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That is a huge difference in sweep, plus of course the Loops are relatively flat/parallel to the ground.
"With the Jones Loops (or the Titec copies, which I have), the wide-backswept-bits feel pretty much the same as being in the drops of a super-flared drop bar like the Midge, while the forward looped bit feels like being on the hoods of a set of road bars set at the right height "
I havent used these bars but agree with what your saying.
Personally I would not want the bars set up so the drops are high enough for offroad riding. As I want to be in the drops to lower my position (more aero) for road sections.
What Gravel/Adventure bikes need is a bar/shifter combo which has a high wide position for offroad and a low narrow position for onroad.
The problem with your bar is as you say you cant used the shifters / brakes in the road position.
It would almost be better if the bars were a bit wider at the hoods (say 500mm) for offroad, and the drops flared inwards for road sections. But I dont think current shifters could be set up for this type of bar.
"What Gravel/Adventure bikes need is a bar/shifter combo which has a high wide position for offroad and a low narrow position for onroad."
Ah, you've articulated what I was thinking far better than I could manage!
Yes, that's exactly what I feel is the problem with off-road drops. The wide section is low, when it needs to be high.
So yes Scotroutes, I'm aware the Loops are flat/parallel when viewed side-on, and IMO that's exactly what makes them better for mixed riding than flared drops. You're right that there is a big difference in sweep as well, so I guess what I mean is that the sweep of Jones loops makes them feel far closer to a flared drop than a conventional MTB flat bar, even though they are still different
went from riding mtb with slicks to building up a cx stylee with drops because was fed up with sat up riding into wind on road sections and wanted something to ride green lanes/bridleways connect to roads - moved on from an actual cx (^^pro6) bike to a gravel bike with wider tyres than cx rules allow and loving it as less beaten up and anything that looks interesting is fair game
last month best option for a credit card tour was a flat bar road bike - guess which days I hated - headwinds - on my gravel bike I'd have felt it but not had to suffer it quite so much - with drops early bath and beer would have been on cards
loving the choice
PS cowchippers for me
guy does pretty well on the very pricey vielo (great vid though)
I have a spesh diverge for commuting/blatting about the hills. scary if too rough but fun fun
That video with Guy appears to be more or less the kind of riding I do currently on my Bokeh. And broadly reperesntative of what I've been doing since the mid 90s on my CX bike (1996 custom steel islabike with clearance for 40mm+ tyres).
What has happened more recently is that with 650b tyres becoming available in greater numbers and types it allows those kinds of bikes to become more and more versatile, also flared drop bars are easier to find and road disc means that there's a lot less canti faffing.
These bars do actually sweep inwards
https://www.bikeradar.com/road/news/article/these-new-bars-claim-to-make-any-road-bike-faster-50842/
Although for Gravel I'd prefer to see wider maybe 44cm to 50cm at the hoods. Down to ~42cm at the drops.
"I have Jones Loops on 2 bikes and flared drops (Woodchippers) on another. They are in no way similar."
Exactly. I ride Midge bars alot on my cx bike (which is actually a cx bike just setup more like a gravel bike) and tried loops on my mtb. The backswept part is not at the same angle, didn't really feel like a nice tucked hook position on a drop and the forward part of the loop is nowhere near as comfy as a nicely shaped hood. I did not feel like I had more control than riding with midge bars, somehow the loops felt like a was racing a wheel barrow.
They did however look slightly less weird than the set of midges I bodged on the mtb to replace them thereby making it a monstercross I suppose.
I might try another set one day almost because I just want to like them.
Rigid bikes I find drops comfier
10 years ago I got a cx bike for winter road fitness, the only reason I got a CX bike is that I thought roadies were not cool. In the year I had it I used it offroad about 3 times, although once was the HONC which was great fun. I hated the canti brakes and soon swapped in for a road bike.
A few years after that I got a Croix De Fer, I sold it after 3 rides, horrible heavy lump.
Despite a couple of indifferent/bad experiences I still hankered for a CX bike and with a young family, the appeal of getting off busy roads and not having to drive to decent singletrack was strong so I got a Pro6 last month. A few rides in and I'm really enjoying the freedom of popping out for a quick ride around the local droves. At the weekend I rode it 18 miles on the road to Thetford then around the trails. I wasn't setting any Strava PBs but it made familiar trails interesting again. After a few years of trying to go flat out all the time, it's nice to enjoy just being outside.
went from riding mtb with slicks to building up a cx stylee with drops because was fed up with sat up riding into wind on road sections and wanted something to ride green lanes/bridleways connect to roads
I can totally relate to that, it's always windy here, even my old racy 29er was horrible on road sections that were over a mile or two.
My liking for dropbars is fairly well known, but I also like raised bars.
One option we haven't considered so far is the upright tourer bar, aka Great North Road bar in tourer position (ie up not down). When bikes were transport, these were probably the most popular bars fitted because of their versatility. Our biking predecessors weren't stupid.
I like them for what I call scenery rides - which is when you're sitting upright and enjoying the view.
Obviously you're not aerodynamic riding upright, but because they are riser bars in that position, there's nothing to obstruct or stop you getting down to it if you want to, either to get out of the wind or get a bit of pace.
Last weekend I rode at audax pace for 125 miles on my Pompino with high bars like that. The wind was mainly in our favour, but when it wasn't I was able to get as low as I usually do with actual dropbars, ie head down to stem level. It just looks less elegant, keep those elbows tucked in! 🙂
By getting low, I was hitting 55km/h on the descents (according to my mate's computer), so aero is possible.
Of course, the disadvantage is that your bike might look like something a beardy old man rides rather than a heroic gnarrmac shredder, but I think I can carry the beardy old man look off quite well. 🙂
Once you have ridden a fully upright bike, you might find it addictive, an excuse for a N+1. (Plus you'll need a different saddle).
Pompino on gravel with a tourer bar.
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I havent used these bars but ....
What Gravel/Adventure bikes need is a bar/shifter combo which has a high wide position for offroad and a low narrow position for onroad.
Well, I'm not going to pretend I speak for everyone riding this style of bike but it strikes me you've got it arse about tit. I'm more likely to be on the hoods, cruising along on the road/track and in the drops when the descents get rougher and steeper. In both positions STIs work just fine - even for those of us with smaller hands.
It's been said already in this thread - they're not mountain bikes.
A few rides on on
sonsmy, ahem, new Boardman CX comp…Speed on road is addictive, it fair zips along, it’s light and adaptable. Reminds me of my first MTb.
After that, is it all just massive ingrained fashion?
Yes.
Go running instead.
HTHs.
Well, I’m not going to pretend I speak for everyone riding this style of bike but it strikes me you’ve got it arse about tit. I’m more likely to be on the hoods, cruising along on the road/track and in the drops when the descents get rougher and steeper. In both positions STIs work just fine – even for those of us with smaller hands.
I've heard this before. But I still dont understand why you would want to do this. What are the performance advantages ?
I can see that sometimes people would want to be in the drops for a more secure hand hold.
But To me this is more the rider fitting to the bar than the bar fitting to the job.
Also I dont really have this problem I do feel secure in the hoods and since I got hydraulic discs I have plenty of braking power.
Also why would I want to be bumbling along on the road ?
To be fair on my Gravel bike I am doing ok with the current drop bars, but I still feel the design could be improved specifically by having a wider bar position for off road.
Some people have described fixing this by having a high rise stem + flared drop bar. But this fixes one problem to create another ie the lose of an aero road position.
I’ve heard this before. But I still dont understand why you would want to do this. What are the performance advantages ?
Also why would I want to be bumbling along on the road ?
Not all riding is racing.
Some people have described fixing this by having a high rise stem + flared drop bar. But this fixes one problem to create another ie the lose of an aero road position.
Again, we're all individuals. I reckon my bars are set up lower than most though.
Not all riding is racing.
This true but again it suggests the bars are not optimal.
this also make some sense to me->
very expensive and difficult to get hold of
This true but again it suggests the bars are not optimal.
Optimal for what? Comfort, control, speed? Choose your poison but be prepared to accept compromise.
And those Soma bars - surely you can only brake/shift in one position? Seem to offer the worst of all worlds.
(plus they look shit)
Those Soma bars almost hit the spot.
The swept back portion looks handy, the parallel bit is just like being in the drop, but it really needs to curve up a bit more so the brake can end up in its normal position on a dropbar, then you could ride on the hoods too. That would make it very versatile.
Its advantage is that you wouldn't need the huge stack of spacers or riser stem needed to get a dropbar high enough for offroad, and also by permitting a low steering head, you can get much lower for when you need to be aero. A bonus is the cables run free instead of being restricted into tight curves on a taped dropbar. Plus it would save weight.
^^those soma bars ?-) no worries about are the hoods comfy and looks like you get to stuff used gum down the bar ends - useful
A few years after that I got a Croix De Fer, I sold it after 3 rides, horrible heavy lump.
not fair - mine was 2lbs heavier than my genesis equilibrium which was pretty good considering it had a steel fork, disc brakes, and heavier tyres, and 2lbs heavier than my tripster atr with all the same kit on - tripster is titanium with a carbon fork.
22.5lbs I think - good fun bike, persuaded me to upgrade to the tripster as that style of bike was so fun.
Yours must have been stock which had horrible wheels - I advised a mate to get one 2nd hand and then upgrade the wheel set if he liked it. He did like it but never upgraded the wheelset and still complains about the weight!