[Closed] Riding on Low (zero) carb diet

Wow tom your my hero *swoon*

[i]Get over yourself. All of that is cancelled out by your need to use more than one exclamation mark/question mark.[/i]
This. Very much so.

I know, I'm sorry about that. I just find it frustrating sometimes because I spend my day trying to stop people dying from heart disease that we know now is caused by something completely opposite to what we thought. It sounds silly but its a bit like finding God (not that I have). You feel so great about it and you want everyone to feel like you do, but no one will listen.

I've dropped 10kgs in the last couple of years. Did it slowly.

Much better to train your body to burn carbs than cut them out.

Avoid processed starchy foods and go for whole grains, fresh vegetables, fruit etc. Cut out as much fat as possible and have cold pressed oils such as olive oil instead. Boost up low fat proteins.

Untoasted oats are a really good fuel and when combined with nuts, seeds, dried fruit etc make a pretty tasty soaked muesli.

you best get on the phone to the BHF Tom.

Tom above is absolutely right, (similar credentials here) it's all a bit of a hot topic in medicine at present, a very interesting subject. Have a read of Gary Taubes two books, "The Diet Delusion" for those that want a referenced academic read, or "Why We Get Fat" which is more accessible.
Even the great Tim Noakes S African Sports Medic and author of the Lore of Running has changed his mind about the high carb diet for athletes issues recently.

Also, you won't die on no carbs, the Innuit manage pretty well (or did when they were on carb free diets of fish and seal meat), and there's no such thing as a "fat burning zone", there's a burning more or less fat relative to glycogen and ingested carbs zone that's all.

I suspect the truth as ever lies in the middle, some carbs are ok for some/most of us and insulin resistance varies with age and genotype.

(Blimey Tom took a bit of flak while I was typing am I going to get the same? Still feel he needs defending though).

Trust me legspin, they are involved. Its just taking time.

I know, I'm sorry about that. I just find it frustrating sometimes because I spend my day trying to stop people dying from heart disease that we know now is caused by something completely opposite to what we thought. It sounds silly but its a bit like finding God (not that I have). You feel so great about it and you want everyone to feel like you do, but no one will listen.

I don't really care, you've refuted most of the comments folk have made, despite taking them out of context, now name some of these pro cyclists who eat no carbs at all please?

*bites lip*

For clarification

Amongst other reasons, the length of my commute and age of my children, and working hours (etc) means cycling to work is only possible during school holidays - which I do.

Despite only seeing my child for 1.5 to 2 hours per day, I still find time for exercise on average between 4 and 5 times per week, 'burning' between 10k and 20k calories per month

I completed more cycling miles than ever before last year as well as running nearly 500 miles and several half marathons (having never run before 2011). Losing over 70lb in the process. ( I now feel well versed in the virtues of eating sensibly and remaning active)

I have taken up regular swimming this year in an effort to prepare for several Triathlon events this year.

I am still 50lb+ from anything like the weight I want (and need) to be, and my Wedding (one of but not my sole inspiration) is approaching incredibly fast.

I have studied (and am still studying) evidence to suggest that carbs are satan's greatest success story, and am therefore keen to see what the body is capable of without them. Statements like those from TomHughes convince me more that I may not be on to a loser despite what the majority think.

dying from heart disease that we know now is caused by something completely opposite to what we thought

On a scale of 1 to 10 how sure are you that you're right this time?

If I'd asked you that before what would your number have been?

[i]*bites lip* [/i]
Lips can contain starchy carbs, Dave, careful.

Lips can contain starchy carbs, Dave, careful.

😆

Have a read of Gary Taubes two books, "The Diet Delusion"

Or the american press version of the same: ''good calories / bad calories''

One of the very books that has inspired me.
I see that there are at least a couple of people whom have taken the time to read & understand current evidence based thinking toward diet.

I think in time, everyone will come to realise that diet/nutrition as we have known it until now, is frankly wrong.

It's really simple. Find a way of eating that's suits your body and run with it.
I've found one that works for me, I'm happy. The OP is happy with his way.
Because you think you know about the body or do it for a living doesn't mean your right or wrong.
Let people do what they want. Technically there is no wrong way if you have the desired result and are healthy.
Basically we still know **** all on how the body works, which is a quote from someone I work with who you address as Prof.

[i]Basically we still know **** all on how the body works[/i]

Is right. For instance, if I eat a sausage, a little bit later I do a poo. But if I eat a poo, I don't do a sausage. Work that one out.

phil, you're absolutely correct we don't know its right, we just know we were wrong. If I had to go with a number I'd say based on the evidence that has been presented in the past 2-3 months (this stuff is moving fast) I'd say I'm personally 9/10.
But others are not so things are moving slowly.

Njee, sorry I missed your earlier comment. The athletes in question are pro triathletes, not cyclists. But also as I said above, carbs have their place and these athletes use them. They just use them to aid they recovery and during the last stages of races where the dipping into the muscle glycogen has taken its toll.
They are not using carbs in the traditional sense of carb loading and ingesting tonnes of carbs during the race. And no names I'm afraid it would be unfair to the athletes to disclose that.

[i]So you're saying that energy is our primary energy source?

You're not wrong, I suppose.
[/i]

Thats a reading the post [b]Fail[/b]

I said, the body uses energy.
Humans store energy in their body's.
One form of energy storage is body fat.

[i]*bites lip* [/i]
LOL, alot !.
Come on iDave. Surely you've learnt by now to laugh at some of the stuff being posted here.

[i]For instance, if I eat a sausage, a little bit later I do a poo. But if I eat a poo, I don't do a sausage. Work that one out.[/i]

PMSL
😆

so is this thread just a huge troll, or are most contributors blanking the last two years of stw diet advice?

AndyP wins an award for the best contribution to this thread!

But also as I said above, carbs have their place and these athletes use them.

Aah, so what you mean is that you refuted my comment, came up with an outlandish statement, and then can't back it up and actually agree with what I said 🙄

if I eat a sausage, a little bit later I do a poo. But if I eat a poo, I don't do a sausage. Work that one out.

Take a step back and squint your eyes at the poo. Looks like a sausage, right?

[i]Take a step back and squint your eyes at the poo. Looks like a sausage, right? [/i]
well, yes. But a veggie sausage, with all sweetcorn and that.

so is this thread just a huge troll, or are most contributors blanking the last two years of stw diet advice?

I think most people are taking the piss out of tomhughes for being a self aggrandising arse. Regardless of him being right or wrong.

[i]so is this thread just a huge troll, or are most contributors blanking the last two years of stw diet advice?[/i]

I'll have a go.

Seems to me, that for a very long time, the advise was to eat a low fat diet and count the calories.

Ignoring for a moment, what big business did upon this advise.

The low fat thing seemed to be based on a study by a bloke called Ancel keys.

Fast forward to the now, and it seems that Keys suggestion that high fat was bad. Was wrong.

So, it now appears to this member of the general public.
That we need to choose low GI foods, reduce the amount of sugar we consume AND do some moderate exercise.
There appears to be no need to obssess over each and every calorie.
The provinence of your food may be important.

If you're a race head, then you will need to adjust your diet to support your increased activity.

If you try high intensity activities for prolonged periods of time on too few fast carbs.
This may not bode well for your body.

Please feel free to correct me, you medical types.
I'm all ears / eyes, whatever.
🙂

I tried iDave and failed, I have however made a few changed, deliberate effort to not eat carbs with meals and it's had an impact certainly.

Breakfast is always protein, usualy egg or fish based as they require the least effort to make something palatable in the mornings. If there's no time I've found 'milk protein'/'calcium ceasinate' protein shakes work just as well, don't know if they follow milk with an insulin spike but its got to be better than cereal and milk.

Snacking I found I couldn't avoid, but where previously I ate barely any fruit but lots of chcoclate/harribo/biscuits I now regulalry eat an apple mid morning instead of reaching for the hob-nobs. Not idave, but an improvement.

Lunch and dinner I've almost completely abbandoned bread/pasta/rice/potatoes and subbed in either low carb alternatives, veg mash, just more veg or beans, or a combination of all 3, veggie bean mash is a new favourite! I now find carbs realy stodgy and can't eat more than a handfull of rice or a small potato.

Over time it gets easier and easier to skip out carbs, I'd hazzard a guess that cutting out ~150g a day just from meals cuts out the between meals cravings a fair bit.

Come on Tom.

This is STW, you've got to have a tough skin.

Don't let the others put you off.

I'm reading your posts.

The only thing I would add, to what seems like obvious commen sense above, is that the point of Atkins in my eyes is to proove that carbs aren't actually required at all.

I can understand the logic of pro atheletes using carbs as a tool to reload glycogen reserves & aid recovery, however this would break the keytosis cycle of someone wishing to burn only fat as a fuel - and lead to insulin spikes.

Not a problem for someone with minimal body fat reserves, but different for fatties.

Tom, id love to hear more of your experience and thoughts on the subject should you have time to write them down. Perhaps via email?

SJ78

I for one am getting your point.
You're experimenting, while trying to achieve a body weight goal.

As others have pointed out.
There is more than one way to get weight off.

Each to their own.
Good luck
🙂

Having read a lot about this and living with a dietician, I'm with Tom.

Having said that, no carbs is very, very difficult. Cutting out rice, potatoes and sweets etc is fine and obvious, but there are plenty of carbs in most fruit and vegetables including peas, carrots, beans etc.

Low fat is generally acknowledged to be bad though now. There are essential fats; there are no essential carbs.

It continuously intrigues me as to why people assume that dietary fat = body fat.

The countries which have the highest fat intakes (Japan, Switzerland, France) have some of the lowest levels of heart disease.

When exercising at a high level though, it seems carbs are required as they can be absorbed and "burnt" much faster than other energy sources. You can only "burn" fat at a fairly low rate and that rate is not high enough to ride say a mountain stage of the tour - however well you body has adapted.

Also bear in mind that that 2.2lb (1kg) of body fat contains 9000 calories so losing 1kg of body fat a week is still a pretty big effort and about the most which is sustainable and healthy. Adult intake is 2000-2500 calories a day so that gives you an idea of why losing body fat is difficult!

the thing I don't get is why you want to **** about "experimenting" with your diet. Eat healthily, make sure you exercise, and you'll be fine.

I'm saying this as a diabetic, so I'm always working out if I've had enough carbs, too much sugar etc. Why you'd do it if you don't have to is beyond me.

I tried iDave and failed

So now you do iDave plus an apple - that's how it appears from your description?

I get the whole fat thing, but if your greedy and eat to much fat you will still put weight on?

It continuously intrigues me as to why people assume that dietary fat = body fat.

the thing I don't get is why you want to **** about "experimenting" with your diet. Eat healthily, make sure you exercise, and you'll be fine.

Im experimenting to find out for myself fact from fiction and see what my body/metabolism is capable of.
Plus I have alot of weight to lose on order to reach my personal target, so, for those that missed it the first 3 times, and despite great success with the balanced diet & lifestyle that everyone is raving about, im going to turn my metoblism into a purely fat burning machine in order to a) see if that is even possible b) reach goal on time

Years ago everyone was told to "go to work on a egg". Then there was a study in the 70's saying that they were the work of the devil, high in fat and cholesterol so avoid like the plague. Far better to have cereal.

The 70's were around the time that choloesterol was first linked to heart disease. There was lots of mis-information at the time that the culprit was dietry fats - and unfortunately this stuck in the nations minds.
I forget the scientists name that discovered the cholosterol link, but even he came out recently saying essentially ''I never said it was linked to what we ate''

Wasn't having a pop Slimjim, it's just that I have to think about this stuff so I don't, you know, die and that.

Suppose I'm jealous that I don't have the luxury of being able to see what happens if I don't eat carbs.

The 70's were around the time that choloesterol was first linked to heart disease. There was lots of mis-information at the time that the culprit was dietry fats - and unfortunately this stuck in the nations minds.

I've idaved and it worked for me. I did eat carbs when I was actually out on the bike every now and again - as the great dave suggests.

I don't do idave all the time, but the principles of it work for me. Much more likely to come home and have a bowl of beans and some tuna than I am to sink a bowl of spaghetti these days. I have a very physical job and without question a bean/fish/veg breakfast keeps me going for much longer than cereal or toast.

Perhaps the most important thing I find in anything like idave is the fact that it just makes you think about your intake - and that in itself is a good thing.

I had a massive furniture order on between early December and late February which meant that I was generally too tired to get much cycling in. I have a tendency to eat junk when i feel like that but i was quite careful to keep up the proteins and minimise the carbs and it seems to have kept the weight off and kept me feeling healthier. Not to go into too much detail - but my innards just feel so much better too.

As people have said - whatever works for you. It's good that you're doing what you're doing but you've also got to enjoy life too.

See now I'm confused.

Tom and others seem to be categorically stating that carbs and insulin are totally responsible for weight gain and high fat has no down sides.

Yet a quick look at pubmed gives loads of very recent research on high fat diets being linked to obesity and diabetes (even very recent ie 2012).

And a paper has been presented today to the Society for Endocrinology linking high fat diets to, among other things, heart disease.

I just don't think that the science is as clear cut as some may believe.

Quite like the look of these, will try for Cheshire Cat this weekend

http://www.outsideonline.com/fitness/nutrition/The-Best-Energy-Bar-Ever.html

They look good.

31g carbs, 14g fat, 10g protein per serving which equates almost perfectly with the 55%, 35% 10% guidelines.

Nobody corrected my post.

I couldn't have got all that, correct ?, did I ?.

( I ask only in an attempt to get my own understanding correct )

Reminds me of something I read somewhere ( so I could be wrong) about breakfast. Years ago everyone was told to "go to work on a egg". Then there was a study in the 70's saying that they were the work of the devil, high in fat and cholesterol so avoid like the plague. Far better to have cereal. The nation bought it hook, line and sinker. Who funded the studies? Kellogg's don't know about you lot but if that's true I'd call that a master stroke.

Who do you think funded the 'Go To Work On An Egg' campaign? Oh, the Egg Marketing Board...

I'd call that, erm, an advertising campaign. 😉