[Closed] Royal mail have binned my rear shock!

Careful, Ninfan - don't blow it on a rebound purchase.

Can you post the email address of the CEO? I'd quite like to ask him a few questions...

Been done before... but:

[img] [/img]

Boris, it's on page two or three. It's a her.

Hi Paul, I don't often post on here, but read this story via Facebook. I really feel for you,, but you have handled this situation exceptionally well and with dignity. I doff my cap to you sir, well done, I hope it all gets sorted.
Well done to Mojo too, top work guys, what a nice offer to the OP.

not just bike bits, looks like they dispose of cameras as well -

[url= http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18531344&highlight=royalmail ]http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18531344&highlight=royalmail[/url]

To everyone sending good wishes, thank you very much, this situation has been made much easier due to the support on here. Still can't believe i've not had a total flaming...yet 😆

"STOP 'IM, 'EE's GETTIN' AWAY!"

[img] [/img]

</Photoshop_For_Beginners>

So I was lucky to send my Lezyne light and batteries to and from a shop for warranty

[img] [/img]

Clearly busy in the last hour at work.

Looking at that Wellers auction website, a lot of their auctions are for bulk disposal of what the RM would classify 'dangerous items'. If these are all being generated through RM thats a hell of a lot of confiscated stuff - there's 1'000's of items on a daily basis, and obviously enough to warrant seperate auctions for bike stuff, electronics, perfume etc.

I mean, that is actually staggering - enough confiscated bike parts for a seperate auction 😯

Will be interesting to see the catalogue on line closer to the auction date - hope nobody bids on the OP's shock!

Hopefully someone will shove it on Bikebiz and warn all retailers, wholesalers and consumers hit em in the pocket.... it the only way. Seems like a large scale scam which I assume generates a lot of cash.......get it on Jezza Vine!!! 😯

Discussion about Royal Mail stealing property started on Moneysavingexpert http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4850864

Overclockers thread contained a couple of useful bits:

James Eadie, Director of Product & Services PR
Royal Mail Group
07850757271
James.r.eadie@royalmail.com

Tim Cowen, Director of Consumer & Business Media Relations
Royal Mail Group,
07720412143
Tim.cowen@royalmail.com

Mobile numbers....!

They also seem deem perfume and aftershave as dangerous falls under flammable........ibidder has huge lots of stuff from RM, seems they get rid of an awful lot of peoples property!!!!

..this is just another example of how companies operate under the umbrella of complicated and implied T&C's.I'm not saying it is right but they will defend the case by stating that all their actions are highlighted in their T&C's.

Probably an equally worrying thought is who the hell buys perfume/ bike parts/ cameras not in their original manufacturers packaging in bulk and where does it go after the auction? Who is the resident Dom Littlewood on STW and are you up for the task? 😀

Go for the real Dom Littlewood.

dom@flametv.co.uk

Probably an equally worrying thought is who the hell buys perfume/ bike parts/ cameras not in their original manufacturers packaging in bulk and where does it go after the auction?

eBay.

(To be posted by Royal Mail obviously 🙄 )

Have we suggested sending this thread and a precis to Private Eye yet? - strobes@private-eye.co.uk

Twodogs - Member

Whether terms and conditions are legally enforceable isn't a police matter...That's for the courts to decide
Posted 1 day ago # Report-Post

In theory - however Getting It To Court means either starting a private case at risk OR getting the Police to take action - and even if they investigate, the Crown Prosecution Service could shut the whole thing down by deciding it was not something that they wanted to prosecute for a whole range of [url= http://www.cps.gov.uk/prosecution_policy_and_guidance.html ]reasons[/url]

DaveyBoyWonder - Member

I too wont be risking sending anything with RM again. Horrendous customer practice.

This.

Impressed by Mojo, will be giving them work in the future

And this.

[b]What are the alternatives to popping down to the post office and asking for them to (try to) send a parcel though?[/b]

Couriers a plenty.

Collect+ are mentioned already and seem reasonable, plus (ho ho) you can send stuff from your corner shop/petrol station etc.

I'm a fan of [url= http://www.interlinkdirect.co.uk/online_sales/initialise.action ]Interlink[/url] - have used them without issue plenty of times - just be careful which options you choose.

There are any number of alternatives if you live in a town/city - villages are a bit trickier but still possible if someone is at home.

I will happily join a Royal Mail boycott until they sort this mess of 'service' out. However it's dressed up and regardless of teh frontline Police response, it's highway robbery - and of the Royal Mail no less.

Do collect + deliver to the recipients door or do they have to collect from a similar shop/petrol station their end.

If someone were now kind enough to supply us all with old shock boxes we can all take a shit in them and send them by Royal Mail to Royal Mail.

Paul - pretty sure you'll get your shock back. Haven't read all 14 pages here in case there's updates in the middle saying the same.
I had the same problem and a week later the shock ended up at Mojo (who by the way were very aware of this as I spoke to them on numerous occasions) but it may be a different person you spoke to or they've just forgotten.

Anyway - here's how it goes:
Parcel is detected (new guidance issued late summertime to staff) and package is sent to Ireland which is the only place they deal with suspect packets now. It's checked there. I think this all happens surface mail too.
Once it's checked it's often just sent on to its original destination with a letter apologising for the delay and that there's nothing wrong with your package after all.
You have to unfortunately ignore the process crap that you go through and I know how bad it is - I thought for a week I'd lost a CCDB. No one in Cust services can tell you anything as they don't actually know anything. Only someone in Belfast can and you can't speak to them.
IMHO in a week or two it'll arrive at Mojo (mebbe later this time of year).

You got my number ? PM me or gimme a call if you want. I think you should have it from the Dudes weekend?

Cheers, Martin.

Can I try and summarise?

[b]The shock is a dangerous item which they can't transport.[/b]
However they're quite capable of transporting it to Surrey to sell it, clearly that's not actually true then.

[b]Ah, but it contravenes their stated T&Cs[/b]
Well actually that's not the case either. The T&Cs ( http://www.royalmail.com/sites/default/files/RM_General_TermsConditions_Oct13_1.pdf) refer you to www.royalmail.com/prohibitedgoods which redirects to http://www.royalmail.com/personal/help-and-support/Tell-me-about-Prohibited-Goods. The wording in that is:

Gases
Gases that are compressed, liquefied or dissolved under pressure, permanent gases which cannot be liquefied at ambient temperatures, liquefied gases which become liquid under pressure at ambient temperatures, dissolved gases which are dissolved under pressure in a solvent.
1. All flammable compressed gases are prohibited e.g. blowlamps; butane; lighters and refills containing flammable liquid or gas; ethane; gas cylinders for camping stoves; hydrogen; methane and propane.
2. All toxic compressed gases are prohibited e.g. chlorine; fluorine etc.
3. All non-flammable compressed gases are prohibited e.g. air bags; scuba tanks, carbon dioxide; fire extinguishers; neon and nitrogen.

No mention there of empty gas containers - that's the bit they're making up. The bloke from RM dangerous goods [url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/royal-mail-have-binned-my-rear-shock/page/2?replies=443#post-5607967 ]says[/url]:

Because the product is charged by filling with compressed air and whether it is full or not it is deemed a prohibited item under the above guidelines.

Except the T&Cs don't actually say that, so if they claim that you agreed to them, then that still doesn't justify their actions. IANAL, but I've spent time recently interacting with barristers (including being cross-examined by one) and I am sure that one would completely shoot down any claim that their T&Cs say empty containers are prohibited. It simply doesn't say that, and implying it isn't good enough - the exact wording is important. Any catch all involving the bit at the bottom about reserving the right to refuse any other item is quite clearly an unreasonable term, as how is the customer supposed to guess what non-dangerous items they will deem come under that?

Finally I note that in the reply form the RM dangerous goods team he quotes T&Cs section 4.9.6 where it says:

we may deal with such item in our sole and absolute discretion (without incurring any liability whatsoever to you or your intended recipient) including destroying or otherwise disposing of such item in whole or in part, or returning the relevant item to you.

...note the last phrase - I can't see any justification at all for them selling your goods rather than doing that.

http://www.****/news/article-462606/Royal-Mail-set-sell-lost-post-items-Ebay--pocket-profits.html

Totally agree aracer, the issue is getting Royal Mail to listen to us little folk. Hopefully if enough pressure is applied we can change their procedures and policies to ones that are more realistic and with a dose of common sense.

Martin, no chance of me getting the shock back. Sounds like you were very very lucky. I've been told by rm that my shock has already been sent to auction. I only posted it last Tuesday!

Fingers crossed but this may now be on a news desk at the Daily Wail.

Every now and again, the end does justify the means....

Nice one Mojo and, as has been said, well done Paul for staying so calm.

This morning i received 10 c02 cartridges i purchased off ebay - delivered via royal mail!

Ebayer linked pages ago, Sharon Kind, had loads of CO2 cartridges.

I used to work for a "High Street Retailer" and over my tenure will have sent 10's of thousands of pounds worth of alcohol, perfume and compressed gas by Recorded Mail.

I wasn't Op's Manager, not my problem but goodness me. Not a single reciprocation. Massive online distribution as well. Hardcore ****ups.

Wait a minute.

They can refuse to carry anything they like, fair enough. But they didn't refuse it, they accepted it at the counter. So there they have entered into the contract to deliver the package. By flogging it half way round the journey they are breaking that contract.

Are you a member of CTC or anything like that? Would on of their lawyers or the Cyclists Defence Fund be interested in being involved, I wonder. This debacle affects rather a lot of people and businesses and seems to be setting a precedence that we could do without.

[quote=PaulGillespie said]Totally agree aracer, the issue is getting Royal Mail to listen to us little folk. Hopefully if enough pressure is applied we can change their procedures and policies to ones that are more realistic and with a dose of common sense.

The main point of my post is that IMO (bearing in mind I'm not a lawyer, and this advice is worth exactly what you paid for it) you have a pretty good legal case on the basis of unreasonable terms and conditions. I have a funny feeling they may not want it to go to court, as whilst small claims doesn't actually set legal precedent, if they did lose there it would still open the floodgates.

First off glad u got a replacement, even if it was mojo that stumped up with it, instead of rm.

What I'm amazed at, is that they think this is legal.

Surely it is blatant theft, if they are then confiscating it and selling it on.

If it's unsafe to post then they should be contacting the sender to say they refuse to send the item any further and give them the option to collect the item.

This does sound more of a scam, which allows them to make extra revenue on the side.

I really hope u can take them to town on this.

I sure hope there are some riders out there who are lawyers or are good friends with one who would be able to help out.

they will start stealing christmas and birthday money next!

why do people actually let companies do stuff like this to us! We need more people who will stand up for them selfs, chain them to sorting office gates and mobs beating down post men.

The fact that some hazardous items (as defined by RM) are being delivered is a red herring. Some will slip the net, others may be from business customers.

In the latter case if they're shipping hazardous goods they should have someone competent to understand the regs and make the decision it's safe to ship. A private individual doesn't have that qualification and nor presumably do the counter staff, hence these 'odd' catch all categories of what is considered hazardous.

And I think it reasonable that once it is shipped if it is later caught and assessed as hazardous then no way should the RM be expected to onward ship just because they accepted it by some vaguely untrained counter staff member.

What is clearly unreasonable to me is what they subsequently define as hazardous - once intercepted then surely it's not unreasonable that someone in each locality has the skill to make an informed judgement of what is and isn't hazardous, and if it isn't then they can onward ship with a perfectly rational explanation of why it's delayed (as per example above). And if they won't onward ship because it's genuinely hazardous (but not dangerous) then it doesn't become 'theirs'.

With the system as it is, it seems to me they're advantaged by making the rules as they are, not providing the skills locally to fix this locally, and then profiting from the rules in a way that makes it beneficial to quarantine as much as possible, which while hidden behind contract terms is morally theft in my book. And with the rise of the semi-business eBay type customer - not big enough to be able to cover their own regulatory requirements but sending enough to be significant - this looks like a gravy train they've enjoyed for too long.

I've looked at the link for the Daily Mail article on this and what is quite interesting is that Strathclyde Police are holding the bagpipes until true ownership can be established. Interesting, as PG on here was told is wasn't a police matter.

Scottish law is different

The camera thread from over clockers is worse. In that case they disposed if the whole camera and lens because there were batteries in it. They could have simply removed the batteries and sent it on...

Thought the OP was in Edinburgh.

The overclockers thread though seems to be a troll posting it.

[quote=theotherjonv said]With the system as it is, it seems to me they're advantaged by making the rules as they are, not providing the skills locally to fix this locally, and then profiting from the rules in a way that makes it beneficial to quarantine as much as possible

This is the fundamental issue, isn't it? That it is in their interests not to provide the best service for the customer.

Though the other fundamental point is that they are managing to ship a lot of these hazardous items - though only to a destination which makes them money.

I've ordered a torch and batteries off eBay which is overdue. Wondering if its been snaffled.