[Closed] rear wheel side to side play...pro 2?

New bearing time, though you won't damage the hub by keeping riding it as is for a bit.

Many (inc me and bearing guru/conspiracy theorist Kaesae) advocate greasing any new bearings before installation to get more life.

Pro 2 definitely better than shimano tho 😉

First thought would be the bearings need replacing.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm really? My first set of pro 2 bearings lasted about 1.5 years, these were replaced from hope after a cracked hub in May'ish time so It's been around 8 months.....

Surely If the bearings feel smooth It's not them? forgot to add, I serviced freehub and bearings were smooth as silk.about 2 weeks ago? Is there anything else it could be?

+1 on the bearings although 8 months is pretty quick.

Ha, 8 months a short time... I went through a set of Pro3 bearings in one race at Thetford!

Buy some drifts from ukbikestore, and some bearings, and do it yourself - it's worth it in the long run 🙂

http://www.ukbikestore.co.uk/product/38/httpro2/hope-pro-2-hub-tool-kit-complete.html

My Pro2 bearings needed replacing after similar length of time. You might need to do all of them - the one on the outside of the free hub is most likely to need replacing.

Bearings can be worn and still feel perfectly smooth.

In any event, what else could cause the play, bar poor machining tolerances? Which would likely have been evident before now?

You might need to do all of them - the one on the outside of the free hub is most likely to need replacing

Play at the rim is not due to either of the bearings under the freehub.

if there is play in the wheel and assuming the QR is tight then the bearings are the only possibility.

Thanks guys sounds a dead cert its the bearings then? I'm pretty sure I had the wheel bearings replaced when the shell was replaced but now I'm not actually too sure....I had the shell replaced and freehub replaced but i think hope actually left my old bearings on at the time as they said they were fine....so.now the more I think about it they may well still be the original bearings,from new over 2 years ago, and the freehub ones are definitely new from May...cannot remember if I had the bearings replaced when i did the 10 mm conversion....Hmmmmmm....still sounds plausable It's the bearings either way so thanks guys for the help

won't do any damage to continue to ride in the meantime nor will they fail catastrophically

Could be the bearings, can you feel play when you have the wheel of and try to move the axle, also even if the bearings are smooth you should put your finger into the free hub ones and see if there is any side to side movement, if you don't want to use your finger use the axle.

Smooth rotation only really means they're not binding or gritty, it doesn't mean they aren't worn.

Hub bearings do a full rotation so when they ware it's evenly around the circumference of the race/bearings, not only in a small area like on pivot bearings.

Before I forget remember that some greases harden quicker than others, so you could end up with bound bearings if you use the wrong grease, good quality bearing specific grease with water proofing qualities 😉

if there is play in the wheel and assuming the QR is tight then the bearings are the only possibility.

It's a shame they aren't C&C isn't it, TJ? Otherwise as the OP mentions, he could just tighten them up.

They would still either be rough or have play. Once a C&C bearing has worn the hardened surfaces are damaged and it will never be 100%

Too easy, aracer...

They would still either be rough or have play. Once a C&C bearing has worn the hardened surfaces are damaged and it will never be 100%

So how come the OP mentions successfully getting rid of such play on C&C wheels?

Not as picky as I am? You might with a lot of fiddling get it to 99% but once it starts to wear and needs adjustment it will never be 100% again IME

TandemJeremy - Member
They would still either be rough or have play. Once a C&C bearing has worn the hardened surfaces are damaged and it will never be 100%

How so? How come C+C bearings can develop play, be adjusted, and continue to turn with no appreciably increased friction for thousands of miles? You seem to imply once any play occurs the hub is dead. IN fact it is usually perfectly serviceable.

We all know you hate shimano, but this is getting desperate.

No cynic al mr "rough bearings will wear smooth"

Once there is wear the hardened surfaces are damaged and worn. It will never be 100% again. It will either have play or be rough. You may be accepting of this - I am not.

Rough bearings can wear smooth - that's a fact, or can you establish otherwise?

Once there is wear the hardened surfaces are damaged and worn. It will never be 100% again. It will either have play or be rough. You may be accepting of this

Evidence please? My 7,000hrs working as a mechanic have shown me otherwise.

What is 100% and why is it worth having?

I get that you disagree with me, I'm looking for reasoning, justification, or even an answer to my point, do you have any of those?

Or you can just keep repeating yourself - do you have your fingers in your ears?

So in TJ's terms a "100%" hub appears to be one that is brand new or has never developed any play or wear.

If a hub develops play/wear, is adjusted, regularly serviced and then operates exactly as new for thousands of miles (as I have seen many do), it's then according to TJ, not 100%, but even on these terms, is there any meaningful difference?

From my experience once you run cup and cone hubs with play for any amount of time especially on an MTB you will cause damage to the cones or cups / races and the actual ball bearings as well.

After that they don't really run all that well, yes you can replace damaged components and get them to run reasonably well, but for me the cartridge bearing hub is a far better choice if you're willing to pay a bit extra for the performance increase you get.

No cynic al -Your thousands of hours of experience as a mechanic clearly do not count.

You claimed a rough bearing will wear smooth - shows your level of mechanical knowledge and sympathy and the shop you worked for ruined a cup and cone hub for me - handed it back with 1/2 inch of play. So no - your judgement on mechanical matters is no better than mine - you simply cannot play the " I know better than you" card after that

I have given you the reasoning. Once a bearing starts to wear and develops play the hardened surfaces are damaged. That is how the play develops. That is where the wear is. Yes you can adjust it but there will either be a small amount of roughness or of play unless all components are replaced.

A bearing that is 100% has neither play nor roughness. A cup and cone bearing that has worn enough to need to be adjusted will not be 100%. It will not operate exactly as new - it will either be rough or have play.

Kaesae I asked you before, what's the performance increase? Do you have any data for it? Do you have a commercial interest in promoting cartridge bearings?

TJ I have experienced a rough C+C hub wearing smooth. You still have not explained how my trying that experiment and experiencing that impacts upon my abilities as a mechanic. Is it a sin against mechanical sympathy or something?

...and a possible colleague making a mistake affects my calibre as a mechanic? If a member of staff where you works were to make a mistake, how would that affect your professionalism? (clue: IT'S COMPLETELY UNRELATED)

Please.

I thought you might have some evidence to back up your point, but it seems, yet again, it's personal, any idiot can see that the above points do not relate to my abilities whatsoever.

Your "reasoning" is vague to me..."the hardened surfaces are damaged"...do you mean that the bearing surfaces are out of round after wear, and this is how the bearing is not 100%?

My experience does not concur with yours. I've spent way more time servicing hubs than you ever will, and yes, I do not think that can be ignored.

cynic-al - Member

TJ I have experienced a rough C+C hub wearing smooth.

Completely impossible. Hardened steel surfaces will not wear smooth. Once a bearing surface is damaged it will be rough not smooth.

Its not personal and your only reaction is to say " I know better than you" whilst talking utter bull

What did I see then?

No response to my other points? As usual?

I am asking for evidence. You appear to have none. No relevant experience? Well that is less than mine, yes.

What other points? Where is [i]your[/i] evidence?

Simply asserting you know better than me cos you once worked in a bike shop is laughable in the face of your insistence that a rough bearing will wear smooth. I have plenty of experience and enough to know that is simply bullshine.

this is just batting backwards and forwards an if yo want he last word have it.

its not personal - I am just calling you on the bull you spout

Urr the word your looking for kaesae is longevity not performance - a good quality well adjusted c&c will out perform a cartridge hub

What other points? Where is your evidence?

Evidence - I saw it with my own eyes, and have no reason to make it up. you've produced nothing, not even the most basic of explanations.
.
Other points-see my post 4 posts up - plenty for you to answer, but it's not uncommon for You to leave a thread leaving questions unanswered.

Oh and tj you are assuming that all play has come in the form of wear - sometimes the hub cones just come loose or havnt been nipped up fully

Trailrat - which is why I said worn - sure if the cones have come loose you can reset it.

TJ you previously said "play".

Looks like I have the last word then? Simply because you have no answers.

They would still either be rough or have play. Once a C&C bearing has [b]worn[/b] the hardened surfaces are damaged and it will never be 100%

I replaced bearings in a pro 2 body and shell once and the bearings came out of the body very easily. The new ones went in with my thumb and i continued to build it to see how it felt in the frame once tightened. The play was still there with all bearings replaced so the body was at fault.

In an MTB wheel war of atrition who would win,C&C or cartridge bearings and in an STW war of words cynical-al or TJ?
There's only one way to find out ........

Oh, TJ, well edited, I missed that.

No answers for the other points then.

I am already warned off for obsessive arguing. I would argue ( 🙂 ) this thread has already gone beyond that point. There are no other points to answer.

🙄

Thanks guys sounds a dead cert its the bearings then?

No,its not a dead cert. You have found play so (putting all this rough/worn bearing pish aside and getting to the point of the OP)lets find out if its the bearings or the possibility of a dodgy bored out body.

First of all you need to get the body off and find out if the bearings (both 61802's) are a poor fit in the body (the 61902 in the other end of the body has never been a problem that i have seen) If the old ones come out easily,pop a new bearing in on its own and see if you can remove it easily. The one i had was so loose you could pretty much chap the bearings out without pulling them out.If this is the case,i would call Hope and let them know that they are a poor fit to see what they can come up with.

If this is the problem then once it gets sorted,you can then pop the new body on with new bearings and see how it feels tightened in the dropouts.

If it were my own hub I personally wouldn't remove the shell bearings if the above work solved the problem.

Save yourself around £12 quid and extra work if they are doing their job perfectly at only 8 months old.

I hope the fellow with the dodgy hub manages to find the answers to his problem amidst the argument over a part of a hub that might not even be faulty at all. 🙄

We weren't even arguing about the same type of hub 😛

Nearly fainted there.I thought I picked up on the wrong type of hub lol

I'm fed up of the cup and cone Vs cartridge debate now. I agree with TJ about cynic-al theory of bearings wearing themselves smooth! I would not post up banging that theory and risk the ranting which will come from cynic-al. But come on this is an absurd theory if ever there was one. In engineering terms it defys all logic!

Cup and cone bearings are generally shite. Im my experience. Sure they roll better and in theory work better. But in the real world I have found them nothing but a pain in the arse

I don't care if you have worked in a bike shop too. I have often been given lame advice and had bad mechanical aptitude from various bike shops. You trying to say bearings will wear smooth and arguing the fact that you work in a bike shop as the sole argument to anyone who wants to challenge that is very lame!

Thing is Seth, I've seen what I describe with my own eyes, that does not depend on my professional experience (other than knowing how to service a hub) and I've not claimed it to be so.

How can you challenge what I have seen with merely an opinion? How does it defy all logic?

If anyone could even explain how it couldn't have worked (by which I mean something more than "the bearing surface is damaged") I'd gladly listen, but no one appears to have the brains to come up with a rationale, and flaming is easier.