+1 for Donk, MSP & JY
+1
no i think that's a different accent. the guy in the video has an Irish accent wheras the guy you're thinking off had a very nasal southern accent...i think...
Ah, yes, you're right I think, it was a London lad I'm thinking of.
He is not bawling is he?
No, he's the picture of serenity and the poster boy of calm.
so in that situation you would have opened your door to stop them
Had I been the car driver i would have just returned to my side of the road looking sheepish whilst apologising.
Even whilst someone is stood there yelling at you? In that situation I've have said "I made a mistake, sorry, but what's your bloody problem?"
It's a slightly forced comparison as I'd never be in that situation unless I'd had a stroke or something, I'm not in the habit of deliberately driving badly. But if I'd wound up being faced down by someone telling me to move my effing car then I doubt I'd have been in a hurry to comply with his orders.
TBH I am bit confused by your post you blame him then accept she is completely wrong.
I believe I explained that in my last paragraph, I thought it was quite simple. She was in the wrong, but if he'd kept calm and waited for her to shift rather than shouting at her then the argument would probably have been avoided.
getting all sweary and wavy-army isn't helping anyone
His "getting all sweary" isn't loud, it is just at conversation level, and couldn't be heard from inside a car, and his arm waving is just a shrug and directing her to where she should be on the road.
You are just making excuses for crap driving, and trying to blame the victim.
Even whilst someone is stood there yelling at you? In that situation I've have said "I made a mistake, sorry, but what's your bloody problem?"
Well the problem would be that you are still on the wrong side of the road, and blocking it for all traffic. A cyclist is normal traffic and she should treated as such, ie she should return to the correct side of the road.
ps I suggest you watch it again, he isn't yelling at any point.
not everything is black and white you know
Racist
Getting pissed off and swearing to your self is hardly an over reaction.
Given what she does I have no idea why folk keep focusing on HIS over reaction rather than hers which is near certifiable
Perhaps he should have just tutted and stared at her but even then some folk would be calling that confrontational
No, he's the picture of serenity and the poster boy of calm.
Amusing straw man/answer but I never claimed he is that either so, again, is he bawling ?as noted its conversational levels to himself.
Even whilst someone is stood there yelling at you?
I think you need to watch the video again
He says I have you on camera and reads her reg - he is not yelling either.
In that situation I've have said "I made a mistake, sorry, but what's your bloody problem?"
I would have thought his problem was obvious if not from you having road sense a basic knowledge of the highway code, a realisation of what side of the road we drive or ultimately from his ranting swearing 😉
But if I'd wound up being faced down by someone telling me to move my effing car then I doubt I'd have been in a hurry to comply with his orders.
ended up it is a car on the wrong side of the road going towards a vulnerable road user and it has been deliberately placed there - it is not unintentional. If you wish to stay on the wrong side of the road and not move then fair enough ,...thank god you dont get confrontational or ranty eh
I believe I explained that in my last paragraph, I thought it was quite simple. She was in the wrong, but if he'd kept calm and waited for her to shift rather than shouting at her then the argument would probably have been avoided.
well she had many metres to shift whilst approaching and still had room where she stopped.
If you think she would have moved and been calm then fair enough but i see little to any evidence to suggest this would have happened mainly because she did not and her reaction suggest calm and reasonable are not her forte - they may not be his either but he is some way from ranting or going mental
Anyway. In terms of road rage, the cyclist completely overreacted first of all.
seems a little at odds cougar, guy knows he is being bullied but waving his arms and swearing (which I'd wager the driver didn't hear) is a complete overeaction?It's bullying, pure and simple. I don't blame him for standing his ground, I would have done so as well. I haven't put up with bullies since my school days and I'm damned if I'm going to start doing so a couple of decades later.
As i said earlier if he had remained calm and considered no one would have been able to fault his behaviour [b]at all[/b] but the woman would probably have done her rant and then driven off without letting him get a calm and considered word in edgeways, so he'd have been bullied, shouted at and then summarily dismissed, hardly likely to improve his mood eh?
[quote=Cougar ]She was in the wrong, but if he'd kept calm and waited for her to shift rather than shouting at her then the argument would probably have been avoided.
I get the impression if he'd waited for her to shift it would have gone dark first. Well that or the car drivers behind her would have dragged her from the car and beaten her to a pulp. So he did her a favour really.
You are just making excuses for crap driving, and trying to blame the victim.
I'm really not at all - it's weird how you can't say anything even vaguely critical of a cyclist without some people jumping down your throat.
I said the woman was an idiot but apparently I'm blaming the victim. 😕
She was in the wrong, but if he'd kept calm and waited for her to shift rather than shouting at her then the argument would probably have been avoided.
+1
I'm sorry, but no way was he overreacting. The 4x4 was deliberately trying to bully him off the road.
Its not like he lobbed his bike through her windscreen, he mumbled a few swear words out of earshot.
to me she strikes me as the type of driver who would sit in a yellow box junction and then stare ahead obliviously and if anyone pointed out she was in the wrong she would go mental and blame everyone else.
is this thread still running?
How on earth can you think she would have acted reasonably but for him?
What part of her behaviour from start to finish makes you think she was about to be reasonable? Really WHAT PART?
There is just no evidence whatsoever to suggest the only think that stopped her being reasonable was his "lack of calm".
FFS how much more unreasonable do you want her to be?
She blocked the road deliberately and was on the wrong side of the road
She had space to move to legally where she should have been even once stopped and doe snot
She opens her door on him as he tries to pass to complain about his position in the road thereby creating the confrontation rather than the stand off - note she was in the wrong but he still moved out of her way yet still he is over reacting eh
She ends up screaming about assault
You really think the only thing that stopped her being reasonable was his reaction of swearing at conversational level and gesticulating about road position
Shakes head in disbelief.
maybe he should have carried on, clipped her car and fallen off and then let the police deal with her driving down the wrong side of the road whilst failing to give way to oncoming traffic due to an obstruction on her side of the road...
it's weird how you can't say anything even vaguely critical of a cyclist without some people jumping down your throat.
Well if you actually described what happened, instead of exaggerating the cyclists actions that may have been true, but as that isn't what you actually did, my criticism stands. You even completely exaggerated my reaction, jumping down your throat, really?
Again the argument you are putting forward is a complete contradiction. You would ignore a car driver on the wrong side of the road bullying you off the road as trivial, but would react to a shrug and being gestured onto the correct side of the road with some lip movements you couldn't hear.
[quote=Junkyard ]Shakes head in disbelief.
Very restrained of you. I'm sitting here swearing and gesticulating at the other people on this thread.
grum - do you really think she would have actually shifted if he'd waited? My last post might seem humorous, but I'm serious - I reckon she would have just sat there until forced to do something.
How on earth can you think she would have acted reasonably but for him?
Um.... who/what are you responding to here?
is this thread still running?
Once a thread starts to be hit big, it reaches a sort of terminal velocity. I believe the extra weight of multiple copy and paste replies can actually accelerate the exponential growth rate of a thread.
this is getting interesting as far as debates/arguments go....
i've got the biscuits...who's turn is it to make the brews? 😛
Well if you actually described what happened, instead of exaggerating the cyclists actions that may have been true, but as that isn't what you actually did, my criticism stands. You even completely exaggerated my reaction, jumping down your throat, really?
Yes, accusing me of blaming the victim is a ridiculous overreaction. How is saying he got sweary and arm-wavy exaggerating? Which bit of that is factually incorrect?
Honestly, it's no wonder there's such an us/them situation on the roads when some people are so hysterical.
grum - do you really think she would have actually shifted if he'd waited? My last post might seem humorous, but I'm serious - I reckon she would have just sat there until forced to do something.
I dunno - that's what I would have imagined would happen before she revealed herself to be utterly mental once the car door opened. 🙂
I think we all need to calm down, group ride in 20mins? meet you in reception?
[quote=grum ]I dunno - that's what I would have imagined would happen before she revealed herself to be utterly mental once the car door opened.
Exactly - those suggesting he'd have got a better reaction if he'd behaved differently (was that you? 😉 ) don't seem to be taking that into account. To be honest you just needed to see how she drove though - moving closer to the kerb on the wrong side of the road when she sees the cyclist coming isn't exactly normal reasonable behaviour.
ho/what are you responding to here?
your last post where you sad this
She was in the wrong, but if he'd kept calm and waited for her to shift rather than shouting at her then the argument would probably have been avoided.
+1
I see no evidence to suggest she wished to avoid a confrontation - what do you see that suggest she wanted to avoid it ?
it's no wonder there's such an us/them situation on the roads when some people are so hysterical.
Lol she reacts like that and someone else is hysterical
There is no us and them, sometimes road users drive badly no matte rhow many wheels they have
It seems more to me that nio matter what happens there is always a number of people willing to defend the driver no matter what they do and this seems a classic case of this at worst he mumbles some swearing she wont hear and gets out the way and some still want to blame him
IME they dont ride bikes very often and rarely commute 😛
Lol she reacts like that and someone else is hysterical
Except I already said she was an idiot, and that she was in the wrong. 😕
And yes, people on here are being hysterical.
there is always a number of people willing to defend the driver no matter what they do and this seems a classic case of this
Can you point to where I've defended the driver (perhaps where I called her an idiot)? No, didn't think so.
IME they dont ride bikes very often and rarely commute
I used to commute by bike nearly every day. Haven't you got any neighbours to go and get in another shouting match with? 😉
Exactly - those suggesting he'd have got a better reaction if he'd behaved differently (was that you? ) don't seem to be taking that into account.
I dunno, I've done daft things in a car before then realised my mistake and apologised/moved - I don't think it would have been unreasonable to anticipate that might have happened there (until she revealed herself to be a crazy woman).
yawn
Though as JY points out, you did write:
if he'd kept calm and waited for her to shift rather than shouting at her then the argument would probably have been avoided.
Do you now acknowledge that is incorrect in light of her subsequent behaviour?
Keeping you up asterix and craig? There are other threads you can read if you don't like this one...
+1yawn
D0NK - Member
I think we all need to calm down, group ride in 20mins? meet you in reception?
I've just put the kettle on, though.
Shall we head out after a nice cuppa?
Do you now acknowledge that is incorrect in light of her subsequent behaviour?
It's hard to say isn't it - unless you/he can read minds/predict alternative realities.
Having nearly been killed (literally) by a road rage driver in Spain I just think generally the best policy is to try and defuse any given situation as much as possible. I realise that makes me a traitor to cycling.
It was actually Cougar that wrote it, and +1ed it BTW.
damn just remembered I'm not on the bike today someone drove over it, altho to be fair it was probably all my fault.
sorry couldn't resist 🙂
[quote=grum ]It was actually Cougar that wrote it, and +1ed it BTW.
Counts the same!
not at all, it's certainly an example of good control of your emotions. I tend to do the same in other situations, like i said I don't like confrontation, thing is when someone is playing fast and loose with your safety or treating you like a second class [s]citizen[/s] road user I don't think it's unreasonable if you then get a bit touchy about it. I have difficulty staying properly calm in those situations, I don't lose the plot or anything but I definitely get a bit defensive.I realise that makes me a traitor to cycling.
hi aracer - just don't think this is really making much further progress - the discussion seemed OK for the frist few days
I agreed with JY earlier
not at all, it's certainly an example of good control of your emotions. I tend to do the same in other situations, like i said I don't like confrontation, thing is when someone is playing fast and loose with your safety or treating you like a second class citizen road user I don't think it's unreasonable if you then get a bit touchy about it. I have difficulty staying properly calm in those situations, I don't lose the plot or anything but I definitely get a bit defensive.
Yeah I agree with all that - not saying it's easy and I don't blame the guy for reacting the way he did.
Am I still allowed to say that he probably could have handled it better though, or will JY shout at me again?
lol grum - are you a grum all on your own?
Eh?
[quote=grum ]Am I still allowed to say that he probably could have handled it better though, or will JY shout at me again?
You are (though I can't vouch for JY) - the question is whether it would have improved the outcome in any way.
to be honest i think most of us on STW would if driving try a similar manoeuvre, but as common sense dictates if there is oncoming traffic then we would pull back in and let the traffic pass and only continue when its safe to do so. we would be even more understanding if we were in that exact situation involving a cyclist as we, as riders, can see it from the cyclists point of view.
the trouble with the woman in the jeep is her sheer arrogance and ignorance to the basic rules of driving that leads to the cyclists contempt towards her.
i noticed earlier in the thread someone trying to blame the rider suggesting he was one of those helmet cam warriors who goes looking for trouble and the fact that he deliberately swerved away from another car soon after he had turned onto the street demonstrates that fact.
i think this is wrong as he took a line most cyclists would take when turning onto a street and that took him close to the centre on the road...the car in question (silver almera) had itself gone around a parked vehicle but was not able to tuck itself back into its lane fully leaving the rear of the car sticking out. the rider swerving was him simply avoiding the car to prevent an accident (if he was a helmet cam warrior he would have had a go at that driver too).
as soon as he turned onto the street he would have been visible to the woman as she was already on the other side far in advance of the parked car and directly in her line of sight. she continued as he did but he had passed the parked car before her. in normal circumstances as she had at least 3 car lengths between her and the parked car she had plenty of time and space to move back in and let him pass. it would be completely wrong of him to continue on his line of trajectory without hitting her car, illegal to mount the pavement and totally wrong for him to swerve to the opposite side of the road where he would be riding into oncoming traffic.
the woman is in the wrong in so many ways and ignorant to this. she is also ignorant to the fact that a cyclist has the same legal right to use a road as a motorist. if it was a car coming at her i'm sure she would have been more likely to move over.
as for his reaction...he swore to himself, something most of us have done at some point while riding on roads...waving his arms about were his way of telling the woman where she should have been. he was assertive without being overly aggressive when he was next to the car but his behaviour was not unreasonable. some have said that they would have carried on and ignored the incident but we dont know what kind of day or journey the rider had leading up to that - he could have been stressed out at work/home, could have already had a few near misses and this was the final straw...many cyclists wear helmet cams nowadays to protect themselves as in the case of Jimbos friend who got hit by a car.
i cant find any reason to blame the cyclist but maybe he could have handled it better but maybe his reaction was perfectly justified...who knows?
but that woman was clearly in the wrong and ignorant to that fact.
depends whether you sayAm I still allowed to say that he probably could have handled it better though, or will JY shout at me again?
orhe was in the right but maybe could have handled it better
the former you're probably OK with, one of the latter...well I'm sure you can guess, give him a rivita tho and he'll be too busy trying to consume the cardboardesque snack to argue 😉No wonder cyclists have a bad name, what a c"ck
He was technically correct but went about it like a prize tool.
He's a bell end.
people on here are being hysterical.
Are they? I will have to assume it is the folk who disagree with you as clearly you would not be saying things for a reaction and are being the measure of calm
can you point to where i said you did it , no thought not 🙄Can you point to where I've defended the driver (perhaps where I called her an idiot)? No, didn't think so.
Can you deny it has happened on this thread - thought not
Haven't you got any neighbours to go and get in another shouting match with?
No one has blocked me in and tried to assault me today but thanks for your concern 🙄
Am I still allowed to say that he probably could have handled it better though, or will JY shout at me again?
You can say anything you wish even accuse me of shouting if you like.
You could of course just debate the issue without all this whilst, ironically, suggesting the cyclist "could of handled it better". Yes he could, but his reaction did not cause anything, just as you could make your points without all this.
Not sure why you are doing this but please refrain.
can you point to where i said you did it , no thought not
My mistake, I thought your comments were directed at me, seeing as you'd quoted me just above.
You can say anything you wish even accuse me of shouting if you like.
Is this not shouting then? I thought that was the commonly accepted use of capitals on internet forums etc.
What part of her behaviour from start to finish makes you think she was about to be reasonable? Really WHAT PART?
You could of course just debate the issue without all this
Without all this what? If you're claiming I'm being unreasonably antagonistic I think that's a little 'pot kettle black' TBH.
Are they?
Yeah, I think you and MSP are being a bit hysterical. Notice how DONK can make basically the same argument without attacking people and over-reacting.
Grum & Junkyard...guys chill out...it's Friday!! 😀
the cyclist "could of handled it better". Yes he could, but his reaction did not cause anything,
You've no idea what he did or didn't cause.
From my view from the camera, it looks to me like she deliberately blocked off the road. But we don't know that for sure, she could've been away with the fairies and not seen him, then got a fright when he "suddenly" appeared. It's not clear but watching it again it looks like he's far enough away when she starts to move out that it's reasonable to think she hasn't seen him at that point.
She might well have been a cyclist-hating harpy fully intending to confront him regardless of his actions. Or she might have misunderstood his arm-waving and orders to "move the f over" followed by him moving right up close to her driver's door as acts of aggression. Plus, it looks like he moves out to primary as he's passing the last parked car, which again she might have misinterpreted the intentions of.
For selective readers like JY I'll just reiterate, I'm not defending her actions in any way. She is 100% in the wrong place and should have let him past. But, I stand by the fact that he could have handled the situation better. He could.
If he'd sat and waited quietly for her to yield, I'd expect that she'd have run out of patience waiting before he did and moved out of the way, especially given that there was plenty of room to do so without needing to reverse, and given that traffic was building up behind her. She might not have of course, I'm only guessing, but it seems to me that that would be a course of action less likely to inflame the situation.
That's all I'm saying. I'm not blaming the victim, and I'm not suggesting he should've given in to the bully. But a simple, silent gesture to move over might well have diffused the situation more easily than looking / sounding angry at someone and then riding up to them.
Or it might not. Who knows.
For selective readers like JY I'll just reiterate, I'm not defending her actions in any way
Can you highlight the part where i claimed you were? What I have suggested it is that it is odd to suggest that calm serenity and reasonableness would have emanated from her had he not sworn to at conversational level and gesticulated as to where she should be. You have seen how she acts in the video?
You've no idea what he did or didn't cause.......If he'd sat and waited quietly for her to yield, I'd expect that she'd have run out of patience waiting before he did and moved out of the way,
Right so we dont know what he caused but we can surmise what she would do based on the fact she had opportunity to do all this and did not.
IMHO it seems somewhat fanciful to think she would have suddenly become reasonable after enough staring - would this not have been confrontational? It is true we cannot be certain what would happen however I see nothing in that video to suggest that driver was about to break into reasonable behaviour at any point and i fail to see what you see that makes you think she would have had he acted differently.
TBH it really does look like she is not capable of acting reasonably, rationally nor in accord with the highway code from that video and she is barking by the end
Or it might not. Who knows
For the reasons stated above i find it strange to think that if he had acted differently she would have but yes it might have but its quite unlikely
Step away from the keyboard.
Please?
If he'd sat and waited quietly for her to yield, I'd expect that she'd have run out of patience waiting before he did and moved out of the way,
I'm not so sure that is the case. People can be very stubborn. A couple of days ago I was cycling home up my street which is too narrow for two cars to pass due to parking. A car was behind me and another was approaching. I got through ok but I could hear the two cars stopping in the middle of the road and the sound of revving engines. I got home, had a slice of toast and some orange juice, and then went out again. The two cars were [i]still[/i] there, eyeball to eyeball and this must've been 10 minutes later. Don't underestimate some people's stupidity in these sort of cases, especially if there is a bike inviolved.