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Just had a call from a gentleman from the Chief Exec's office.... been told that the shock has been disposed of. He doesn't know where it is!
I pointed out that he must have records which method of disposal was selected. He confirmed that they would and that he'd find out and get back to me. He told me that it didn't look good and that since the new regulations came into force earlier in the year that this type of situation have caused a lot of problems.
so how do I escalate this?
Sternly worded letter to RM 🙄
Letter to MP
Contact Police
Citizens advice
Trading standards
National news papers
Magazines
Social media
Rogue traders
Watchdog
???
RicB - MemberIt's not wrong; it's theft.
RM has a duty of care to protect its employees from harm by banning and safely disposing of hazardous materials. That's fair enough.
However, those items never become RMs property, so they can't sell them on. They certainly aren't the Ebayer's property to sell.
If I was the OP I'd be tempted to report it to the police.
Totally agreed. "You've sent something that's too dangerous to deliver. Our only option is to [s]destroy it securely[/s] sell it for profit." WTF, frankly.
so how do I escalate this?Sternly worded letter to RM
Letter to MP
Contact Police
Citizens advice
Trading standards
National news papers
Magazines
Social media
Rogue traders
Watchdog
???
All of the above!
Maybe see if the major mags can pick up the story and start the social media off for you, someone (Dave?) from STW has already commented I think.
It's bonkers that RM can do this.
I've been in contact with Dave@STW hopefully this may help apply some additional pressure.
I hope it does hit RM hard, that over time people wont risk anything other than a book or box of tissues. Must admit that recently I sold a few bits on ebay and the cost of postage was just crazy compared to the last time i sold stuff. I lost a bit of money on that lot. I have used parcels2go in the past and been very happy, so i wager that i will just carry on with them. Collection from my place of work also included in a sensible price.
Slighlty OT- I'd be interested to know why the entity that was allowed to buy the most shares (6%)- who they are. Apparently its an offshore company. I think every other company was allowed 3% max?
Sternly worded letter to RM
Letter to MP
Contact Police
Citizens advice
Trading standards
National news papers
Magazines
Social media
Rogue traders
Watchdog
???
All of the above.
Happy to get this one tweeting for you and do some targeted tweets to warn companies not to use RM.
Why not let RM know that you appreciate their assistance so far, but as pointed out previously, they need to prove you did not state contents when posting and believe their T&C of what constitutes a potentially dangerous item are unreasonable. If they cannot locate the item or how they disposed of it, you will report to police as theft.
Subtly mention you don't want to have to start a social media frenzy...
Will be a big can of worms and a PITA for them if they need to start investigating all similar claims....
When ever I buy anything off the web I have to tick a box stating I have read all ther t&cs before letting me proceed.
Surely if they are confiscating goods to sell for profit they should be making people sign something saying they understand all terms and conditions at point of posting.
As the way things are the system is wide open for abuse.
Slighlty OT- I'd be interested to know why the entity that was allowed to buy the most shares (6%)- who they are. Apparently its an offshore company. I think every other company was allowed 3% max?
It was Fox, so they could intercept all their products being sent and re-sell them for profit.
Now to watch to see the buggers try to sell it on. Judging by some of the stuff on those ebay accounts, I'd be surprised if they didn't.
I'd agree with the earlier posts that selling other people's property on without their explicit consent should rank as theft, but they will of course claim that by handing over at the post office, you accepted their spurious t&cs which effectively give them carte blanche to do what they will with your 'dangerous' goods.
Would be nice to see that tested under criminal or civil law, but I imagine the coppers wouldn't be keen to spend their time on that particular grey area.
At least you have someone at head office you can now discuss directly with, as opposed to the nameless and faceless pit of despair that is the usual complaints process.
I gave up on RM for anything valuable after they lost a £30 bike bit. I hadn't insured it because their counter person told me that standard post was covered up to (iirc) £50. So i went with a signed for delivery but no special insurance. So when they lost it, i claimed for my £30 'loss' only to be told that they wouldn't pay it because they had no proof that the contents were worth £30. Even though i emailed them links to the FS thread on here, etc. They reimbursed the cost of the postage, and to rub it in, did it in stamps so in effect no cost to them because the only way i could use them was to send something else!!
Why would the police care? they're just following their Ts & Cs
(Not that I agree with them but I can't see why it could be considered theft or fraud)
I think shouting from the rooftops on social media is the answer but you have to give the chap from head office a chance to do something....he has, after all, got on touch twice
In my experience with RM, requests for records usually result in shrugged shoulders about why they can't find them.
Anyway, makes me think if I was to risk RM for posting a shock, I'd make a note of any serial numbers on it first. Match that on an ebay item and you've definitely got a case of theft. Though RM will of course argue you breached their terms by sending a prohibited item and their terms you could never have read say they can auction the item if they want.
This situation is nuts. Really think I'll stop using them to send anything at all now. That they've gone private I hope means we get competition including for the final mile and for the Post Office.
Why would the police care? they're just following their Ts & Cs
Just because they have T&C doesn't necessarily mean they are 1) enforceable or or 2) legal.
Social media shit storm then legal action. Or threats of legal action then the other two things.
(Not that I agree with them but I can't see why it could be considered theft or fraud)
To paraphrase an example earlier: if you stick a note to your front door saying "if you knock on my door I'm entitled to mug you and take your car", then go through with that, it doesn't stop it being a police matter.
Whether terms and conditions are legally enforceable isn't a police matter...That's for the courts to decide
Just to clarify, i'm not going to kick off straight away. I'll be waiting until I hear back tomorrow before doing anything else. Even then, i'll write to RM first and give them a deadline to respond, 7 days or something.
Escalating things too early can sometimes cause more hassle. You'd be surprised what being polite, respectful but clearly stating your case can achieve.
I'll not bother with the police, can't see that going anywhere.
If the dubious terms and conditions appear to involve the committing of a criminal offence, it is a police matter, theoretically. I tend to agree that in practical terms, no action is likely to result from reporting it as a crime (although the act of reporting it may offer some leverage...and also may make it easier for news organisations to follow it up as a story.)
Well said, OP
It's funny. I was getting my deck built by a bloke that was recommended to me by the local timber yard. One morning the postie saw him and asked if that was (insert name) and I said yeah it was. Postie told me that this fella did time inside for stealing mail. He seemed ok but it proves that it goes on.
In my experience with RM, requests for records usually result in shrugged shoulders about why they can't find them.This situation is nuts. Really think I'll stop using them to send anything at all now. That they've gone private I hope means we get competition including for the final mile and for the Post Office.
^^This. Hopefully privatisation will result in forced competition and with that forced modernisation so that the "don't care" and "do the bare minimum" culture is brought to a halt.
So now if the Royalmails intentions are honourable and genuine measures to protect their staff and not a means to a cash cow.
And they have decided shocks and alike are to be targeted for those reasons should they not be targeting CRC and the likes of.
Or do they have an HHHHRrrrmmm unwritten agreement that they will not be bothered or have to comply with said rules .
Or have we already established that Different t&cs apply to them .
I could be wrong but didn't rm forum link site that different rules apply to Joe Public?
Send a recorded letter (preferably using an alternative delivery company for comedic irony) stating they have 10 working days from receipt of the letter to resolve the issue to your satisfaction
Tell them what you will accept.
Explain your next course of action if the matter isn't solved. Which would, in my opinion, be warning friends and other people via social media about the risks of using RM, and sorting out a court date at your local county court.
I find the court threat works best if done in a rueful manner; 'I really hope you can sort this problem out for me because I hate taking companies to court'. Works for me every time, especially if you've already enquired with the court and quote document titles etc.
Edit - spelling
shouldn't you be able to find out disposal routes / revenues etc through the freedom of information act?
that would be interesting.
Pitchforks at the ready, op.
Totally agreed. "You've sent something that's too dangerous to deliver. Our only option is to destroy it securely sell it for profit." WTF, frankly.
Nutshell.
Privatisation closed the door on FOI requests to RM.
Like most on here, I'm no expert but if they tell you it's been destroyed so that you no longer pursue the matter, but actually, they sell it on, surely that is obtaining good by deception. (theft act 1968 possibly)
I thought the wording was "disposed of"?
If they can't provide proof of safe disposal, I'd take them to the Small Claims Court...
It's astonishing that they can get away with this.
Basically, despite shipping hundreds of shocks each and every day, they can, at random, confiscate and dispose of those that they arbitrarily decide are dangerous?
So despite suspension components not being on a banned list they can still confiscate at their discretion? That makes no sense.
They've basically given themselves a licence to steal whichever items of mail they can make more from by selling then delivering! That's what this comes down to - A simple economic decision to make more money through theft.
Of course it's no coincidence that the rules were rejigged just in time for privatisation. Another little mechanism to increase shareholder value at the expense of customer service.
WOW!
Just had a call from someone (they shall remain nameless for the time being) and they have offered me a brand new shock for my bike free of charge!
I was totally stunned when I was told this and felt a little bit squishy inside that someone could be so generous and compassionate.
If you're reading this...thank you so much!
I'll provide more details when things are finalised.
A crap day has turned into a great day 😀
Great news!
But doesn't get away from the crime Royal Mail have committed. Other won't always be able to stand in when RM steal items.
Was the nameless person the boss of Royal Mail?
Just be sure they don't post it to you...
Great result op ,
And very kind of whoever as offered this kindness.
I would make sure they are happy with being named or I could see a lot stwers suddenly being robbed by the Royal Mail.
Definition of dispose in English
dispose
Pronunciation: /d??sp??z/
Translate dispose | into French | into German | into Italian
verb
1 [no object] (dispose of) get rid of by throwing away or giving or selling to someone else:
the waste is disposed of in the North Sea
people now have substantial assets to dispose of after their death
informal kill:
she came up with schemes for disposing of her husband
overcome (a rival or threat):
the Scottish champions were buoyant after they disposed of English champions Leeds
informal consume (food or drink) quickly or enthusiastically:
she watched him dispose of a large slice of cheese
2incline (someone) towards a particular activity or mood:
prolactin, a calming hormone, is released, disposing you towards sleep
[with object and infinitive]:
if you touch the female readers' hearts, it might dispose their husbands to be charitable
3 [with object and adverbial] arrange in a particular position:
the chief disposed his attendants in a circle
[no object] literary determine the course of events:
the government proposed, but the trade union movement disposed
[from the proverb ‘Man proposes, (but) God disposes’, translating Latin Homo proponit, sed Deus disponit (Thomas à Kempis's De Imitatione Christi i. xix)]
Derivatives
Disposed of sure covers a lot despite in my mind meaning to throw away.
No problem OP. Least I could do for a cycling brother 😀
WOW!Just had a call from someone (they shall remain nameless for the time being) and they have offered me a brand new shock for my bike free of charge!
I was totally stunned when I was told this and felt a little bit squishy inside that someone could be so generous and compassionate.
If you're reading this...thank you so much!
I'll provide more details when things are finalised.
A crap day has turned into a great day
Cane creek DB then?
Ahhh.. (parking any conspiracy theorist in me) that's an ace thing someone's done.
Season of giving is alive 'n' well 😀
Many years ago i worked for Parcelforce in the big Royal Mail building just off Tottenham Court Road, I used to have contract commercial customers and would negotiate yearly rates for the services needed by them in dealing with posting their items.
It got to a point where so much stuff was being stolen, we had to ask some companies to stop putting their company name or any references to what the goods where on the outside pack, especially it seemed to be mobile phones, DVD's and viagra. The East London depot was that bad that apparently a van word reverse up to load the stuff onto and phones, DVD's etc were available in many of the local pubs.
Was this offer of a new shock from a generous benefactor or from someone at royal mail?
Great result. If from RM, it would suggest they aren't exactly too confident in their actions which obviously speaks volumes. If from a third party then that third party has my respect, make no mistake.
I'm guessing it's from a manufacture as a sort of opportune marketing exercise
(which is totally fine, some of these things are awesome (like in this case))
So I've been riding with something in-between my legs that can explode?! Going to start wearing a cup when I go out riding.
Great news OP.
Just got a seatpost through the post (no pun intended).
There was a penny sized green sticker with a tick on the packaging; does this mean they checked it in a X ray machine and then decided to let it carry on to it's destination with me?
I am glad things are looking up; hope it sorts out well for you.
Just to prevent any headaches, it definitely isn't a Police matter this isn't a fraud/ theft. If you need to I would pursue them through the small claims court or at least threaten to do so, they would probably settle as it's easier than defending. My local Police 'file' without any investigation whatsoever 80% of reported fraud. This isn't fraud/ theft so you can guess their response/ interest (Note - all Police forces are different but all are skint).
The generous offer is not from RM, it's from a bike industry type. I'll post up the details if they are happy for me to do so once the details are finalised.
Although I won't be out a shock, I feel obliged to press the complaints home to RM in the hope that others don't experience what I have. If by some miracle I get my original shock back, I'll return the free one.
Glad to hear you're still going to keep the pressure on RM.
Orangejohn, can you please clarify why it's not theft? Perhaps it's just how I read your post, but it came across as its not theft because the police are too busy and/or underfunded.
PG - good for you. I hoped you'd keep up the pressure on RM, they deserve it.
Great news OP and "Top work that man" to the mysterious benefactor.
I think you still need to pursue it through RM, as you have stated, they shouldn't get off the hook because of a generous persons actions. They still F'ed up royally ( 😉 ) and shouldn't be allowed to wriggle away.
Thats great news for the OP, but as said this whole policy needs some common sense knocking into it.
the whole range of items that this affects is crazy, - "anything that will have been filled with compressed air" - as well as reverb seat posts etc, it must also cover bubble wrap!
main thing for now is that you can get out on yer bike! and sort RM out in due course.
Make sure your new shock isn't posted via RM....
Great News Paul regarding the shock - Very good for a company or person to offer this. -
I think your experience with RM should be the "test case" against Royal Mail with the so called "banned" goods.
Lay low for the moment awaiting RM reply and see what else they have to say.
I have recently had a couple of items I posted go missing. It hasn't happened to me before so maybe I've just been lucky.
I would quite happily send an email to the chief exec on you behalf, attaching a link to this thread and explaining that RM will no longer be getting any of my (albeit modest) custom until I hear that this has been resolved. If everyone who reads this thread does the same then we can become an almighty pain in the ass on your behalf....
I have recently had a couple of items I posted go missing. It hasn't happened to me before so maybe I've just been lucky.I would quite happily send an email to the chief exec on you behalf, attaching a link to this thread and explaining that RM will no longer be getting any of my (albeit modest) custom until I hear that this has been resolved. If everyone who reads this thread does the same then we can become an almighty pain in the ass on your behalf....
RM do seem to be totally disinterested in the huge amount of theft in their network. Why don't they launch a proper investigation, sack some people and press charges? Create a bit of fear of what can happen if caught stealing.
Is that Loco offering up a new shock.. ive seen him very generously help out a few people on here
Yonks ago I made a complaint to RM. I gained the impression they weren't interested, and the offer of stamps was an insult. I feel nothing has changed: they just keep losing credibility and will run out of customers.
Great news that you have a new shock...even if it a company they fully deserve the recognition
Still staggered by this whole thread however, especially given they sell the stuff on. If its considered 'dangerous' then dispose of it safely, don't just sell it on to the general public. Thats theft, plain and simple.
I know everyone hates the daily mail, but has anyone sent them a link to this, because I guarantee they'd be up in arms....
Anyhow, how are we now posting our bike bits? I have brakes to get out tomorrow to one of the STW members, I've only ever used RM before...
and finally - 9 pages and not one dissenting voice....a STW record?
and finally - 9 pages and not one dissenting voice....a STW record?
I think so, it must be xmas 😆
I can picture the daily mail headline now....
[b][u]A ROYAL CHRISTMAS SHOCK !!!!
]PRESSURE TRIGGERS ROYAL INTO SHOCK [/b][/u]
I agree with much of the overall sentiment of this thread.
I will watch with interest what happens to Paul's complaint, and would happily get stuck into a social media campaign.
If there is no joy from RM, then I personally would be in court ASAP.
Good on 'secret santa' shock supplier.
One last thought for any bike shop / online sales people on here such as CRC or on_one etc - are they worried about random orders being stolen and sold on?
Got my shock back from Loco today, sent by RM special delivery. So how is the OP's shock more dangerous than mine? Great result in the end though.
A word of warning for people about to jump to other couriers, be very aware of what their standard liability covers. I know with UPS it £60 plus you carriage costs because we recently had £1200 of flue testing equipment go missing in transit. We got a cheque for £63.85 and had to replace the goods. TNT standard is about something like £50 per kilo up to a max limit but their enhanced covers everything up to £10k and costs about £10 extra.
That is good news Paul - glad you're intending to keep on at RM.
I've tweeted, FB'd & emailed the. DM - can't say I'm pleased but if they get on RM's case then something may actually happen.
mojo are doing a £10 pick up and return deal at the moment.
edit:not such a good deal on rear shocks as it looks like they are £4.95 each way anyway. save a bit on forks though.
(would still use loco though) 🙂
surprised by a lot of what I've read on here, especially with the shock being discharged, would have thought if it could go on a commercial passenger airline it could go by RM.
Defiantly worth spreading the news about this even if RM are unwilling to change policy people need to be told, would never of considered anything with sending shocks. Thinking MTB mags and Facebook pages of uplift and other MTB companies would be happy to spread the word.
Also good to hear about the kindness of the person offering the shock.
When I just as this thread had made it to 9 pages, I naturally assumed it had descended into the usual STW bitchfight.
How wrong was I!
OP really hope you're able to let everyone know who's helping you out, sounds like they deserve some recognition.
Contender for thread of the year?
Flipping Heck....
I posted my VanRC to Loco and it arrived fine. I was asked what the contents were at the Post Office and I said "shock absorber" how the lady behind the counter would know whether it was pressurised or not is a moot point I guess. But they did deliver it; sounds like I was lucky.
I'm guessing Loco won't be using RM to return it...
Chris
Story up on the homepage now....
So, my VanRC arrived home; via Royal Mail today........maybe the spring didn't give away the fact it's got compressed nitrogen in it?
*relieved*
Chris
Royal Mail accepted the item when you went to the post office, so does this not suggest that they agreed your item was in accordance with theit T's and C's? If the item wasnt in accordance with their terms then surely they should not have accepted it?
Uness they can prove exactly what they have done with it then, as others have said I believe this may amount to theft. I think gettng the Police involved might be a good idea if you can not reach an amicable agreement first.
Dave - I can't comment on the story as I'm not premium anymore, but wouldn't it be better if it stated "Royal Mail" throughout, rather than "RM", for SEO reasons?
Technically theft or not, as I think others have stated my next move if Royal Mail don't cover themselves in glory would be small claims court. For the amount in question it would be more than worth heading down that route, IMO.
Just to give you all and update...
I was contacted yesterday by Mel at Mojo. They had been following my story on STW and couldn't believe what they were reading.
They offered to supply me an identical shock free of charge. I am completely taken aback by their generosity and would like to thank Mel and the rest of the team at Mojo for their excellent support.
Merry Christmas to all at Mojo!
...and to everyone on STW 🙂
That is exceptional work. Well played them.
Awesome. That's customer service above and beyond all of our expectations
Woo Hoo, Go Mojo.
Don't let Royal Mail off the hook though. Totally ambiguous T&C and "disposing" of anything that may contain gas ins't on.
I sent a package via Parcel Force at the start of the week. I've just dug out the receipt, and it says on the front 'Terms Accepted?: YES'
I was not given any terms and conditions, or asked to read anything, or asked If I agreed with their conditions at all.