I'm looking to get a new gravel bike/all road/bike packer bike. I currently have five bikes:-
Old 90's rigid MTB that's used for commuting - pannier mounts front/rear - so could be used for bike packing but slow and heavy - a baby elephant is lighter.
Two vintage 90's road bikes which can't take guards etc and no way am I damaging either by attaching stuff - too sentimental
Colnago World Cup CX bike - managed a four day bike packing (with camping gear) on it but it's compromised in that it has no mounts, and the bodged pannier rack wasn't too steady. Held up fine, but handling was 'interesting' and I developed hand strain hanging onto the brakes on the descents - the canti brakes worked well, but required too much sustained 'pressure'. Of the three of us riding the KAW, two of us had canti's and struggled with hand strain. The Colnago is used regularly off and on road, and with the gearing and road wheels it's great for very hilly rides and steep hills.
Full Sus MTB - used it with bike packing bags, but only over a couple of days where a CX/gravel bike would not have managed. Pub stop over, no camping stuff.
What I want is something with mounts - ideally fork and pannier mounts. Needs to take mudguards. I'll run it as a road bike and essentially an off road tourer. Want something not too compromised on road, so not a MTB type gravel bike with huge tyres - I've got a FS and a rigid MTB that do this.
Want spare wheels - one set for road (probably carbon) and one set alloy for off road. 2x GRX Di2
Budget is £3.5k with bike to work. Merlin are doing Ridley's at a fab price, but the only downfall is a lack of mounts - no pannier, and fork mounts a bit limited - they seem more race orientated.
I have seen the Dolan GXC 2.0. Specced up I could have 2x GRX Di2 (I want 2x, not 1x due to road use and gear spacing) with both carbon and 'spare' alloy wheels under £3.5k.
Intended use is to do a bit of road and off road bike packing, but also be a capable road bike. My CX bike does most, but it's not suited for carrying loads.
What do you have/recommend ?
something planet x?
something ribble?
Sonder?
Pinnacle 'whatever they offer in your price range'? My arkose 2 is great but doesn't have fork mounts. Bought for £2750 less than your target price.
PX on the list and Ribble but we're 'Cycle Solutions' at my employer....boooo (hence Dolan just so having the GXA / GXC / GXT range). I fancy carbon as everything else I have is steel or aluminium. Ti makes sense for something that's going to get filthy. I don't really want frame mount bags. I already have panniers.
My CX does everything - really happy with it, bought second hand two years ago. I ride it most after the commuter, but it's compromised when you start to try and add luggage. Be fine for pub bike packing, but not hauling a tent/sleeping bag and cooking stuff.
My plans were either an exotic second hand road bike (another Colnago) but buying that with cash (and I've two rather nice vintage road bikes), or something I could actually use more and save money using the bike scheme. I don't do a ot of pure road rides these days, it's usually a bit of a mix.
MrsF has hinted about me doing some more bike packing with the lads, as she's been off on 'wild swimming' holidays with friends (Scotland, Croatia and Iceland). PS my kids are adults !
Old 90's hardtail with a cheapo rigid fork and some qr 650b wheels.
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Only converted it recently so not had chance to throw the bags on it yet and it's now sporting a not so comically long stem.
Rolls well on the road and fireroads - not as quick on road as my touring bike but way more capable off road because of the flat bars.
Going to throw a wider range cassette at it and convert to tubeless.
Steering is a little quick as it originally had a 140mm pike on it but manageable unless it gets very technical. Could easily get a bigger tyre, probably a 2.2", in the front but the rear is about as large as I would be comfortable with at 47mm.
I can help you rule out bikes...
A Genesis CDA, CdF or TdF would tick all your boxes but none of them have Di2.
The Cannondale Topstone Carbon 2 comes with 2x Di2, but that lacks pannier mounts.
The Sonder Camino is only available with SRAM wireless.
And an overloaded CX bike....
I think I'd go with a Sonder Camino Ti (this spec. https://alpkit.com/products/camino-ti-grx2-di2 based on your requirements, although personally I'd choose the 1x Force spec.) although you'd still need to buy a second set of wheels (I have some Elitewheels SLR Gravel via their AliExpress store that were about £400 delivered and work well, although I've only used them on-road with 35mm slicks)
Keep an eye on tyre clearance, 45mm+ on gravel bikes is becoming more common.
I think my eGrade Bolt takes 47mm, but yet to try anything wider than 40mm Marathon Supremes and the supplied 40mm Nanos.
Looking at these - decent tyre clearance and only an hour from my house.
I absolutely love by base spec Camino (1x SRAM and hydro brakes). Can only imagine that the ti one with a top notch groupset is flippin epic. Think I'd struggle to look past a ti Camino if I wanted a top notch gravel bike...
I'll take a more detailed look at the Camino - would have to go with more 'traditional bars' - can't get my head round the very flared bars.
2x is increasingly difficult to find on gravel bikes. I bought a Canyon Grail CF SLX recently and although it's slightly compromised on mounts (it's Canyon's "race" gravel bike rather than their "adventure" range), it had 2x GRX Di2, which is excellent.
I run mine with various bits of Tailfin bikepacking bags, it accepts those with no problems although the integrated / one piece carbon bar won't take their bar bag.
The old version of the Grizl (their adventure range) had a 2x option, the new range doesn't. 🙄
You could get a Sonder Camino titanium for £2500 but that's 2x mechanical GRX.
Fairlight still do 2x on the Secan and have fork mounts. They are a really nice company to deal with too. I have one and use it exactly as you describe. Its superb.
I think I'd go with a Sonder Camino Ti (this spec. https://alpkit.com/products/camino-ti-grx2-di2 based on your requirements, although personally I'd choose the 1x Force spec.) although you'd still need to buy a second set of wheels (I have some Elitewheels SLR Gravel via their AliExpress store that were about £400 delivered and work well, although I've only used them on-road with 35mm slicks)
Weirdly, that didn't appear in my initial search.
Good shout on the Elitewheels SLRs too. My mate just ordered a pair for his gravel bike.
@fossy Alpkit may allow you to swap the flared Bomber bars to their more traditionally shaped Hurricane or Spitfire models.
That's a decent budget that puts you in Cotic territory. Both their drip bar bikes have millions of mounting points for bikepacking. I haven't ridden one but would like to try out a Cascade
Fairlight still do 2x on theSecanand have fork mounts. They are a really nice company to deal with too. I have one and use it exactly as you describe. Its superb.
Mines just arrived, only been out in the car park at work so far but that's enough to make me think I'm really going to like it. I'd not thought of it as an all road/winter road bike but the car park says it'd make a great one.😊
Camino Ti, Fairlight, and Dolan Ti are my current shortlist. A mate has the Dolan ADX and no complaints
Camino Ti, Fairlight, and Dolan Ti are my current shortlist.
I very nearly went with the Camino Ti but then when I'd finally decided on the exact spec I wanted they ended the sale. The Secan frame is as light as the Camino Ti, Sonder have clearly prioritised durability over weight and so the only real advantage of the Camino was no paint finish to think about. So the Secan won. The other one in the running was the Mason Bokeh
Vagabond plus £2950 in your pocket...
I bought this a couple of years ago for £550. It's a great do everything bike. The only negatives are weight (lighter wheels would massively help) and a side swing front mech sorts out mech/tyre interference with 2.0+ tyres.
I'm tempted to try a carbon fork and lighter wheels, but currently it all works well and doesn't ride heavy - you only notice it when lifting over a fence/gate.
Good options there, some I didn't think about...
I've mentioned these before but Merlin are still doing half price Tripsters.
https://www.merlincycles.com/kinesis-tripster-at-grx-820-2x12-gravel-bike-336758.html
The Giant Revolt was where I landed for a truly versatile gravel bike. Still 2x last I checked (will be very angry if it's not), big tyre clearance, great spec, seems light.
The Kinesis above seems like a great deal also 👍
Don't fall for the 1x for adventure crap, I'm seriously considering a 46/30 chainset with a 10-45 cassette at the back, am confident I could use all those gears too 😂
Cross bike with an Ortlieb Quick Rack. How much touring have you done in the past three years? Add an extra wheelset for road.
Enigma have a sale of demo Ti bikes at the moment. Just saying….
Fairlight but potentially the Faran instead of the Secan. Has a 2x option, stupidly versatile with wheels and tires and geometry is designed to feel more road bike when it's unloaded than the Secan.
I have one that iv just put 650b 2.1s on but iv also done 100 mile hilly road rides with 700 and 32mm contis. Absolutely love it albeit the colour is a little bit naff (green).
I'm re-reading the original post and the requirement that stands out is "not too compromised on road".
Gravel is a really wide spectrum, and sure enough a lot of the recommendations so far feel quite off-roady to me. I really like the idea of an offroad tourer type bike and keep trying to justify one to myself, but if you are looking for something that will cover a lot of miles on asphalt and compacted gravel then realistically you need to also look more closely at the "allroad"-type geometries (mentioned by OP).
I would concentrate on how you really, really use the bike and then on geometry and build distinctions before thinking about models. My guess is that something along the lines of a Genesis Croix de Fer would fit the bill. These sorts of all-road / (light) gravel frames aren't that great when going beyond compacted gravel paths, but are hugely better on tarmac than something like a 2025 Vagabond (note this now has Boost rear and is much more off-roady than example in an earlier post) or even a current Camino.
I run a Shand Stooshie, custom built in 2017 with the sort of geometry and parts standards like 142x12 that have changed very little over time. It doesn't really matter what the frame is - the important bit is that the geometry is more like relaxed road or light gravel with a 71.5 head angle, 72.5 seat angle, resultant long wheelbase and road parts standards. It's a very, very usable type of bike but definitely more road-biased than the recommendations so far.
The Tripster is a great bike, developed with input from the likes of Mike Hall and other bike travel veterans. The fork allows you to slacken things up for touring, then sharpen it up for road bike duties. The budget would allow for some nice light road wheels and the Di2 I should think.
I've had a Ti version (ATR) for years now, with early Ultegra/XT Di2 mix and love it.
Fairlight Secan or Faran are within that budget (group set depending) but lead times are long.
Mason ISO or Definition (aluminium frame) would also fit the bill and just be in budget.
I'll take a more detailed look at the Camino - would have to go with more 'traditional bars' - can't get my head round the very flared bars.
When I specced my Camino there were about 4 different bar options (went for the flares out of curiosity and like them!).
I haven't read the entire thread, but I like my Camino Al - built up from frame with GRX and mildly flared bars, Salsa Cow Bells I think. In geometry terms it's at the mountain bikey end of the gravel spectrum, so relatively slack, relatively long, designed to work with a 60 or 70mm stem. I've found it fine on the road, not twitchy/responsive like traditional road/cx geometry, but nice and stable on fast, bumpy downhills. With fast-rolling tyres it's fine.
It's not posh, it's not s****y, it's not expensive - there's the ti version if you have the inclination, a mate who's ridden both wasn't convinced that the Ti, same geo, was that much better fwiw ymmv - but it works nicely on anything from roads through to medium trail stuff. Fwiw, I found the more conventional Sonder drops, Spitfires I think, just felt all kinds of wrong for me, I couldn't adjust them to feel right on the hoods and the drops and I didn't like the stupid wide flare ones either. Cow Bells or similar just work for me.
I love the look of the Fairlight stuff, but it feels stingingly expensive for what it is and it's at the other end of the geometry spectrum from the Camino - arguably the latter's the closest thing you can find to a pound shop SC Stigmata in geometry terms. I rode an On One Dirty Disco for years and the Camino is so much nicer on any sort of off road trail.
the only real advantage of the Camino was no paint finish to think about. So the Secan won.
I'd argue that the 'real advantage' of the Camino is the geometry if you want something that's more capable off road.
As mentioned it's more all road. The CX bike is great on road and off and fast but compromised if I need to carry stuff as there are no mounts and clearance only allows clip on mudguards for use with road wheels/tyres.
Want a fast bike that will do gravel (change of wheels) and also carry luggage. My mate has a Carbon GT Grade that he uses for road and off road adventures. The down side is that he is rapid and waits for no-one.
Two of those Niners off Paul cycles and a light Hunt wheelset to fit one of them and you're still under budget
I'd argue that the 'real advantage' of the Camino is the geometry if you want something that's more capable off road
I've got a rigid 29er and a short travel full suspension bike so the the advantage I was talking about was the advantage to me. And as the op was talking about wanting something at the all road end of the spectrum again the geometry of the Camino didn't seem like an advantage to them.
Fairlight secan again. Superb as a gravel bike, I run 650b, and I have rediscovered road riding on it, using a second wheel set. Just come back from an amazing weeks gravel bikepacking in the Malaga Granada area. The bike was superb over all surfaces.
I'd say a Fairlight Strael is closer to the all road brief.
I've just taken dlivery of a camino ti, SRAM Force XPLR 13 speed with a similar set of requirements.
Also looked long and hard at the Fairlight Secan but it would have been a groupset and components downgrade compared to camino (which I got in the sale) , and also I preferred the durability of the Ti finish (no paint) over the on-paper better geometry of the secan for road bits.
Having had a good long ride ont he camino over the weekend, I don't think the 'more off road' geometry makes it sluggish on the road at all, but I'm saying that as an MTBer rather than a roadie.
I also thought about 2x, however went with the 13 speed XPLR for 1x simplicity (which I love on the MTB).
The jumps between cogs on the 13 speed cassetts aren't generally too great for road riding IMHO, especially between the smaller cogs. Jumps get a bit bigger as gears get lower, but it's all managable and worth it for the simpler/lighter/cleaner setup
I'd be looking at a Cotic Escapde, enough mounts to attach anything you wanted and within budget.
Fairlight secan again. Superb as a gravel bike, I run 650b, and I have rediscovered road riding on it, using a second wheel set. Just come back from an amazing weeks gravel bikepacking in the Malaga Granada area. The bike was superb over all surfaces.
I'd be really interested in the route you did!
Just messaged you el_boufador
@el_boufadour,
A few achievements. Highest ever bivvy at 1750m, longest off-road climb at 1300m, longest off-road descent at 800m.