Gate by the 16th of January 2015. PDMTB will put forward its own response along with other groups. We hope there will be a lot of constructive comments. Until then we believe all work on Rushup Edge is on hold.
It's a long and detailed report so here's an 'Executive Summary', if you want to read the full report and site visit update, please click the 'read more' link.
Exec Summary:
PDMTB’s conclusion:
Following the meeting and site visit PDMTB has concluded the following:
1) Derbyshire County Council’s current plans for Rushup Edge have been barely modified and remain unacceptable to the vast majority of users of the Peak District.
2) Derbyshire County Council has failed to provide adequate justification for the works proposed.
3) Derbyshire County Council has a poor understanding of the needs of this trail as evidenced by their lack of research into user groups and their needs.
4) Derbyshire County Council cannot forecast any increased usage after the work and has not evidenced this after previous work on other routes.,
5) Derbyshire County Council has no consideration of the sustainability, long term environmental and economic impact of the proposed work.
6) Derbyshire County Council is unable determine the cost of the work or commit to any form of maintenance in the future:
“We don’t know how much a project is going to cost until we have finished it”
7) Derbyshire County Council has a history of inadequate consultation and reflection of user groups’ views in similar works. We are yet to be convinced that they have learnt their lessons.
PDMTB’s proposed response to Derbyshire County Council’s proposals for Rushup Edge:
We demand that DCC:
1) remove all materials that have been placed on the route and return it to its original state.
2) that all maintenance is as sensitive, minimal and sustainable as possible and we believe that can be achieved in a cost efficient manner.
3) if maintenance is unavoidable, we request the current materials are removed and replace with a planned and designed stone setting approach to reasonably accommodate all amenity users as has been achieved on a nearby route.
4) should the larger steps be removed we request smaller steps remain and that solid bedrock is left intact and visible remaining consistent with the nature of the trail.
For the full report follow this link - [url= http://www.peakdistrictmtb.org/index.php/65-pdmtb-update-6-january-2015 ]clickety[/url]
Thanks for the update - will read the full report.
Made me chuckle that summary, thanks for the update. Looking like a LAF meeting took place today / tonight too.
DCC are slippery bar stewards! The PDMTB response is good but I just can't see DCC moving from their position though. The terminator was more inclined to compromise than DCC. Why on earth it has to be roadworthy when vehicles are banned from using it I don't know?
Update on that LAF meeting on the 8th: http://www.peakdistrictmtb.org/index.php/67-local-access-forum-rushup-edge-chapel-gate-meeting-8th-january
Very interesting to hear all but one group were NOT in favour of flattening the trails.
The only ones who were, were the Disabled Ramblers group. And the ones who DCC are using to support their "argument" / "vision" of the countryside.
Also good to note the social media campaign put a dent in DCC's sizeable ego.
Surely the disabled gamblers group can see the value in leaving technical trail alone. These will be the focal spot for mountain bikers. Instead, if ever trail is paved then every trail will have high speed users on it which I assume would be detrimental to disabled ramblers.
I still think that the problem is that rights of way are still looked at as a means of people moving around (which they historically were) instead of the leisure facility they have become. I wouldn't deny disabled users the right to move about freely but I do think it's wrong to take a leisure facility away from a large group of users to hand it over at great expense to a much smaller group of users. Keep in mind that suitable trails already exist for all. We're discussing the shifting proportion of trail types.
disabled gamblers
??
My thought was where on Earth are they going to park? The layby on Rushup Edge isn't exactly capacious. But I see that crop up in the report.
Well done to PDMTB on progress made over the past few months in getting a toe in the door.
It was interesting to have DCC point out to PDMTB that the social media campaign had caused them significant disruption.
In a previous comment I said that I didn't think posting comments on facebook would make any difference. It is very nice to be proven wrong. Well done to everybody that did post on DCC facebook. I just hope that DCC can find it in themselves to admit that they were wrong to start the work and that the decent thing to do would be to return the trail to its previous state.
Onzadog I agree with your comment regarding disabled access, ruining things for the majority is not the way to go. It is just not practical to make every single trail accessible for disabled people and you have to draw a line somewhere.
I never been to the area but I'm assuming whatever the surface that you wouldn't be inclined (!) to push a wheel chair up there.
Well I've just had a quick look at the Disabled Ramblers website and I'm pretty impressed by the terrain they take on. I was surprised to find very little activity in the Peak though, which might well point to a lack of suitable trails - thought I can think of quite a few which they might tackle without any further resurfacing work.
I'm not at all convinced Rushup Edge is a good choice for such development - it's not even one of the better viewpoints in the area.
Onzadog I agree with your comment regarding disabled access, ruining things for the majority is not the way to go. It is just not practical to make every single trail accessible for disabled people and you have to draw a line somewhere.
DCC might have had a case if they could have demonstrated that the route was being used or would have had much higher usage from disabled users had they actually done any consulting but they've kind of dug their own grave with this one. Hopefully they've learnt their lesson.
DCC have conducted no surveys of users on the path. They simply have no idea who or how many people go up there.
[url= http://www.ridesheffield.org.uk/2015/01/peak-local-access-forum-rushup-edge-meeting/ ]ridesheffield local access forum meeting write up[/url]
The link above gives a slightly different perspective than that given by PDMTB. The disabled ramblers group seem hell bent on vandalising the trail to make it accessible to them, while I understand why they want access to the trail I don't agree that it should be flattened for them.
It is good to see that peak horsepower are supportive of mountain bikers.
Access for all. Ace.
The disabled access is a card I remember being played before. So they are going to make from the road to Mam Nick all passable for the disabled?
When the "campsite descent" was done in Hayfield I remember mention of disabled access. Sure the easy access bits that were cheap to do were done. The narrow sunken bit was left alone though, as it would have cost a load of money to do.
There are a number of FPs that are similar. Fix the easy bits, so it looks like they are being useful. Ignore the bits that are expensive to do.
If you were in an offroad wheelchair round here, you'd get pretty nifty at doing U-Turns as the improved BWs and FPs turn to impassable.
DCC asked Peak District MTB - amongst others such as Ride Sheffield, Peak District Local Access Forum, KoftheP, Ride Sheffield and friends of the Peak District - to submit a formal response to their Rushup Edge plans.
Here it is. Interesting alliance forming
[url= http://www.peakdistrictmtb.org/index.php/70-rushup-edge-our-official-response-to-derbyshire-county-council ]http://www.peakdistrictmtb.org/index.php/70-rushup-edge-our-official-response-to-derbyshire-county-council[/url]
Good stuff dan
Let's hope that now its gone above Peter White's head, he might get a forceful sense check from above.
PDMTB, Ride Sheffield and Keeper of the peak all made good responses. I am not so impressed with the LAF response though. Any concessions made to the disabled ramblers could have ramifications for the whole of the Edale loop.
We may yet see DCC use access for as it's trump card. Stanage Long Causeway was lauded as a great improvement for the use of the Tramper.
These are videos of Stanage & Rushup showing the Tramper in action.
Long Causeway:
Chapel Gate:
The spec mentioned at the LAF was for a surface with no more than a 5" step every 5' to enable a Tramper to pass, more than that and it is too bumpy to be comfortable. There is also a declared intent on the DR website to have gates & stiles etc removed to aid access. It's a veritable minefield of rights, legal issues and specifications and DCC may yet use them to try and thwart us.
We may yet see DCC use access for as it's trump card. Stanage Long Causeway was lauded as a great improvement for the use of the Tramper.
They are almost certainly lining that one up for use, aren't they? 'Inspecting repairs' in January - you can almost see the email trail between the DRs and DCC Highways Dept.
I wonder how many disabled ramblers on trampers actually use Chapelgate or the Long Causeway?
The Tramper looks totally unsuitable for off road. Is there not an electric quad bike?
I've just made the thousandth comment on this thread.
I have nowt to say.
Unbelievable! DCC are ruining an area of natural beauty to make it accessible for just how many disabled people??? At the expense of everybody else that uses the trail.
Can we get a mod to put back as a sticky? I get the feeling that the fight to save our trails has only just begun. Where are DR going to strike next? The whole peak district is up for grabs!
I think perhaps a more constructive approach would be to work with the DR to help them identify paths which we all agree could be developed.
Pook has a good point and we have sent our response to DCC over to DR and asked if they would share theirs with us. Hope fully if we can both see where the other is coming from we can reach some form of compromise.
At the LAF meeting they stressed that Rushup Edge / Chapel Gate is a BOAT and therefore a highway and should be surfaced accordingly. This negates the fact that there is far better highway, built by the Highways Authority 50m to the south. The problem seems to be as has been pointed out earlier, this is more of a failure of the designations to keep pace with the changing environment around Rushup Edge / Chapel Gate
Parallel trails? The walkers already go up on the banks to get a better view when they walk, why not have a well packed down smoother trail to one side of the rockier trail? Not ideal in terms of visual impact, but would be great to have access for all paired with keeping interesting trail surfaces.
Kelvin - that came up at the LAF meeting.
There was general interest in that approach but...
1. DCC are only interested in the highway, that's the bit with the steps, the rest of the are to either side belongs to the landowner and using it is, technically, trespass.
2. It would be PDNPA that would have to approach the landowner to explore the acceptability of doing this to their land as DCC are not interested.
3. There would be a consideration of the change in nature of the landscape and that would probably not be supported by quite a few other user groups.
4. We were advised at the meeting that there's no cash available at the moment for something like this.
So it all boils down to a motorised wheelchair that can't cope with the terrain.Surely a better wheel chair is the answer.
In the promo video it shows a lady using their Tramper on the beach. I can guarantee she will get stuck in the sand. People are expecting to be able to do what the adverts show them.
Reality needs to kick in.
+1 zippykona
It appears the argument is that because this vehicle exists and is intended for a similar application, that the countryside should be adapted in order to allow it to be used in areas where it is not designed to be used.
I'd like to drive my Ford Focus over houndkirk moor. Please could it be tarmaced?
I'd like to drive my Ford Focus over houndkirk moor. Please could it be tarmaced?
No, you can get out and walk like most other able bodied people
Ha! Tell that to the convoy of quad bikes this morning.
The point is that it's the vehicle rather than the disability that seems to be deciding what the council do to the trail.
How do we know they won't bring out a #enduro tramper next year that can get up and down the steps with ease, rendering the repairs pointless?
Horses for courses as they say. This is the wrong course for that horse.
Agreed… a proper off-road mini vehicle is required. They must exist? If not, the world needs them.
The TRO for Chapelgate
If you are in a vehicle approved as an invalid carriage then you are ok to use
Peak Horsepower were also asked to respond officially to Derbyshire County Council's plans for Rushup Edge and have shared it with Peak District MTB. Added to the [url= http://www.peakdistrictmtb.org/index.php/70-rushup-edge-our-official-response-to-derbyshire-county-council ]existing article[/url] on website or view it directly [url= http://www.peakdistrictmtb.org/images/PDFs/PHP_Chapel_Gate_repair_response_to_DCC.pdf ]here[/url].
Have I entirely missed the point.... That reads to me like peak horsepower want the whole lot flattened as any other surface is dangerous to horses or carriages.
Whilst they agree that the current work is unsuitable they seem to advocate a soft, smooth, permanant surface, like the chapel gate track...... That's not ideal is it?????
Have I entirely missed the point.... That reads to me like peak horsepower want the whole lot flattened as any other surface is dangerous to horses or carriages.
Whilst they agree that the current work is unsuitable they seem to advocate a soft, smooth, permanant surface, like the chapel gate track...... That's not ideal is it?????
No, but you can't really fault Peak Horsepower for representing the interests of its members any more than you can the disabled rambler guys for sticking up for their's. I wonder how on earth you'd create a sustainable soft surface in what's basically a whopping great drainage trough.
And there seem to be a lot of unsupported assumptions about the original state of the track and whether exposed bedrock was part of it.
One thing that does seem mildly insane is the idea that DCC is responsible for the upkeep of the track because it's technically a road. But motorised traffic is now banned from it. You couldn't make it up.
That's a point I've made throughout john. They are applying a set of rules on the strength of technicality to force their plan through.
It's all mad. Like getting the SAS in because there's mouse in your back garden... 😉
For the route to be useable by horse-drawn carriages
Who has ever seen a horse drawn carriage on a BW in the Peak?
I have lived in Derbyshire all my life and in the Peak District for the last 13 years and the only horse and carriages I have seen were on the A6 near Bakewell never off road
Who has ever seen a horse drawn carriage on a BW in the Peak?
We moved our committee meetings to a new, more convenient [s]venue[/s] pub and were talking to the landlady about all this. Guess what...she was a carriage driver 🙂
She commented that she really doesn't have a huge choice of places to ride. Often she has right of way but is physically unable to get the carriage onto the route and ends up riding on the road. Maybe the reason that rare sightings of carriage drivers are on the road is [i]because[/i] they have so little choice to ride off-road.
So peak horsepower want to smooth the surface of the entire route? Mountain bikes will be going down it at light-speed, they are basically suggesting turning the peak district into a trail centre.
You know when that horse meat scandal came out, I wasn't really that bothered. Just saying like 😈
Just hope they berm the corners up a bit.
be afarid very afraid fo peak horsepower.. massive support/backing and its them first and blow everyone else..
Just a thought. Wheelchair users are allowed to use their electric conveyances on footpaths.
Should there be a programme of making rural footpaths accessible to them? It might mean removing stiles and such but why should they be restricted to bridle ways?
It's all gone quiet, any more news?
Most of the sunken road section is covered in snow currently as it's in the shade it's stayed on the ground.
No idea what the discussions have produced folate though
Mr Peter White, our friend at DCC, tells me that he is currently collating responses with the intention of passing his findings from consultation to the councillors in March.
Just a thought. Wheelchair users are allowed to use their electric conveyances on footpaths.
Should there be a programme of making rural footpaths accessible to them? It might mean removing stiles and such but why should they be restricted to bridle ways?
There is a lot of work to do this. Stiles can also be replaced with gates with radar keys (the type of key that also opens disabled toilets). Accessible Derbyshire are looking at which areas would be sensible to do things like that in Derbyshire. It's not just wheelchairs: think people with dodgy arms or legs, pushchairs, scooters, buggies don't like stiles either. There are plenty of places where this could be a great idea: think Longshaw estate, Curbar edge, Chatsworth. They also have ideas for Barbrook Valley but they've been up there recently and realised it's a bit wild for a lot of people with disabilities and are looking at getting people who are a bit more adventurous out there on trikes.
http://www.accessiblederbyshire.org
So Barbrook valley is a bit wild, but they're looking to make Rushup Edge accesible??
Just heard that notices have gone up on the bakewell golf course decent. Are we already defending this one?
? Whats happening to that descent?
[url= http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,25544.0.html ]http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,25544.0.html[/url]
BBC Countryfile Sunday, from the Peaks, items include 'making the countryside accessible for the disabled.'
Has anyone contacted pdmtb about it? Do we get to voice our opinion.
Literally just seen it in the TV mag. I don't recall any mention of anything Countryfile related anywhere, so I'm guessing it's just a one sided 'positive spin' piece.
http://ht.ly/M35IO @CraigGrimes
It's at Dove Stones. This doesn't look remotely controversial. PD MTB are actually forming great relations with Accessible Derbyshire, the local group: watch this space for more details later in the year...
My sources tell me Accessible Derbyshire is also on. Great stuff.
Accessible Derbyshire are the sensible folks. Good to know they're involved
Yup
[url= http://www.peakdistrictmtb.org/index.php/77-dcc-publish-an-intent-to-undertake-70k-of-work-on-the-roman-road ]Roman road is going to get blitzed![/url]
OMG! Not content with ruining the rest of the peak district DCC are planning more devastation.
heavy heavy sigh
