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Try timing it … including getting it all lined up correctly etc. without spilling sealant.
Not including the last 2 with tyre inserts it’s not a case of feeble hands
Go look at the redbull TV Mx tire race. Apparently even Warner can replace an Mx tire quicker than all that faff.
To be honest I’m going nowhere near the sealant until I can reliably and repeatedly get the tyre seated.
Have you got the beto air tank fixed yet ? Your pissing in the wind if not
Go look at the redbull TV Mx tire race. Apparently even Warner can replace an Mx tire quicker than all that faff.
That seems to be 3m18 and the sealant seems to be invisible.
Regardless the point is or was taking out a valve core takes almost no time compared to fitting the tyre with sealant in to the point of just being able to inflate it, checking its over the valve and sitting decently.
Have you got the beto air tank fixed yet ? Your pissing in the wind if not
No... I kind of hoped that if I followed all the advice above, the tank might end up redundant.
I did try it again and to be honest it doesn't seem far off 4 seconds to dump all the air (with valve core out).
The rim tape is the only thing I haven't tried. It's got two wraps of the correct width tape but I fitted it a year ago, so might as well replace just to rule it out AND give it three wraps just to be sure.
Might just stick some tubes in and go experiment, the tubeless ready tyres are 50g heavier than the Conti clinchers I took off, so perhaps there's enough extra material in the tread to ward off the Hawthorne...
4 seconds to dump the air into the tyre is ages. The Airshot takes about a second or two max. I think the Beto is your issue here.
I use clear gorilla tape as I struggled with getting "proper" rim tape to go on evenly (and regular gorilla tape is an arse to get all the adhesive off when you need to replace it).
It's a little thicker too so maybe that helped with getting the tyres seated with a track pump.
Where are you based - maybe someone close by has a working inflator that you could borrow - that Beto one you have sounds useless...
Si
I had a bit of a nightmare introduction to tubeless tyres when I converted - I couldn't get my rim tape to stay in place (ended up at the LBS having them do it) and my first set of tyres were so tight they just wouldn't pop into place (another trip to the LBS who struggled too but finally got them to pop into place with a lot of GT85 and pressures of over 100psi. My second set of tyres were so loose I couldn't get them to inflate at all (seating with a tube and pulling the beads up onto the rim bed shoulders with a tyre lever sorted it).
But when you pull an inch long hawthorn out of your tyre and it seals in a fraction of a second and you're off again it really is all worth while.
Yeah but the Beto is bigger I think so might be delivering same flowrate as an airshot but twice as much air in total. Either way need to time it properly, have emailed Merlin in the meantime about an exchange.
My buddy bought a compressor which boasts 3CFM free air delivery, which is 1.4l/s. I didn't think that sounded much but right enough, that's probably twice what an Airshot can deliver. Don't really want to sink £120 for a compressor and gubbins though.
I think someone gave you the answer on the last page. Put a tube in, blow it up and leave it overnight. Then unseat one bead, remove tube and inflate.
The extra wraps of tape I've never really understood - if the tyre is tight it's going to make it really hard to get on the rim at all, and how does it help inflation?
The extra wraps of tape are to create as much of a seal as possible between the tyre and rim tape BEFORE it pops on, this way the air doesn't seep out around the sides and instead does what it's supposed to which is pop the bead on!
I agree though, 3 wraps seems like a lot, I always thought one or two was the norm.
Haven't tried seating one bead with a tube actually, had just left tube in over night to 'stretch' tyre. Have a nasty feeling the bead just popped off once I took tyre out, although that might just have been my clumsiness...
I bought one of the Lifeline inflators from CRC. I've only used it once though - that was on the fatbike tyres. Every other fitting I've just used my (old) EBC track pump.
Pre-fit tyre with tube.
Leave overnight.
Release one bead.
Remove tube.
Fit valve. (usually the cheapest I can find off Ebay)
Refit tyre.
Pump.
Release air.
Remove valve core. (needle nosed pliers)
Insert sealant.
Refit valve core. (using a wee Stans bottle)
Pump.
Shake.
Diluted baby shampoo/washing up liquid might be sprayed on the bead if it's having trouble seating. It's also handy for showing up any temporary leaks so I know where to concentrate the shaking.
It takes as long to write this down as it takes to fit the tyres 🙂
The extra wraps of tape are to create as much of a seal as possible between the tyre and rim tape BEFORE it pops on, this way the air doesn’t seep out around the sides and instead does what it’s supposed to which is pop the bead on!
What tyres and rims are these?
If the beto is working then it doesn't matter just make sure its seated properly before you start especially over the valve.
Make sure the tyre is nice and warm and there are no kinks in the bead or put the tube in and keep it next to a radiator etc.,
What tyres and rims are these?
Vittoria Terreno Wet 33mm, Pacentic Forza rims, Pacenti rim tape, Pacenti valves.
I experimented with some 38mm Terreno Drys during the summer on same wheels/tape/valves. They went straight up with a track pump, no soapy water or jiggery-pokery with beads, just some 'energetic' pumping. Don't understand why the 33mm Wet tyres which presumably have the exact same bead construction etc. won't go up just as easily, perhaps the 3 months of riding I had done on the Dry tyres before trying to seat them tubeless made it easier?
Don’t understand why the 33mm Wet tyres which presumably have the exact same bead construction etc. won’t go up just as easily, perhaps the 3 months of riding I had done on the Dry tyres before trying to seat them tubeless made it easier?
When I get a stubborn tyre its usually the bead. A kink or similar... hence why I was stressing above to take your time getting the tyre on properly etc. Soapy water etc. all helps...
Making sure the tyre is warm helps and leaving a tube in usually does the same thing.
Quite often they leak all over but just keep going and if necessary you can keep pumping, ultimately you just need to be putting air in faster than it leaks out.
I haven't timed it but I don't think 4-5 secs in total is out of the way...obviously the flow decreases over time hence sometimes you can just top it up a bit whilst once it pushes part onto the bead less escapes...
Where are you in the country? Could there be someone local to you that could have a go with their air inflator (whether that’s airshot / compressor / converts fire extinguisher etc) and see if that works?
I know lots of people do manage it, but I’ve never managed to pop a tubeless tyre on just with a track pump. Maybe you need to have a high volume pump rather than one that does higher pressures.
OP ... Despite having posted earlier about how easy it is, I do feel your pain, as my induction to tubeless was similarly problematic.
I do think that some tyre/rim combo's are more problematic.
I certainly struggled with my initial gravel and road tyre installations, experiencing some similar problems to you. BUT, it is worth persevering.
I assume they are TR rims and tyres? (Sorry, kind of obvious, but worth checking.)
I suspect that three wraps of tape will be too much unless the tyre has a baggy fit ... One or two is usually enough in most cases.
The trick about the inner tube left in overnight not only helps seat the bead, buy also helps press down the tape into the wheel rim.
Removing the valve core and using soapy water should in most cases work, it takes virtually no time to do it. Whilst there are clearly plenty of people who manage to do so with the core in place / no soap / just a track pump, I still always use an air shot, soapy water and remove the core as it just works (now, for me) every time.
It does sound as though your can may be faulty, so you will likely continue to experience problems until you have one that works.
Where are you? Have you got a mate to help you through the process? Sure that there will be people on here willing to lend a hand.
Had a bit of trouble seating a WTB Raddler (700 x 40C) the other week, i'd previously set up a WTB Nano (700 x 40c) using a borrowed Topeak Booster pump, with about 100psi discharged from the tank.
Raddler wasn't having none of it, had to charge about 160psi into the tank, right at the pumps limit before it would seat the rim. Got there in the end. think it depends on the tyre tbh, I've never had any problems with MTB tyres either.
I've just bought a Giant Control Tank for future endeavours, looks like a rocket launcher.....hope it works like one.
Plot thickens...
Just randomly tried the other wheel (didn't even remove valve core, no soapy water) aaaaaand the Beto pretty much popped it straight up!
Strange mix of confusion/embarrassment/elation/residual frustration...
Have left troublesome wheel sitting with tube in, will revisit tomorrow.
Need to go for a run, slithering about in the mud should ease the pent up angry! 😁
Just randomly tried the other wheel (didn’t even remove valve core, no soapy water) aaaaaand the Beto pretty much popped it straight up!
Yep. Had that too. With gravel and road tyres initially. Probably 'just one of those things' ... 🤷♂️
Lots of mentions on here about removing large hawthorns etc when out on rides while running tubeless . Bit risky if you ask me, if I do get a large hawthorn in the tyre I just leave it there to act as a plug and let the sealant do it’s job.
I would not risk removing anything large from the tyre just in case the sealant is not able to seal the hole. You then risk having to plug it or fitting a tube to get you home.
I do of course remove all thorns etc if you find you have no choice but to fit a tube when stuck in the middle of nowhere.
It’s amazing just how many punctures you find you have swerved when you take a tyre off and run your fingers around the inside 😂
Plot thickens…
Just randomly tried the other wheel (didn’t even remove valve core, no soapy water) aaaaaand the Beto pretty much popped it straight up!
Came back to suggest you tried the other tyre.... leave the one with the tube in somewhere nice and warm ... if you take it off check the bead before fitting ... obviously if it works leave it ... if it is a bit funny/kinked it will flatten over time and prob get a bit of stans
Blocked valve core?
I agree though, 3 wraps seems like a lot, I always thought one or two was the norm.
Na, think about the vast range of tyre sizes versus rim sizes, it's a complete lottery, there's nothing in the way of tolerances is standard really.
Just to annoy you further, I found Stans race to be pretty shite, went back to the peasant Stans. 🙂
Just to annoy you further, I found Stans race to be pretty shite
Yes. That is annoying 😉
In what way? Still undecided about sending Beto tank back so could still return Stans unopened...
I had a few wee issues that , in my opinion, peasant stans would have sealed. You can never be sure, but I've been tubeless for mibbe 10 years, so have a fair idea of what works.
I think you have a rim tape leak. - can be hard to spot and seldom seal if next to the valve hole...
I might be asking a stupid question, but when using the Beto tank do you also pump like a mad man or just hope the tank does all the work? Some stubborn tyres need some furious pumping as well as the initial blast of air.
I think you have a rim tape leak. – can be hard to spot and seldom seal if next to the valve hole…
They'll know that when they swap tyres onto the other rims...
Send the air tank back, worst they can do is tell you there is nothing wrong with it or replace it for one that is exactly the same?
It certainly doesn't sound right from what you describe.
Sooooo... a brief stay of execution for the Air Tank, after sitting for a night with a tube in (a tube which apparently had a slow puncture as it was flat this morning) I demounted one bead of the troublesome tyre, stuck the air tank on, and hey presto, an inflated and seated tyre (albeit with a little bit of pumping also, just to be sure). The other tyre was still holding air from the night before, even without sealant, so thumbs up there.
So, many thanks to those who suggested putting a tube in first and then only unseating one bead.
As for the air tank though, I'm going to unseat both tyres on one side only and try again with just the track pump, my suspicion is that I don't even need the air tank, and if it can't just 'bully' any old tyre on to the rim first time then I don't see the point in it frankly.
The learning curve continues, it'll be the weekend at this rate before I even attempt to put sealant in 😀
As for the air tank though, I’m going to unseat both tyres on one side only and try again with just the track pump, my suspicion
My suspicion is you had a kink in the bead and the inner tube flattened it out ...
is that I don’t even need the air tank, and if it can’t just ‘bully’ any old tyre on to the rim first time then I don’t see the point in it frankly.
My suspicion is you had a kink in the bead and the inner tube flattened it out ...
It won't bully something on that is not over the valve or has a kink in the bead...
is that I don’t even need the air tank, and if it can’t just ‘bully’ any old tyre on to the rim first time then I don’t see the point in it frankly.
It wont bully something with a major issue but it will make it easier for something a bit more stubborn.
It is also the right right tool for the job, yes I could do the track pump Olympics, wrap a ratchet strap around it or use an inner tube to seat it before removing 1 side etc or I could put the tyre on, slosh some soapy water around and give it a quick blast with the tank. Job done.
Merlin want the tank back to inspect for warranty, I need to figure out if it's really underperforming or if my tyres are just difficult. Don't want to fork out sending it back only to discover it's actually fine. Will time it one more time but the fact I can hear a metallic hissing noise before I even get it to pressure is probably a sign.
If it isn't faulty, I wonder what else you could do to improve performance, shorten the hose to reduce resistance? I'd remove the plastic gubbins from the valve head but you need them to create the seal around the valve stem...
Anyway, I got there in the end, adding sealant actually made tyres more stubborn again which surprised me, I guess maybe some particles of sealant got between bead and rim tape? Either way, valve cores out (proper tool is in the mail...) and the Air Tank got the tyres up, just.
Good, at least you can ride and try it out now. If it's hissing before the expected pressure, send it back for sure.
Could be the seal between your pump and the tank? My Airshot does that sometimes with my SKS track pump, which is a bit temperemental. Maybe worth trying a different track pump if you have one.
but the fact I can hear a metallic hissing noise before I even get it to pressure is probably a sign
What are merlin saying ? Is it going to cost you money to send it back?
If the worst case is they say "no its fine" and send it back free then why not just send it to them?
I've not timed mine but it discharges over a few secs... this actually allows you to "bully" the tyre if any bits are leaking. All it needs to do is get them to seal to the point you can keep pumping at a normal rate to get them to seat fully.
Just picked up this thread, sounds a right nightmare. I'm used to putting on some very big, baggy tyres on may fat and plus bikes, just using a standard (homemade) airshot.
The thing that makes it super easy every time is using fattystrippers (careful if you google!). Basically resistance band strips that do the same job as tubeless tape but overlap the edge of the rim. They catch on the tyre straight away being soft and flexy, creating a 'soft seal' without any air in, so its pretty easy to get pressure quickly. Managed quite a few fat tyres with just a track pump.
Dunno why these aren't more in use for skinny tyres (weigh far less than 3 layers of tape too). -just an observation really!
40mpg
They catch on the tyre straight away being soft and flexy, creating a ‘soft seal’ without any air in, so its pretty easy to get pressure quickly.
Yep, I wonder if the OP isn't expecting something magic ???
Ultimately it's just getting a good enough seal to pump it up easily. I'll avoid the google for now 😉 but I have some resistance bands from physio ... I can easily see how that would work might give it a go next time I have a stubborn one.
Just found this. I've used a Bontrager Flash charger for years. The hose snapped and Bontrager in their infinite wisdom don't sell a spare that fits.
So I bought a Beto bump and airtank. Finally needed to use it this week and like the OP, the airflow is rubbish and it won't inflate my 38c gravel tyres that went on fine with the Bounty pump. Its like just using a pump, it doesn't dump enough air in to pop the tyre up onto the rim.
I suspect I've left it too long to send back though which is disappointing. Time to buy an airshot....
With a bit of practice mine is *just* good enough, although I still prefer to pop a tube in first to get one bead popped on, gives the Beto 50% less to do.
Is disappointing though, you can hear extra spurts of air coming out of the tank randomly even after you've disconnected it, no idea what that's about!
Never did return it, would have been expensive postage so on balance I thought it was more useful than not.
Would be nice if someone was brave enough to dismantle one and figure out how to improve airflow through it!
Odd mine dumps loads in when charged to 160 psi with the valve core out. The only tyre it hasn't inflated is one that was way too baggy (700c and not a tubeless tyre onto awkward rims).
Aye my Beto was hit or miss it packed up so bought an airshot!!! Different class 🙂