Looking at a new road bike and the model can come with either Shimano DI2 105 or SRAM Rival AXS I’ve only ever used Shimano road mechanical groupsets and to be honest never had an issue with them and found them very reliable.
I’ve got old AXS on my hardtail and while reliable it’s not the fastest smoothest shifting. What are the Rival groupsets like? Open to opinions on either pros or cons.
I have used the previous version of etap (red), currwnt rival axs, and current di 2. I don't notice the difference in shift quality between any of them tbh.
Obviously the sram lever config is different to di2, but the end result is the same. I imagine you'll be happy with either!
I'll caveat that by saying I also use mechanical tiagra on the winter roadie, and it's not much worse than the above..the difference is all in the front shifts. A well set up mechanical mech does the job just as well imo.
2x, I'd go with Di2 because I don't like the way you have to press both shifters on AXS to move the front mech.
Unless they've done away with that feature or you can use a satellite blip?
Di2 is better for 2x (IMHO).
1x, AXS because then it's just one lever up, one lever down.
I've got both, Di2 on the road bike and AXS on the gravel bike
Apart from the shift button difference (AXS one shifter for up, one for down and both together for front mech to shift) they perform the same
I prefer the AXS battery system as if one gets low you can swap it with the other (I do keep an eye on both systems battery level via my Garmin) plus its easy to carry a spare AXS battery if you wish
I prefer the Sram calipers as they don't tend to micro leak like Shimano calipers do (50% of all the Shimano calipers I've ever had have micro leaked)
A nice feature of both my systems (Ultegra and Force) is the built in buttons on the top of the hoods for changing the screen on my Garmin
I don't like the way you have to press both shifters on AXS to move the front mech.
You can re-configure the shifters in the SRAM AXS app, if you want. My set up uses the left lever to shift to a harder gear and the right lever to shift to a easier and the FD sorted itself out.And to be fair to Shimano, you can do the same with them, though it's a little trickier.
I've got 2 x 11spd (R8050 series?) Di2 Ultegra on my road bike and had 2 x 12spd SRAM Force AXS on my gravel bike (though I've now converted that to 1x...)
Anyway, id say the Shimano is MUCH better shifting as 2x - I had numerous problems with the SRAM front derailleur dropping the chain.
But, SRAM AXS is much easier to manage - the battery arrangement and charging is MUCH easier (even if it needs to be done more often), and the SRAM AXS app is much more polished than Shimano E-Tube. AXS is also cross compatible with MTB components (I'm not sure whether later Shimano is with later/current versions of Di2)
Talking of which, the version of E-Tube I have to use for my old Ultegra is garbage and bricked my system. This last weekend I had to spend many hours* fiddling with wires and batteries and laptops to fix it.
(Big shout out to bettershifting.com for a huge knowledge base about Di2 including all the old firmware versions)
OP - hopefully, the bike your looking as has fully wireless Shimano Di2. If it is, and if it's 2x, I'd say Shimano but if it's wired and/or 1x, is say SRAM
*My bike has the Di2 battery mounted in the seatpost and it has a non-standard seatpost clamp which makes it a pain in the ass to adjust seat height
It’s 2x I’m looking at, the di2 is wireless on the shifters but the front and rear mech run off wired battery.
definitely 105 Di2
Not used Di2, but I love my Force AXS and don’t see the issue with L&R tap to shift the front.
It’s 2x I’m looking at, the di2 is wireless on the shifters but the front and rear mech run off wired battery.
Ah, hopefully 105 Di2 is easier to "manage" than my older Ultegra...
Just FYI...Shimano E-Tube is a phone app OR can be installed in a Windows PC/laptop (not Mac!) and can be used for re-configuring shifters (ie firmware updates, synchro shift, number of gear changes per shift, what to use Aux buttons for - does 105 have them?). There's also a "professional" version of E-Tube which only shops have access to, which can do additional diagnostics.
You don't actually NEED to use E-Tube if the defaults work for you.
To note as well, if you have a Garmin head unit, it can be connected to Di2 or AXS which is useful for showing battery charge level (amongst other less useful things). I presume something similar is available is other head units...
Just note that you don't get the extra buttons on the top of shifters on 105, therefore you can't use them to change Garmin screens as someone suggested above.
I use 105 di2 and really like it, never used SRAM but the people I know with it also really like it so that probably doesn't help much!
Just note that you don't get the extra buttons on the top of shifters on 105, therefore you can't use them to change Garmin screens as someone suggested above.
It's also worth pointing out that Rival does not include extra buttons either. In fact, unless it's latest generation, neither does Force.
Another point for the OP, is that SRAM introduced a new generation of Force and Rival (and Apex??) a few months ago with better (smaller) shifters and better braking leverage. E1 is latest version with D2 being the previous version. Oh, and they introduced a gravel focussed, 1x XLPR version as well.
I presume most bike manufacturers will be off-loading bikes with the older versions at the moment...
I didn’t even think about it connecting to a gps, I currently use a Garmin Explorer 2. Not really thought or too bothered on programmable buttons, I Just want something reliable and from what’s being posted both systems seem fine.
I didn’t even think about it connecting to a gps, I currently use a Garmin Explorer 2.
Yeah, the Explore 2 doesn't connect to Di2 / AXS although that in itself isn't a dealbreaker, it just means that some functions (like viewing system battery and switching between screens) are not an option. Personally (as another Explore 2 user) I just leave the thing on maps display and have done with it. Maybe I'm not pro enough to be flipping between screens of my woeful stats... 😉
The E-Tube app is very useful although not essential - the system will all work happily without you ever connecting to it although it does occasionally get over-the-air firmware updates so it's worth getting it updated if it's in for a service.
It’s 2x I’m looking at, the di2 is wireless on the shifters but the front and rear mech run off wired battery.
Yep, the shifters have a coin cell battery in the top of them. It does make cable / wire routing much easier since there's only the brake hoses to connect. For what it's worth, last year's Lincoln GP (one of the oldest and most prestigious road races in the UK) was won by a guy using 105 Di2 which caused something of a sensation in amongst the cycling media!
I’ve got older Ultegra di2 - I generally really like it. Mine runs one big battery wired to everything. If the version you’re looking at has the 2 mechs wired to one big battery and the shifters on little batteries that rarely need changing I’d think that was better than the SRAM option of both mechs having their own smaller battery. The big battery doesn’t need charging that often - although it is annoying when you haven’t checked the battery level and it’s suddenly low (more user error).
I was considering moving from di2 to rival or force a little while back when I got microleaking ultegra calipers - but as a standalone purchase the sram stuff is super expensive. I like the sram cranks with the built in 2 sided power meter - that’s really nice. I also think the cassette range with small front chainrings is nicer then the Shimano setup. Plus the sram stuff looks nicer.
Overall I don’t think you can go wrong with either option tbh.
SRAM all day. I have two 11 speed eTAP Red bikes plus an eTAP TT bike and a Di2 TT trike. The TT bike and road race bike both have chainring power meters which is a nice option. Shimano have spent year catching up and only next year will go fully wireless. The shifting is a little nicer with Di2, but those big paddle for up and down the cassette on SRAM mean you can shift with your hands in almost any position (including aero puppy paws with your pinkies) and wearing gloves. My three SRAM are all running 1x but I have run a FD which only really served as a spare battery carrying chain catcher.
I’ve got the latest version of both. There’s no difference in shifting in my opinion, but the clutch on the Shimano system is better than the SRAM system.
Both have their pros and cons:
SRAM battery system is better (inc. charging being much less of a pain IMO)
Apps are pretty equal
Hood ergonomics is personal but I slightly prefer the new SRAM E1
SRAM E1 braking is better but uses Dot fluid so a bit more hassle to maintain
Supposedly Shimano front shifting is slightly better
Neither 105 or Rival have hood blips so I guess equal on that front (they're one of those things though that once you have you didn't know how much you'd use)
Not sure on cassette pricing and longevity but might be a factor (SRAM cassettes can be very expensive)
I’ve got the latest version of both. There’s no difference in shifting in my opinion, but the clutch on the Shimano system is better than the SRAM system.
Unfortunately none of the Shimano road derailleurs have a clutch - I guess you've got GRX di2. So that is a big point in favour of Sram. Although, as you point out, Rival uses a cheaper spring clutch whereas Force and Red use the 'orbit fluid damper', which does improve the performance.
I didn't mention it, but all of mine are rim brakes. If building a new rim brake option, it's going to be Di2 only. Oh how I'd like a 13-speed SRAM rim brake option, but none made and 12-speed is sold out. I upgraded my Giant Propel race bike to 1x11 for £800, which included shifters, RD and Red single ring crank power meter. All used and in excellent condition. This was after moving my TT eTAP Red 11 speed to the gravel bike (38 x 11-32T) and buying a pair of shifters for £180. I find the old hood shape more comfortable than my Dura Ace 9000 manual.
Looking at prices for groupsets, Rival is about the same as Ultegra, with 105 about £200 cheaper.
I have the older wired Shimano Ultegra Di2 on my road bike and Rival AXS on my gravel bike, both double chainsets. I agree the front shifting is better on Di2. Both systems are brilliant. The SRAM AXS app is really good. The ease of battery charging and ability to carry a spare is a big pro for AXS.
I did have one issue recently with the Di2 when I got some tree debris caught up in my rear mech and cassette. Somehow I managed to damage the Di2 cable clearing the debris out on the road. I had to limp home without a working rear mech. It was then a pain to replace the cable. I even had to knock out the bottom bracket to get to the hidden junction box, so new BB expense also. You don’t have any wiring vulnerabilities on AXS.
For road bike use I’m not fully convinced with the 10 tooth cog and smaller chainrings of SRAM. I prefer the mid compact with 11 tooth cog on Shimano but that’s just me being a bit fussy. For gravel AXS is great apart from the 36 tooth maximum rear cog on a medium cage rear mech. Apparently you can’t get a long cage on a double (I know you can on 1x).
For road bike use I’m not fully convinced with the 10 tooth cog and smaller chainrings of SRAM. I prefer the mid compact with 11 tooth cog on Shimano but that’s just me being a bit fussy.
The few times I've used SRAM double, I've really liked their approach to gearing with the 35/48 chainset and the 10-33 cassette.
Which is weird cos I can't stand the 34/50 compact of Shimano, it always feels like I'm in the wrong gear.
That said, all my road stuff now is Shimano 36/52 which is great.
Jumps on the back are smaller with a smaller chainring. I like the SRAM approach and my first 13 speed bike will be 1x with a 44 or possibly a 46 chainring. My race bike is 52 and 11-28. I don’t trouble the 11T greatly and don’t race hilly courses. On the gravel bike, with 38 and 11-32, I get much better value for money!
But I like the big paddles. I can’t lie.