[Closed] roadies - pedaling technique question

Probably just what comes naturally.

Ankling. You either do it naturally or you don't. Some websits advocates you do it purposefully. I wouldn't.

Always pointing downwards - or are you only noticing the "leading" foot on each rotation?

EDIT; Ankling - I should have known there is a name for it.

What's the reason for this

seat too high 😉

it is a personal thing., some people like a high forward saddle position (closer to a TT bike) some people go for the back and down

as above, its personal preference, i ride toes down because it just feels more comfortable for me.

My Right foot does this. Annoys the hell out of me and I consciously try and correct it.

I just do it naturally. I have to really focus on getting my heels down on the MTB.

druidh - no, both feet. I noticed philip pedaling like this on tuesday night, when i was watching his effortless technique.

I've seen some 'extreme' versions of it i.e toes almost in a 6 o'clock position, whilst others just have a bit of a tilt, and always wondered why - doesn't look comfortable.

are they not just flexing there feet at the end of the stroke?

It's just a continuation of the circular motion and makes lifting the pedal easier and more comfortable, for me.

Never thought about, just seems natural.
Seems odd having your heels down with your body weight forward.

I doubt it matters a jot, unless everyone who does it is faster than everyone who doesn't?

There does seem to be something in the ankling technique. I often deploy this when my legs are otherwise tiring and especially useful on short, sharp climbs.

I think you'll be hard pressed to find anyone riding road well with heels down.
[img] [/img]

I ride with my road bike saddle a few mm lower than I would on my mountain bikes so I can drop my heal and drag the pedal through the last part of the downstroke. My toes only point down as I pull up and over the top.

I'm told I have a very fluid pedaling style.

As was said, toes pointing down might indicate the saddle being too high or a lack of flexibility in the ankles.

Incidentally, Basso was experimenting with an adjustable seatpost at this year's tour which allowed him to lower the saddle by a couple of mm once he was warmed up.

If you look at most pros' positions, they ride with a slightly lower saddle to allow dropping of the heal - compare them to pros in the 80s and 90s who seemed to favour the higher saddle...

From the TTer to the sprinter.
[img] [/img]

Usually it's so you pedal in circles. Toes down to push the pedals back at the bottom of the stroke - Likened to wiping dog shite of the front of your shoe. 🙂

Going up...
[img] [/img]

I started using rollers a couple of years ago for some indoor training and found as my technique improved so did the amount of movement in my ankle. I think it helps the stroke become much smoother or something.

Could be BS, I've no idea, but I quite like the feel of it when I'm out on the road/MTB.

Diagram at different pedalling rpm:

[img] [/img]

60 - 90 rpm, 90-110 rpm and 110+ rpm.

Try it on a turbo trainer, set up a video camera from the side of do it next to a mirror. It's one of those concious things, you have to actually force yourself to do it for a while until it becomes second nature. Riding fixed is very good for teaching it cos if you don't do it right, you break your ankles! 😉

Incidentally, Basso was experimenting with an adjustable seatpost at this year's tour which allowed him to lower the saddle by a couple of mm once he was warmed up.

Don't know about this, but Merckx was doint that 40 years ago. Higher saddle for climbing then lower for the faster stuff.

Likened to wiping dog shite of the front of your shoe

Or a 100M sprinter, to me the concept of forward motion with the body weight far forward and heels down seems blindingly wrong. Upright/moving slowly or weight waaay back okay.

I read that Coppi rode with his toes pointing down, if it's good enough for him...

Coppi rode with a VERY low saddle position compared to most modern cyclists. I doubt his pedaling style is a good benchmark for the modern cyclist, he was a one-off and modern ergonomic knowledge wasn't available to him.
Imagine what he could have been knowing what we know now!

This is the advise I got with my new road bike:

[img] [/img]

(Edit - linked image now not showing - it is also [url= http://twitpic.com/64jvnr ]here[/url])

The only bit I'm not sure about it who is holding the left handlebar grip...

Is there [b][i][u]any[/b][/i][/u] evidence that this helps?

I can see it when one is tired - you are using "fresh" muscles as you do when out of the saddle etc.

As above, most riders will naturally point their feet to some extent on the return stroke. "Ankling" is an old-school technique which involves an exaggerated angling of the foot to supposedly improve performance, but I don't think there is evidence to support this, and it is largely discounted these days.

I believe that modern biomechanical studies have demonstrated that the concept of actually pulling up on the return stroke under normal pedalling conditions is a bit of a myth. The return phase always impedes the downstroke of the other leg, and all you can do on is unweight the pedal as much as possible to reduce this effect. Low rev climbing on a steep hill is obviously different.

As Al is suggesting, I don't think there is much evidence to show that there is any specific ideal pedalling technique. Basically push as hard as you can on the downstroke and use whatever technique you are comfortable with.

As espoused by the coaches when I was a lad, ankling involved dropping the heel at the top of the stroke, to help push the pedal forward, then dropping the toe at the bottom of the stroke to pull the pedal backwards.
The mechanics of it are discussed at [url= http://www.perfectcondition.ltd.uk/Articles/Pedalling/index.htm ]http://www.perfectcondition.ltd.uk/Articles/Pedalling/index.htm[/url]
Riding fixed was encouraged as a way of developing proper ankling technique instead of 'pedalling square'.

As Al suggests, ankling seems to work for me for short intervals or when other muscles are tired.

Muscles are more efficient in the middle of their range. Pedalling with feet pointing downwards may help some people use their muscles in middle range. Nothing more complex than simple biomechanics.

I'm sure Gilbert was doing something similar at the end of some of this years Classics to save his calf's for the final sprint, seemed to work for him.

Incidentally, Basso was experimenting with an adjustable seatpost at this year's tour which allowed him to lower the saddle by a couple of mm once he was warmed up

It's the other way round. He ran his saddle lower before he was warmed up. And also sometimes when climbing.

Sheldon on ankling:

http://sheldonbrown.com/gloss_an-z.html#ankling

he wasn't keen.

I remember reading somewhere an article saying it's more efficient when using flat pedals too.

Can anyone point to a good road rider that rides heels down?

To me it seem the most stupid thing on earth, the sheer idea of adjusting a bike to enable you to ride heels down seems crazy. Perhaps something left to carry on in the MTB world

It works on a road bike as a means of putting in a short burst while staying seated. You can ride as you were, but add in a short burst of extra power from your calves. Useful if you want to push on whilst maintaining an air of nonchalance.

oldgit - Member

Can anyone point to a good road rider that rides heels down?

Here's a photo I took on Sunday of National Crit Champion Graham Briggs demonstrating beautifully how to use a dropped heal to drag the pedal through the latter part of the down-stroke. He's quite a good rider.

[IMG] [/IMG]

At the velodrome if you do a lot of riding around with your toes pointing down (as I do), then the trainers tend to pull you up on it and claim your seat is too high. They say heels should be down to improve power.

Don't know about that myself but I generally suggest politely that they come back to me when I'm one of the slower riders there rather than one of the quicker ones.

LOL shame there's no tension in the chain 😛

Shibboleth, odd that you should pick Mr Briggs. You can probably tell I'm not at all convinced, but one thing I've always noticed with short riders is that they seem almost neutral, like Cunego.
Samuri, trackies are similar not sure if that has anything to do with geometry. It might be worth looking at riders in the banned 'superman' position.

That photo might be a little misleading as he's nailing it round a corner and probably adjusting body and foot position so as not to fall off?

Nope I'm sticking by my guns.
If there was anything in this I'm certain that the likes of Armstrong would have adopted it.
Also a quick Google of the 'Superman' does indeed show all toes down.
The only time it's heels down is cornering a la Briggsy, or dying on an Alp with your butt hanging off the saddle.
With the worlds fastest testers, sprinters, climbers and the old world hour record holders in the Superman all toes down I'm going to be hard pushed to be convinced by a mountainbike forum.

cynic-al - Member

LOL shame there's no tension in the chain

There goes Al demonstrating his complete lack of knowledge about all things cycling. What happens, Al, basically, is that the 'cyclist' turns the 'pedals' clockwise, which pulls a 'chain' round the top of the 'chainring' which in turn pulls the 'sprocket' resulting in forward propulsion. The chain is only under tension at the top. 🙄

oldgit - Member
If there was anything in this I'm certain that the likes of Armstrong would have adopted it.

You're absolutely right Old Git. Lance would never dream of dropping his heals...

[img] [/img]

I agree with you about the superman technique though, definitely heals up...

😉

[IMG] [/IMG]

I wouldnt take any advice from this forum for road riding 😀