[Closed] RANT: Shut means shut!!!

Which snow studded tyres thread maybe?? 😉

*cough* I know it's llandegglllellla that you're talking about, but you might wanna mention its name next time?

Just a thought....

what if you don't expect to need rescuing or care if you aren't ?

Then you're trespassing anyway.

But what if the common sense is nonsense. just because you are not happy to go into the forest, it doesnt mean that others arent happy to do so and perfectly capable of getting themselves out of any shit they may find themselves in. Scottish centres all have more snow that any centre in Wales and none of them are shut...

FC land is different because its public.

Not all of the centres are on FC owned land though...

rant fail !!

Then its up to the discretion of the land owners.

As I keep explaining to the wife, all they can do is ask you to leave by the shortest route available. Which is fair enough.

No it isn't.

We have a right of responsible access up here. Land ownership doesn't come into it.

Fair enough.

News flash.
Wales closed because of minor weather change.
Do not enter.you will freeze to death.

So you go up to LLandegla and then fall off,youre on your own,and cant move,you phone an ambulance,if you can get a signal,its difficult in some parts,the Ambulance service send an Ambulance there.
They cant get up the hill,no 4 wheel drive with snow chains in North Wales,so youre now getting colder,its going dark,meanwhile the ambulance crew may be loking for you,they have little local knowledge of the forest,all the squirrels have gone into hibernation so they cant ask them,(youre getting colder and colder),the staff of Llandegla are not there either,watching mtb videos at home.

The crew make their way slowly up the hill,and while theyre on their way up, theyre thinking how are we going to transport the guy down,cant get the helicopter as they cant park it,(and youre getting colder),eventually they find you,tell you youre a stupid prat,youve not only endangered your life,and the crews lives, youve tied up a lot of resourses and stopped an ambulance getting to a heart attack victim.(if only they could say what they think)
Then becomes the fun of them getting you down the hill.Youre now possibly suffering hypothermia, and so are the ambulance crew.

HAPPY NOW.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

someone didnt get to ride today ......

Why would they need to park a helicopter? Do they not have winches on them in Wales? Must not have an MRT either...

sounds like 95% of the rides i go on in the cairngorms project1 its all about minimising risk and being self sufficent and as safe as prepared as you can ....

i see people all the time going round trail centers with huge bags on - nothing of actual use in them - just body armour ......

As I understand it, Llandegla is owned / managed by Tilhill. Someone rides the trails when it is officially closed and the worst happens. No doubt some ambulance chasing scum will have a field day. Trails closed.

FFS guys, if One Planet say it's closed then respect their decision and ride somewhere else. Let's face it, they won't take the decision to close lightly; no riders=no revenue.

Genesis, hopefully see you when the car park thaws.

[i]i see people all the time going round trail centers with huge bags on - nothing of actual use in them - just body armour ...... [/i]

Controversial and amusing - well done! 🙂

calm down,calm down.
[img] [/img]
ian

Steep hill on the approach road to the car park and to get out,then the car park is built on a few different levels,also the trees are closely planted so limited space to winch unless they carry the injured rider to a clearing or trail road.

There are people out there that go out in tracies and a soft top,even without gloves,or spare tubes,and theyre the ones who will have an accident,and claim for injuries.

22 Squadron are usually busy lifting morons in jeans and t-shirts off Snowdon and our local MRT team are still over half hour drive away that's before they even get the shout.

mind you there is a bridleway through the middle, so however closed it maybe it is still open.

Absolutely.

How can you close a trail centre - especially one with a bridleway in it?

Just makes no sense at all to me.

I used to ridfe in Llandegla forrest and the moors above Llangollen and aslo the berwyn mountains years with kit no where near as good as whats avaialble today and in worse conditions.

what has changed though MTB is now fashionable and comes witha number of people who do not have a clue what to do if they came to difficulties. I guess they must take that into consideration.

gone are the days when us mtbers were hardcore folk going out in all weathers and in pink and in dayglo lycra!!

So if you go out and hurt yourself you might not be rescued easily. Welcome to mountain biking. Can't be any different from going through Rannoch Moor, for example, miles away from any road?

Then you're trespassing anyway.

ooooh, spank me :o)

So is it closed because of the risk of riders having an accident?

Or is it closed because the car park is icy and people may drive into each other?

Look at it like this.

Tilhill own the place, they say it's shut for what ever reason they want, therefore it's shut.

Same reason why the car-parks are shut in delamere - too icey.

If for example the police close a road 'cos it's too dangerous do you still drive up it as it's your right to use a public highway, didn't think so.

Considering the amount of 'degla haters on here there's a fair few people who don't want to get on with the owners by riding it whenever they want.

I'd imagine some of the people still insisting on riding the place are some of the people who park at the bottom of the access road and ride up so they don't have to pay the £3.50 parking price 😆

ally harp - you make sense

a closed sign will deter your trackie wearing soft top wearing lot ....

real mtbers will look at it and think - yes your carpark is shut good for you ... show me the trails ...

As already mentioned there's a bridleway right through it, so you can put up whatever signs you want - if I think it's OK to ride through it, I'll do so & make my own decision what precautions to take

thanks for caring though

Also creates problems for our neighbours with cars parked all over the place, just because it ends in a dirt road by the orange gates it doesn't mean no one lives down there!

So you go up to LLandegla and then fall off,youre on your own,and cant move,you phone an ambulance,if you can get a signal,its difficult in some parts,the Ambulance service send an Ambulance there.

Hmmm, sounds like MTB as it used to be, with out all the signs to show the kids which way to fall off...

Mountain biking can be dangerous. For the most part, I'd guess that's why we all do it. Common sense dictates that in the middle of winter it might be a little snowy / icy. We can all work that out*, and prepare accordingly, or has a law been passed that prevents any access to the outdoors when it's a bit nippy?

*Maybe those that can't should do some reading up on Darwinian theory before they snuff out their own line from the gene pool

If for example the police close a road 'cos it's too dangerous do you still drive up it as it's your right to use a public highway, didn't think so.

but i might still walk or ride said road, it is using common sense and using the appropriate means of transport, i know that is a strange concept and Lawyers and HSE seem to ignore it.

Tilhil can close all they want but the Bridleway is, unless they apply for a diversion type of notice, still open and people will ride the tracks.

Also creates problems for our neighbours with cars parked all over the place, just because it ends in a dirt road by the orange gates it doesn't mean no one lives down there!

Don't close the car park then - simples 🙂

of course the owner of the land has a duty of care and by having trails laid out is inviting you to use them, hence the liability - has no way of knowing if you are any good at knowing what your ability is in poor conditions so centres get shut to avoid a liability

- i would hope that those that ignore the shut signs are competent and if they are not at least they will be developing their skill at assessing their competence, might be considerate to pick another location but my experience at trail centres generally is that consideration is left on the motorway somewhere
as to ambulances and mrt - i imagine pretty small beer compared to dealing with those of a mall mentality with lots of call outs for zero common sense

zokes you're right. Its the Darwin awards candidates that worry me the most. For the main seasoned mtbers have an apprecitaion of the consequences of being out in the winter, but almost like the airport security thread. How would you discriminate?

Singlespeeders only?

antigee - Member
of course the owner of the land has a duty of care and by having trails laid out is inviting you to use them, hence the liability - has no way of knowing if you are any good at knowing what your ability is in poor conditions so centres get shut to avoid a liability

So using your reasoning, they should shut the trails in the hottest part of the summer just in case people venture on to them without adequate water and then become dehydrated?

all the squirrels have gone into hibernation so they cant ask them

Maybe they could ask the squirrels cos squirrels don't hibernate.

Good ol' squirrels, you can always rely on them.

people still go hillwalking at this time of year..... if your not willing to accept the danger's dont go. Simples.

How would you discriminate?

trackie wearing soft top wearing lot

easy

So using your reasoning, they should shut the trails in the hottest part of the summer just in case people venture on to them without adequate water and then become dehydrated?

expect to see a sign near you soon 😉

so centres get shut to avoid a liability

(cf the "supermarkets not gritting their car parks" argument)

Not as daft a suggestion as you'd think, have to treat a few casualties during the summer suffering the effects of heat and dehydration!

If I wait for it to reopen then crash on an icy bit what's to stop me complaining that because it was open it should have been safe?

nothing

Just announce it's shut,turn a blind eye.You can't do anymore unless you put up a 10' perimeter fence.Not sure what a forum rant will achieve.
Are you not shut on a monday ? Do you have a rant about people riding over from the Ponderosa on a monday ?

Could never officially do that 😉 plus you weren't the one getting his ears bent by one of the neigbours this morning!

and I've had some rather nice wine with my dinner 🙂

Why not try the alternative centre,turn off the main road and past the water works as if youre going to LLandegla,
then go past the main entrance,to the end of this road,turn right,follow road down hill,then turn left,at junction,follow road for a few miles and then turn left,after the lake on right hand side,then take next right and right again.

Enjoy the ride.

"Scottish centres all have more snow that any centre in Wales and none of them are shut..."

Scottish people have enough sense not to try and ride things when they're under snow and ice, mostly. But we're talking about Wales here 😉

Nah,only appeal to me is the cafe and the bike wash.The trails are good,but not my cup of tea.Much prefer the natural stuff further out.
So i tend to park and give you my money and bugger off away from the trails.
So no facilities = no show from me 🙂

They probably cant be arsed to grit the road leading up to the trail centre (Llandegla) or grit the carpark either, if the truth be known...it all has to be done by hand (well with shovels)! 🙄

a - that's the council's responsibility and
b - that's Tillhill's shout, salt apparently dissolves the limestone (no I don't know, I'm just a minion its what I've been told).

EDIT - because I didn't read the last post, sorry

Mrmo the HSE does acknowledge common sense suggest you go to their website and read some of the H&S Myths.

You really should know better Mr J-E.Drink more wine...and hope they all die....Soon.

Sorry, *burp*

Not stw members of course........

Genesis,Salt disolves sandstone,

Best to duck when you see those flying welsh pigs then,theyre black and only fly at night.

of course not, scummers however.....

Blah blah blah (insert offensive term) blah blah blah (derogatory insiders joke) blah blah blah (misanthropic generalisation) blah blah blah.Merry Chrapmas.You get the drift youth....

Mrmo the HSE does acknowledge common sense suggest you go to their website and read some of the H&S Myths.

I know the HSE do give some slack, but there seems to be a belief that they don't and everything is overkill. If in doubt ban it.

Just wondering
Why would anyone want to ride on a sheet of ice anyway. Snow yes great fun and doesnt hurt when you fall on it but ice that bloody hurts and is impossible to corner on. I do seem to remember the marin being shut last winter people ignoring the sighns and hearing several stories of broken hips and arms. The trails at llandegla are far better when they are dry and dusty in the summer go ride somewhere else and just wait
p.s Had a great day at coed y Brenin today no snow or ice only sketchy bit was the drive home.

project - Member
So you go up to LLandegla and then fall off,youre on your own,and cant move,you phone an ambulance,if you can get a signal,its difficult in some parts,the Ambulance service send an Ambulance there.
They cant get up the hill,no 4 wheel drive with snow chains in North Wales,so youre now getting colder,its going dark,meanwhile the ambulance crew may be loking for you,they have little local knowledge of the forest,all the squirrels have gone into hibernation so they cant ask them,(youre getting colder and colder),the staff of Llandegla are not there either,watching mtb videos at home.

The crew make their way slowly up the hill,and while theyre on their way up, theyre thinking how are we going to transport the guy down,cant get the helicopter as they cant park it,(and youre getting colder),eventually they find you,tell you youre a stupid prat,youve not only endangered your life,and the crews lives, youve tied up a lot of resourses and stopped an ambulance getting to a heart attack victim.(if only they could say what they think)
Then becomes the fun of them getting you down the hill.Youre now possibly suffering hypothermia, and so are the ambulance crew.

HAPPY NOW.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

So your at home eating all the food, its too snowy or icy to go out biking, before you know it you've spent a week at home constantly eating and getting fat. You read obesity adverts and watch the usual fat people getting tummy tuck shows but you ignore those warnings and continue eating. Before you know it, eating has become obsessive and you give up biking. Your getting fatter and fatter and still ignoring warnings that eating unhealthily is bad for you until 1 day you have a heart attack. PAramedics rush to your aid knowing that this is your own fault and ignored all the warnings.

Meanwhile, over in a local trailcentre, the conditions are dry and perfect and a talented mountain biker ( that may be you) is riding the trails like a god yet still cautiously. Out of no where a squirrel awakens from 'hibernation', falls on to this bikers head, causing him to crash and seriously hurt themselves. A quick phone call to 999 through a fully signalled phone line sends out the local ambulance only to be told that the closest 1 available has just been dispatched to a person having a 'heart attack'and the biker dies

If only he continued biking

Are you HAPPY NOW !!!!!!!!1

To be honest if the roads are that icy anyway along with the trails you wont get me driving for a couple of hours to fall off on slick ice and snap a bone-at my age it takes too long to heal. Now if I was a local rider riding some of the local bridleways and they werent too slippy (bet the boardwalk is interesting with ice on the grip tape coming over from the far end of the masts descent) then different. Its what you are used to an comfortable with. Ice on the roads and bikes for me dont mix after examining it close up on more than one occasion has turned me into a cautios Jessie.

just ride the natural stuff, keep away from the kitty litter..

For the main seasoned mtbers have an apprecitaion of the consequences of being out in the winter,

Northwind - Member
"Scottish centres all have more snow that any centre in Wales and none of them are shut..."

Scottish people have enough sense not to try and ride things when they're under snow and ice, mostly. But we're talking about Wales here

Scottish people have enough sense not to try and ride things when they're under snow and ice, mostly.

I would wager that Scottish people are just better at it or do it more often so are prepared to buy the required kit. I'm rapidly catching up on last winter's 17 snowy rides. -6 and blizzarding now. No thaw forecast until I go to Austria on 9th Jan. You've got to do something to keep fit! My pals are all supposed to be doing Laggan tomorrow. I'm busy unfortunately but I'm also glad because over a foot of snow is too much IMHO.

Depressing that people are now telling us that we're not capable of making decisions about our own safety. Or that we shouldn't do things because there's no-one there to save us. All too often things are "shut" when all that's needed is common sense and they can remain open. Landowner obviously has the final say, but at the end of the day providing people know the risks and don't block places with parking then it's their own doing. I've spent most of my youth riding footpaths and trails, alone, at night. By most people's "common sense" those would be no-no's. I'm glad I'm not most people, and I'm glad there are others like me out there.

Scottish people have enough sense not to try and ride things when they're under snow and ice, mostly.

What utter tripe, I see nearly as many people on the trails in the snow/ice/blizzards as I do on normal rainy days up here. Fortunately most scottish people realise that "bad" weather doesn't mean the world comes to a halt, and usually means there's more fun to be had than in "good" weather.

this is funny. genesis is right but i think what he should have said was. llandegla is SHUT, deal with it, go and buy a map and do some exploring while it's SHUT and learn some new routes. you know old skool stylee!
and i seem to think it's the coast guard helicopters that have the winches, last time i was at llandegla it was pretty wet but not coastal!

you lot really are a load of sanctimonius old gits, and may I say its getting worse by the year.

To summarize, llandegla, as managed by Tilhill, is shut. the car park, shut. The trials, shut.
The bridleway through the middle is open.

I rode llandegla in the ice last year, wasn't the best ride ever.

Some of you seem to think that riding in extreme weather conditions makes you better bikers. I beg to differ.

drunken rant apologies.....

its basically like the last 2 posters say 😳

I'd like to put this in context (if that's the right word)with the fall in the car park post a little while ago.
The conclusion of that, was the owners were bang to rights. So I assume it would be the trail owners fault if there was an accident going by the legal bods on here replies to the car park incident 😐
And that's exactly why the Duke of Bedford wont officialy open any trails in Woburn

I do not see how the landowners could be liable for anything.

Nor do I TJ. Though I think problems arrise if the landowners have for example sanctioned trails or waymarked routes, and therefore beckoning people onto those trails. It only takes a muppet to fall and look for blame.
Genesis's common sense thing I understand

Radogir Nice thoughts.

I do not see how the landowners could be liable for anything

not a legal bod but in the 80's did a lot of work on behalf of the BMC British (but excludes Scotland) Mountaineering Council with HSE on guidance for climbing wall management - think the situation is similar to trail centres that is natural crag turn up and climb is of your own volition ditto a bridleway across a moor but signing a route implies responsibility - to be honest i've found it surprising that trail centres don't ask riders to sign a disclaimer and or claim a basic level of competence - which I guess is a good thing

LLANDGELA shut till after the new year,

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/8436375.stm