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What's best to completely remove Putoline from a chain? Asking for a friend.
white spirit or any other powerful organic solvent will do. White spirit works fine tho
Ta
What’s best to completely remove Putoline from a chain?
It's wax, surely boiling water will do this?
I've an old glass jar of waste organic solvents for that job (petrol, parafin, etc).
Useful if the chain is still wet from a ride/wash (deccant the petrol off the mud/water layer occasionaly).
It’s wax, surely boiling water will do this?
No, it will melt it into sticky stuff that as a hydrocarbon is highly immiscible with water and will still adhere tightly to the surfaces of the chain - especially the internal surfaces where it is supposed to lubricate.
To see this in action just try washing out an "empty" bottle of cooking oil with hot water - no matter how much you swish the water around inside it still remains oily. To remove it you need an organic solvent such as the suggestions previously, or a detergent.
Yeah that's paraffin wax, it's hard, guessing there's a narrow range of hydrocarbon weights in it. I bet it won't be that nice and clean with Putoline, but if you try it you should video it 🙂
I reckon that a bulk lump of wax floating to the top of hot water is not a good model
of what happens to a thin layer Putoline on a chain, especially inside the moving surfaces where it moves in by capillary tension and will be held there by the same forces, whether liquid or not.
Anyway theory is one thing, but nothing beats experiment - so I dunked a pair of pliers in Putoline for a while, made sure the jaws were well coated and then closed, took them out and let them cool. I then put them in a pan of water at a rolling boil for about 7 minutes.
Pretty quickly the Putoline melted from the outside and rose to the surface, and was much more liquid than I'd expected. But after about 7 minutes it remained on the internal faces of the jaws. Also the metal external surfaces got recoated with a thin layer of Putoline as they were taken out of the water, from the melted wax floating on the water.
So for a chain in boiling water I think you would get a lot of Putoline off it but still leave the exposed surfaces a bit "sticky/waxy" as you removed it, but the interior bearing surfaces where the Putoline does its job would be largely unaffected, with the Putoline retained by the strong capillary action and resistance to mixing with water.
I treated my gravel bike chain yesterday. Fryer was set to 130. Inner chain had a lot more putoline left which is difficult to remove once it cools. Looks messy on the bike but worked fine. Chain nice and quiet even when riding through thick glup. Hosed it down when I got back and cassette still looks clean but definitely putoline on the teeth of cassette and front chain rings. As long as it all works I won't get upset over it 🙂
Just need to figure out how to leave enough on the chain next time but clean it up more.
Hmm... not getting much distance between applications at the moment, seems I'm topping up every 150km ☹
Just trying to balance faff of weekly Fenwick's applications vs. fortnightly Putoline application, also trying to figure out if I really need to clean Putoline out if chain before going back to Fenwick's Stealth, I guess any leftover Putoline could stop the Fenwick's getting right in where it's needed?
What are the symptoms that make you want to reapply @13thfloormonk? I get at least 400km and even then I only redo because there is very little left on the links - the chain and shifting are still spot on at that point and I wash the bike after every ride.
I've just done 70km with a newly waxed chain n and it looks like it did when it went on. I certainly wouldn't be expecting to do it again after another 70km.
How are you applying it? DFF?
I get 500+ km on road up to 1500 km!
have you tried checking it by twisting it? You can tell when the wax has gone or if you run a finger along the chain do you get two lines of wax?
What are the symptoms that make you want to reapply @13thfloormonk?
Noise mainly.
Have spent the winter on Putoline (on a different chain) but they were mostly shorter rides. Either way, felt like I got more out of each application before noise.
I've been applying in a DFF. I heat up to 180 then gradually let it cool before switching DFF off and letting a skin form on wax before removing chain. This way a minimum of wax runs off links but recently the amount of wax building up on chainring and jockey wheels has REALLY been upsetting my OCD, despite a wipe fown with kitchen towel once chain has cooled.
Deep down I feel I should stick with it, but almost prefer the predictability of a dribble on lube, even if I have to apply every ride!
I wonder if you are leaving it in too long (????) also 180 is quite hot. I did my replacement chain today and I set the DFF to 110 and left it for 20 mins. I popped the chain in the basket and dunked it in for about 10 mins then I lifted the basket out, turned the chain over and left it for another 5 till there were no bubbles coming up any more. Then I hung it up and gently wiped from top to bottom just pinching the outer links in the rag, and left to cool.
When I put a freshly waxed chain on there is a bit of wax deposited on the jockey wheels/chainring during the first few rides but I wipe it off after about three rides and then it doesn't really get much worse. In fact it seems to get cleaner, someone even asked if I had just cleaned my drivetrain the other day - I hadn't...
My first application was done with just a burner under the tin and it worked well, lasted ages. I’ve since bought a fryer and it’s not lasting. Orange rust marks appearing after only a couple of weeks. Nothing like the original application. Will try some of the methods mentioned above
First application is in summer, later ones in autumn and winter by any chance?
I don't know what conditions you are riding in, but I'm happy to get 25-30 sloppy FoD miles out of a Putolined chain. No normal lube has ever lasted me a whole ride before. It would probably do more, but if the bike's getting cleaned it's hardly a faff to rinse it under the hot tap to get the mud off and plonk on top of the cold wax before I turn the fryer on. As the fryer warms up the chain dries and it slowly sinks into the wax where I leave it on 140ish for 15-20 minutes before lifting the basket and shaking off as much surface wax as possible before hanging it up to cool and wiping the side plates.
This chain has done 1880ish miles so far.
Just trying to balance faff of weekly Fenwick’s applications vs. fortnightly Putoline application
For me, the benefit is not having to clean the grit out of the chain before reapplying wet lube. And not spending 3/4 of a ride with grit in my chain in the first place.
Just checked, my first application last a year of commuting! Granted it’s a short commute, but January to January. I’ve had to redo it twice already this year and it’s heading for a third application
For me, the Putoline isn't a holy a holy grail as I thought. Can currently get 2 rides out of a chain before it needs re-doing. Can tell as the rollers in the chain rattle - if there was wax in there, it wouldn't. There's still wax on the outside of the plates, though.
However, it lasts longer than wet lube and isn't as minging on the chainring and jockeys.
This is on MTB, used GX Eagle chain, Argos DFF, and tried it variously at 190degC with hang until cool and wipe, 190degC with cool in basket and wipe, and 120-140degC with hang to cool and wipe.
I've given up on it, it feels lovely when fresh but the required cleaning after wet, muddy rides results in rust patches early on and dry sounding chains not long after. I think if it was on a
bike that rarely got cleaned it would be a lot better. Bugger to strip off.
MTB on the Weldtite TF2 which is fine applied every ride although prob too thin for longer wet rides. Roadie back on Smoove, will see if I prefer a bit more regular chain maintenance. Generally I'm happy in the garage though so suspect I will.
the required cleaning
What required cleaning?
For those people saying it only lasts two rides in bad conditions - your wet lube probably only lasts a few minutes, but you press on with the rest of the ride as you have no choice. This is the case for me in bad conditions. For me this is probably going to mean much greater chain life.
I can't tell you exactly how long because as long as I've been using it from new I've not needed to buy a new chain.
I'm not really feeling the love for Putoline. Agree it feels great for the ride or two, then it's into the realms of nursing a rusting chain long enough until I can be bothered to fire up the heater again. It has covered my cassette and no doubt jockey wheels in a black greasy coating and just makes a bit of a mess. I can see the value for road bikes, especially touring (because that's most of my road biking) in that it would probably last well through a few hundred miles. Think I'll be stripping it off my MTB chains next time and going back to good old lube.
For those people saying it only lasts two rides in bad conditions – your wet lube probably only lasts a few minutes
This is what binned me off Plutoline TBH, I can get the same performance from Juice Lubes Viking that I could from Plutoline, plus no need to break the chain and no faffing on with a DFF and a tin of smelly wax. More expensive fo'shure (but not so much I really notice) but no drop in performance for my needs (before tjagain rattles his cage)
then it’s into the realms of nursing a rusting chain long enough until I can be bothered to fire up the heater again.
Getting the chain lubricated internally seems to be the slightly hit-and-miss part, but can't tell if you're suggesting that's a problem for you. I've found the solution to surface rust is a wipe with a WD40-soaked rag after a wet ride. And having two chains on the go means you can wax at your leisure and always have one ready to go on when needed.
I love it on the commuter. Fit and forget with hundreds of miles between top-ups. It's also waaaay cleaner so I don't get that build up of commuter sludge all over cassette/ mech/ wheels.
On the MTB I'm undecided. Like many others I'm finding I have to re-apply every 2-3 rides which is more faff than I can be arsed with. Hopefully come the summer it'll last longer again.
I dobbed a bit of finish line on mine the last ride or two, because I didn't have time to re-fry. Lasts a lot longer than finish line on a clean chain.
I dobbed a bit of finish line on mine the last ride or two, because I didn’t have time to re-fry. Lasts a lot longer than finish line on a clean chain.
What Finish Line did you use? Dry?
Am looking for something to take on multi-day trips in case chain needs a top up.
What Finish Line did you use? Dry?
Am looking for something to take on multi-day trips in case chain needs a top up.
I've just taken biodegradeable chainsaw oil, which is pretty similar to the good old finish line green wet lube but comes in 1l bottles for a fiver (and works on the chainsaw too obviously).
It turns the remaining putoline into a greasy, waxy, but incredibly tenacious mess. Which if nothing else, proves there was still wax in the chain and I didn't need to worry.
I tended to use it more on the commuter if I noticed it going rusty in the middle of a week before I could be bothered to wax it.
I’ve just taken biodegradeable chainsaw oil, which is pretty similar to the good old finish line green wet lube but comes in 1l bottles for a fiver (and works on the chainsaw too obviously).
Yeah, I've had to use 3-in-1 in the past, it works perfectly well but was just hoping for something that could top up the Putoline whilst retaining the benefits of it being dry. I rode with 3-in-1 the other day (albeit on a very wet, quite sandy/gritty ride) and the drivetrain was making a hellish noise, reminded me of the benefits of wax vs. wet lubes.
I reckon you are all heating it up too much and boiling off the more volatile contents hence the degradation in performance on subsequent applications.
Cleaning it off? just fill half a glass jar with white spirit and put the chain in to soak while the putoline warms up and shake it around, comes out very clean.
I reckon you are all heating it up too much and boiling off the more volatile contents hence the degradation in performance on subsequent applications.
Naaa, my original putoline is now 12 years old, I swapped to a new tin as I was convinced it had actually gone soft either due to thermal cracking or contamination with other lubes (I don't wash the chain either when new* or after using other lubes).
And for most of that 12 years I turned the fryer up till it smoked.
It's exactly the same. I guess 12 years ago I was boiling it on a trangia in the freezing cold garden of a shared house. Now I've gone middle aged and soft and do it in a garage.
*I actually think this is a bad idea as new chains always seem to stay greasy as the factory grease stops the wax getting in. But I'm lazy and just wax and and then ride till it's worn/washed away.
What Finish Line did you use? Dry?
I used wet, but I think the best one for this is Shimano wet lube. It's pretty thin and seems to invisibly refresh the Putoline without getting it any dirtier.
Cleaning it off?
I don't even bother. I reckon adding traces of white spirit from a de-greased chain is going to do more to alter the oil composition than heating it up too much.
Dumb question, but... how do I know when I need to refry my chain?
Dumb question, but… how do I know when I need to refry my chain?
I usually do it (or switch chains) when it sounds dry and you start to get that drivechain whirring noise on road sections.
But then I've got 4 bikes with it and 8 chains between them (3 MTB, 2 gravel, 2 road and 1 SSCX/commuter) so do more than one at a time and some probably don't actually get anywhere near dry.
Either that or just before a big ride/trip/anticipated nice weather and there's nothing on tv and no other bike maintenance to do.
I’m on about 500km since my last application on the road bike and same distance on my CX bike. Granted conditions have been mostly dry but there’s absolutely no sign of either of them needing another dunk.
The MTB on the other hand tends to need re dunking much more often even in the same dry conditions. Maybe 150km max but probably closer to every 100km. Every few rides really.
I twist the chain - you can tell from that when the goo is gone from the rollers. a well lubed chain its smooth and no obvious hard stop when you twist it - by the time it feels gritty and loose you need to redo it
Right. I've had this magic Putoline on about a week now and my conclusion is....It's shit.
My chain is rusty and graunchy after being in the shed all week.
How is it not rubbish exactly? 😕
Dude, should have gone with Speedwax, Putoline is so 2020
😂
In all seriousness though, is this normal?
Fairly new chain, well degreased with a brush and then in an ultrasonic cleaner, then putolined.
First ride on it last Saturday which was pretty wet to be fair.
Hosed down after at home then got it out today and it's rusty. 😐
This has never happened with regular chain lube so why have I just spent best part of £30 on this? It's rubbish.
My chain is rusty and graunchy after being in the shed all week.
New shed?
Oh wait, that shed... Probably not that then 😉
How is it not rubbish exactly?
Because when we use it, it stays smooth and well lubed for ages. You must be doing something different to me. I use it specifically because it doesn't get graunchy, lasts ages and deals with mud a thousand times better.
Hosed down after at home then got it out today and it’s rusty.
After a wet ride there is a bit of light surface rust sometimes, but I don't consider this an issue - it's not actually corroding the chain. I think it happens where the chain sits on the cassette. A wipe down with WD40 or silicone on a rag prevents it.
I was brief irritated by the surface rust thing, but a winter of running a Putoline chain on CX bike taught me it really is good, and wiping the chain down with GT85 on a rag after a wet ride/hosing is a small price to pay for the performance and durability otherwise.
Could only suggest you had maybe tsken chain out while still too hot? I turn frier off and try to take chain out just before a skin forms on wax, means chain will retain most wax between rollers.