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Reluctantly going tubeless after too many Hawthorne strikes.
Although my Vittoria gravel tyres go up with just a track pump, my new Vittoria CX tyres are proving trickier.
Invested in the Beto surge tank which seems to get unanimously good reviews, dumps a tank of air into the tyres in 4 seconds apparently.
Except... mine does nothing, I'd swear I could pump faster! Does anyone else have one, are they just a bit fickle or should it pop the tyre up instantly?
It's so poor I should have legitimate cause to return it but postage won't be cheap...
Remove valve cores if you haven’t already.
Was trying to remove cores but gave up, Pacenti must have loctited them in place! It dawned on me though that the air is seeping out of the Beto tank pretty slowly even when detached from the wheel, I don't think it's the valve that's stopping it...
My beto tank has been fine. Definitely check Tyre is seated correctly and go for minimum 160psi before inflating.
Remove valve cores and spray some soapy water on the beads, if you still have the valve core in then it doesn't matter what tubeless inflator you're using.
Hope you didn't get it from Tredz? I sent one back a few weeks ago as faulty as it wouldn't hold air (leaked when you stopped pumping the track pump)...
Would hate to think they'd just pop it back into stock!
Replaced it with a Birzman tank, which seems to work brilliantly even though you can't use it with the valve core removed.
All the videos and reviews I've seen have the valve core in...
Didn't get it from Tredz, but yeah, there is some leakage once you get past 120psi.
Time to send it back I think 🙄
Really is best to remove the cores. Once the tyres are seated you can then remove the pressure and squirt the sealant in through coreless valve then reinstall!
Then you can do all the seating faff without having sealant sloshing all around.
The soapy beads is good advice, even neat washing up liquid which also helps a little getting them to seal.
As for the tank, sounds faulty to me.
Get the cores out! Then pump like a proverbial on the track pump!
You don't have to remove valve cores or soapy water for all tyres, but whenever I've had a stubborn tyre then those two methods have always worked. A valve core is so easy to remove it seems silly not to surely.
Put a tube in and inflate the tyre with plenty of pressure . This will seat both sides of the tyre on the rim bead
Then deflate and CAREFULLY remove one side of the tyre leaving the other side seated on the rim
Remove the inner tube and then apply some neat washing up liquid to the tyre bead
Add your sealant, fit the tyre and then inflate with core valves removed
You should be good to go!
Definitely not escaping from the tyre? I'm the too baggy tyres on a particular rim I had to use zip ties to hold the tyre near the bead even with an inflator.
My beto inflator has been great. Other than the weird setup above it works every time.
Definitely sounds like the inflator isn't working right.
I've got the Lifeline pump/inflator and that dumps 250psi in only a few seconds.
I wouldn't expect it to be leaking at 120psi.
BETO air tank user. No problems, no leaking, never failed to seat a tyre and don't usually remove the cores or take it to 160 psi. I only use it if the track pump fails initially. It also holds air well and dumps it in pretty quickly. One set of tyres did require more pumping on top, I think it was Vittoria Torreno Mix on WTB i19 rims. I sometimes use a small amount of silicon grease smeared around the bead of the tyre to help it seat properly on the rim and I am still alive and able to type this...
Sounds like yours isn't quite right.
I have a beto tank, its rubbish, it takes about 4 seconds to empty even when not connected to a tyre. Which is 3.75 seconds too slow.
Its in the shed unused.
I bought a trackpump/tank combo from crc, that dumps its air in a second and inflates 2.5 mtb tyres instantly.
I would at least try and borrow another inflator first.
This is mine, its brilliant.
https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/lifeline-airblast-tubeless-tyre-track-pump/rp-prod155451
Definitely not escaping from the tyre? I’m the too baggy tyres on a particular rim I had to use zip ties to hold the tyre near the bead even with an inflator.
This is the only situation where I had to give up on tubeless. If the tyre is too loose and air escapes all the way around it I found that it just wouldn't go up even with an airship type thing.
I don't believe tyre is too baggy, was pretty tight to install anyway.
Will just need to accept defeat and start messing about with soapy water and tie down straps and removing valve cores etc. etc.
Had really hoped the air tank would have been the silver bullet that would make all of the above redundant, this is exactly the sort of faffle and guesswork that made me give up on tubeless first time round ☹
The beto for me was the magic bullet, though I always take the core out (did it this way years before getting any inflator). I was using a diy plastic bottle before which was a faff, leaked and you couldn't put the pressure up that high. The beto was just so simple compared. Although I don't I can leave the beto charged up for days. It does sound like yours is not right.
Will time how long it takes to empty then probably send back.
Is there a better solution than soapy water for the beads? Had always thought it might dilute the sealant somehow...
With a little space for it in my garage and a bit of eBay shopping I opted for a full hobbyist size compressor when I went tubeless and as a matter of course I use a little soapy water and remove the valve core for all of the tyres I fit.
Straps around the tyres are where it seems to become a faff to me. A jug of soapy water to hand and a valve core tool really doesn’t seem too much trouble at all.
Sometimes when I have had that problem, the valve hasn't been between the two beads properly, so the air was coming out the sides instead of going into the tyre. A little fiddling with that has made the difference between tyre going up and not
Sounds like you just need to get the air tank replaced with one that works.
If the tyre is too baggy, some more tubeless tape takes up that gap, if the gap is too big, and you've not removed the valve, no inflator will seat it.
The tyre being a but tighter means the watery soap won't really dilute the sealant either.
I keep meaning to buy a proper inflator, but the 1l coke bottle DIY one I've been using for years now keeps rolling on. 2.6 Mary popped on first time yesterday.
Valve core removal often means a decent track pump will do the job if you pump quickly. I have an old Dettol spray bottle filled with water and a squirt of washing up liquid, you can just spray a light mist on the outside bead so very little dilution would happen.
I don't know what the resistance to soapy water or removing the valve core is? Pop tyre on rim. Remove core. Load air-shot. Small soapy sponge around both sides of the rim. Dump air. Pop pop pop. Disconnect air shot. Add sealant via syringe through the valve. Pop core back in. Reinflate. Swirl the wheel around. Put wheel back in frame. Go for a ride.
I have had stubborn set-ups before (mostly road tubeless) which usually are to do with leaking tape or valves, and failing that, an inner tube pumped up overnight under a new tyre usually means setting it up tubeless the next day is pretty straightforward.
start messing about with soapy water and tie down straps and removing valve cores etc. etc
Removing valve cores isn't messing about... it's 10 seconds of making life easy. If you managed to get the tyre on in under a minute then it's too baggy .... if not then 1min or 1 min 10 secs seems acceptable.
Is there a better solution than soapy water for the beads? Had always thought it might dilute the sealant somehow…
Why does that worry you? I just run neat or 50/50 fairy or whatever round the bead then spray with water...if some part doesn't seal then you get nice bubbles to tell you where.
I pulled a nail out of a tyre Saturday ... bounced it about and the tyre sealed ... went and rode it on a set of dirt jumps at 40 psi - why worry????
Don't discount the air tank being faulty, I had one a few years back (may have been a Bonty one, I cant remember) and it never gave the rush of air I was expecting.
After a few months I questioned it with my LBS and it turned out to have a faulty valve that never fully opened so I got some air, just not the sudden blast I should have had.
I've a Beto tank and it's been okay; it doesn't seem to force the air out too quickly but then it's the only tank I've had so don't have a comparison.
On some really baggy tyres I've had to use the tube trick but another approach is to hook a tyre lever under the bead and then run it around at 90° to the rim (on both sides). This pulls the tyre bead up onto the shoulder of the rim bed rather than sitting in the middle channel (you can usually feel things tightening up as you go); it can make a huge difference.
If you managed to get the tyre on in under a minute then it’s too baggy
Rubbish.
Echo what others have said - no way that it should take that long to empty the air tank.
I've used a DIY coke bottle one and then made one from a fire extinguisher as I was a bit worried about the bottle getting damaged and going bang.
I always pop the valve cores out, sometimes the tyre goes up with a track pump but the rest of the time the extinguisher does the trick (bit of soapy water on the bead every time btw).
I've had issues with a really loose tyre, but it went up eventually.
Yes, I can probably put a tube in and get that inflated and ready to ride more quickly. But then I'd have to deal with punctures out on the trail in the cold and wet, run higher pressures etc.
For me, the small amount of faff is acceptable for the massive benefits.
Hope you get it sorted. If you're local to High Peak you're welcome to come and grab my extinguisher inflator thing and borrow it for a while. Can disinfect it and leave it outside so covid safe rules can be followed.
Si
Rubbish
Come on then lets see a video 😉 .... tyre and sealant onto rim and ready to inflate in a minute without spilling any...
It's quite possibly possible but I reckon a minute is pretty quick...
(I end up doing lots of timed challenges for fun as the kid always say's "that'll take ages". )
As above:
1) it sounds like your tank is faulty. Send it back. I can throughly recommend the airshot - it is better then the combined pump / tank I had before. It’s so simple I’m not even sure how it could go wrong. I bought one of the neoprene sleeves to go over it so it doesn’t get all scratched up etc.
Bottle sock:
Airshot:
2) Take the valve cores out. The little plastic core removers that come with valves aren’t fb rear - especially if you’ve got a stubbornly tight core. I’ve got one of those red anodised Stan’s core removers per the below link. You can probably find them cheaper on eBay or a rip off version too.
3) sealant through the valve - one of these is good for that:
4) if it’s really stubborn then a weak water / washing up liquid mix will help - but using the airshot it’s popped pretty much anything up without that.
If you managed to get the tyre on in under a minute then it’s too baggy
Tosh. I'd suggest if it's taking more than a minute then your going to be in for a rough ride when you do puncture out on the trail. Or have feeble hands.
Sounds like the valve core is clogged to me. Take it out, soap the bead and make sure you’ve got 160 psi in the Beto - that a lot of pumping. I bounce the wheel as I fill which moves the tyre a little and helps it seat.
If that doesn’t work then it’s usually the tape that’s leaking or the valve is not fastened on to the rim tightly enough.
Come on then lets see a video 😉
When we see a video of you doing these dirt jumps!
Tosh. I’d suggest if it’s taking more than a minute then your going to be in for a rough ride when you do puncture out on the trail. Or have feeble hands.
Try timing it ... including getting it all lined up correctly etc. without spilling sealant.
Not including the last 2 with tyre inserts it's not a case of feeble hands but getting the thing properly aligned on both sides.
I had one of those Beto tanks for a day or two. It wouldn't seat an awkward tyre, and my Dad's Airshot did it immediately.
Sent the Beto back and got an Airshot.
Sometimes when I have had that problem, the valve hasn’t been between the two beads properly, so the air was coming out the sides instead of going into the tyre. A little fiddling with that has made the difference between tyre going up and not
Have had this too. Even if it is between the beads, if it's a loose tyre, a little bit of massaging to spread the beads and then gentle pressure on the tyre above the valve to keep the beads pressed against the rim can make a difference.
That said, it sounds like your inflator isn't working right.
Thanks all.
Will have a play. Resistance to removing valve cores largely because A) I've always thought that was a poor solution, tiny wee delicate cores and easily rounded plastic tools never seemed ideal. Will look at
an alloy tool.
Oh, and B) I already tried to remove them, they're so tight the valve just started spinning in the rim instead (see: faffle 🙄 )
Just use pliers to remove the cores no special tools needed
Yup, pliers. Just out of interest, how were you planning on getting the sealant in there after you'd inflated the tyre?
**** this shit.
I thought the days of ghetto tubeless bodging were past but nope, despite shelling out for all the 'proper' kit, even making sure I bought the same brand rim strip and valves as my rims, I'm still having to **** about removing valve cores, spraying soapy water all over everything, buggering about trying to 'half' seat the bead with a tyre lever (hint - it doesn't work if the bead is now all soapy) and just generally pumping away like a lunatic on my track pump, it still doesn't inflate.
I guess now I need to buy another £20 worth of rim tape and play 'guess how many wraps' to ensure I've got the magical amount that the tyre seals, but not so much that I can't take the fupping thing off trailside.
Just out of interest, how were you planning on getting the sealant in there after you’d inflated the tyre?
Well more fool me I shelled out for Stan's 'Race' sealant as, you know, I wanted something that actually worked as in a past life I'd been through the whole disheartening experience of watching tiny little jets of sealant piss out through pinprick holes in the tyre. Apparently you can't inject Stan's Race so IF and WHEN I get the tyre seated, I'll need to un-seat it all over again to put the sealant in...
I'm mostly just angry at myself, I told myself years ago I was never going to put myself through all the aggro again, I just figured this time the kit might have moved on a little bit...
Edit: aaaaand breathe. I appear to have gone full Badger. More rim tape on order, will try again next week perhaps...
tiny wee delicate cores and easily rounded plastic tools never seemed ideal
11G spoke key...
Apparently you can’t inject Stan’s Race so IF and WHEN I get the tyre seated, I’ll need to un-seat it all over again to put the sealant in…
Or, just remove the valve cores first, inflate the tyre (bet it pops straight on) and squirt sealant in 🙂
Nah, won't inflate even with valve cores out, and I think Stan's Race sealant will clog a valve won't it? That's why you're only supposed to pour it in with the tyre unseated.
To be honest I'm going nowhere near the sealant until I can reliably and repeatedly get the tyre seated.