[i]£450 for a service!!!!! [/i]
😯
You could buy a car for that.
Well if yo want to waste your money changing perfectly good seals then do so
Bike forks is the only application of this sort where I have seen this recommended. You do not with motorcycle forks, you cannot with shimano brakes as no seals are available
I really fail to see why you would want to replace a perfectly good seal.
Hang-on.
For £450, couldn't the OP do a course or summ-at ?.
or...
Go on holiday ?.
Just as an extreme example, I had someone bring me in his Scorpion fs (one of [url= http://www.kinetics-online.co.uk/html/scorpion_fs.shtml ]these[/url] for you non-recumbent people) - he said he hit something on the pavement, and a small bolt had broken.
It had. It was the rear wishbone securing bolt. The reason it had broken was that the wishbone had been shoved hard rearwards. The wishbone doesn't like doing that, so it had also bent the anti-roll bar and, more importantly, knackered the main frame at the LH headset.
That needed a new mainframe, plus a full stripdown and rebuild. Ended up costing about £1000. For something that came in for a snapped bolt.
BenCopper.
Sounds more like accident repair rather than a routine service.
The usual it costs £XX for XXXX
No it costs £xx from merlin. Unless he went to merlin to get serviced its a pointless comparison.
The OP chose to pay someone to do it all for him. Its always cheaper to do it yourself and search out for the best buy something you won't get at one place.
Only an itemised bill can say if this was a rip off or not. (the receipt needs to be compared to other LBS prices not just Best Online Price)
TJ as an individual doing my own fork i do not change the seals
as a mechanic in a shop following a service schedule i did - reason being - if i didnt and in 1 hours time the fork fails - guess whos picking up the bill ?
you cannot assertain from looking at the seal its life span from that moment onwards.
another thing to bear in mind is that with the best will in the world , the best teachers in the world and the best instructional videos in the world - some people just cannot wield a spanner.
trail_rat - MemberTJ as an individual doing my own fork i do not change the seals
as a mechanic in a shop following a service schedule i did - reason being - if i didnt and in 1 hours time the fork fails - guess whos picking up the bill ?
Fair enough - if its in the schedule then yo do it when acting professionally and disturbing seals can make them fail
Sounds more like accident repair rather than a routine service.
True - it was an extreme example of something that was just "one little thing" that was far from the case. A maintenance example would be the numerous Bromptons which come in for one broken spoke, and under examination they need a full wheel rebuild (knackered rim), new rear pivot bushings, new transmission, new brake blocks and cables. Often people ride bikes until they stop working completely - by then they need a lot more fixed than that one straw that broke the camel's back.
as a mechanic in a shop following a service schedule i did - reason being - if i didnt and in 1 hours time the fork fails - guess whos picking up the bill ?
Exactly. If it's your own equipment, no problem if it needs the work redoing again a month down the line because a small consumable part goes, if some has paid, they're not going to accept that.
If working on other peoples stuff, you do all you can to ensure the work is done thoroughly and correctly first go. You do all you can to reduce the risk of error.
Yup, it's the same reason I patch my own inner tubes, but always put a new tube in for customers.
[i]Often people ride bikes until they stop working completely - by then they need a lot more fixed than that one straw that broke the camel's back. [/i]
That is very true and a good example of just how well designed the bike is that it can be made to keep going when its so far from being in perfect condition.
I carry out certain tasks on my car and nearly all work on my bikes.
WRT bikes, I do this as I can then satisfy my own level of attention to set-up and workman ship, etc.
squeeze lever/open/close nipple/release lever
It takes me a bit longer to bleed brakes as I have to say this out loud while doing it! But even I can manage two hope brakes in under an hour.
I don't actually think you are being ripped off. You are simply paying a premium for not knowing how to do it yourself. The LBS is charging what they think you will pay
So I assume DS has been on the phone to the LBS now and asked for the breakdown of what work needs doing???
If we are not allowed to speculate on whats wrong, at least give us the facts!
Experienced and skilled????
Sometimes maybe, but 'rushed and underpaid' could also be just as true. I've seen some right howlers of mistakes, bodges and corners cut by LBSs. I've had to correct them for other people
This. Most jobs don't require much skill so really it's just a case of time and attention. Something that is in short supply from a busy, underpaid mechanic.
The LBS is charging what they think you will pay
Not sure if that's what you meant, but I doubt the shop looks at each job/customer individually and weighs up what the most they reckon they can get out of them is.
They'll probably just work out what the parts are going to cost (at list price, not scouring the internet for the best deals), how long they reckon it's going to take them, and what their hourly rate is to arrive at a figure which will [b]always[/b] be substantially more than you could do it for yourself.
IMHO if they're charging for things that don't need replacing (e.g. mechs, cranksets etc) then yes, that's a ripoff. Otherwise it's just their price to make it all go away, which the OP can either accept or not.
Also as said above when people say "What? Get that from Merlin for £xx" they're basically writing off their own time as being worth zero, and very likely conveniently forgetting all the faffing around the job itself. The LBS will be charging for both those things.
That said, the prices shops charge for this stuff does need to be backed up by a decent standard of work, and often it's lacking. For me that was just as much a factor as the cost when I started to do it all myself.
So what you are all saying is you want to pay peanuts for bike servicing, but you don't want monkeys working on your bike right?
The cost the OP gave is about right for an LBS. * if it is nessecary to replace all those parts
Proper lolling at TJ the master mechanic too 😆
Why Ziggy?
So what you are all saying is you want to pay peanuts for bike servicing, but you don't want monkeys working on your bike right?
Who's saying that?
not all mechanics are underpaid either ..... I wasnt and i know a few folk still making good coin from it !
just gotta pick your shop well and then justify your pay packet with a skillset - unfortunantly just being "the" mechanic isnt going to justify that.
4 pages in an hour....good effort folks!
The same amount of time that it takes to bleed a brake (if you're charging by the hour that is)
How much time does a bike shop mechanic need to spend on STW every hour?
It's only right the customer pays for this IMO.
[i]How much time does a bike shop mechanic need to spend on STW every hour?
It's only right the customer pays for this IMO.
[/i]
😆 😆
You only need new chainrings if your old drivetrain was TOTALLY knackered.
You almost certainly don't need a new rear mech - they go on for ever unless you smash them on a rock. I'm running 2007 parts and I've got a 2000 mech somewhere that's still fine.
You might need a new front mech if you've got it caught on something and twisted it, otherwise the same as for rear mechs.
Forks do need servicing, £80 or so would be reasonable.
You should learn to do this stuff yourself - it's incredibly easy.
Seems to be plenty of folk here who would like to see lbs owners/workers condemned to <min wage for ever 😕
I never use a shop for servicing but would expect them to make a decent living from it if I did.
I expect dn want the LBS to make a decent living on servicing - I did link to MY lbs servicing costs.
In the case of the OP tho I believe the costs seem on the surface well over the top.
[i]You almost certainly don't need a new rear mech[/i]
maybe he wanted to upgrade from something lower down the groupset peckign order?
[i]You should learn to do this stuff yourself - it's incredibly easy. [/i]
So's servicing cars but a lot of people are happy to pay someone else to do it and use the time on doign other things.
Not everyone enjoys mechanical tinkering or has the time to do it.
How much time does a bike shop mechanic need to spend on STW every hour?
I'm procrastinating while doing the VAT return 🙂
I wonder if this is tax deductable?
There seems to be a lot of assumptions in this thread. In fact almost every post since the first is completely made up. No one actually knows what the OP has asked for, or what service the bike got. So pricing it is no more possible than intergalactic space travel.
So here's a typical derek_starship thread. Open with an obviously contentious statement, thin on detail, then walk away, ideal breeding ground for the frothers. 🙂
So here's a typical derek_starship thread. Open with an obviously contentious statement, thin on detail, then walk away.
He's good at it though isn't he? 😀
So's servicing cars but a lot of people are happy to pay someone else to do it and use the time on doign other things.
Not really a valid comparison. We're talking about a number of repairs on the OP's bike, not a routine service. I wouldn't describe changing the clutch as easy.
Must be well knackered to need the lot doing. If your time poor / cash rich its an easy option I guess.
National bike shop tried to charge my work colleague £480 for exactly the same work on a 1 year old bike.
We ordered the parts from CRC and had them delivered to work (amazing next day delivery). We fitted the parts in under 30 minutes in the car park. Total cost for the parts was just under £100 (SLX cassette, chain, jockey wheels, middle ring and two pairs of juicy brake pads).
Forks didn't need a service, shop just thought they needed one due to the condition of the drive train . Brakes didn't need bleeding, they came up firm with new pads.
This appears to be a revenue generation scam.
So he wrecked a drive train inside the forks service interval - 20-30hrs ?
Not saying its not possible - ive certainly done it but its not normal.
I struggle with long sentences but these appears to be a huge amount of guff on this thread, one randomly chosen example:
You almost certainly don't need a new rear mech - they go on for ever unless you smash them on a rock. I'm running 2007 parts and I've got a 2000 mech somewhere that's still fine.
Crap! Loads of folk year them out quickly. 10s speed is more sensitive to year than 9 than 8 too.
One issue is the lack of specification on the op, nowhere near enough detail for the armchair expert lbs managers to work out the price.
Derek if you have space and time, DIY. Get a workstand, the Park tool '3 allen keys in a starshape' things and a copy of the Build Your Own Mountain Bike DVD. Watch it through, it shows you how most parts go on (and therefore off).
When both my LBSs failed to sort out an issue with my M4s dragging I got sick of taking it back, rolled up my sleeves and went from there.
If you get stuck or need help on tecnical stuff, put a properly worded query here. (There are no end of knobbers on STW but there are also plenty of decent people who will help out)
You won't regret it and you'll enjoy your biking more.
Doing research out of curiosity now:
Leisure lakes catalogue a says:
SLX chain - £30
Cassette - £55
Rings - £50 for all 3
Bottom bracket £15 to£40 let's say £30
Devore cables £25
Brake pads assuming SLX £15 an end so £30
Fork service - £90 from TFT
So £310 in parts and "contracted out service"
Aside for this there will be:
Pretty much strip and re-build - frame. There isn't much left.
The wheels will have been checked and trued/tensioned if necessary. Hubs will also have been checked and possibly adjusted. Possibly with new bearings fitted if cup and cone.
Brake bleed is great and quick when it goes well but can be problematic!
The fork will have been removed and replaced. With adjustment.
So that is a fair amount of likely work for £140 assuming my guess on parts is correct. And yes I know parts are cheaper on eBay but that is a decision you make when you prefer the service of a LBS.
No one has been ripped off. Just charged retail prices for a fairly major lump of work. I may well be light
on parts but reckon that I am there give or take. As for labour - it is going to be an hour to sort the brakes front and rear, and I would guess a further 90 mins to 2 hours to sort the rest of the mess is not unreasonable!
All this talk of doing it yourself got me thinking that I should really tackle the 'trickier' jobs that I normally pass onto the LBS. Which led me in a roundabout way to this page
[url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/new-bike-maintenance-website-ideascheme-opinions-wanted ]http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/new-bike-maintenance-website-ideascheme-opinions-wanted[/url]
which has some really good links for DIY guides a few posts down the page. Particularly liked the Pinkbike guides.
But if anyone can recommend a day course in the Bath/Swindon area, I'd be interested. (Apologies for the post-hijack).
This is why I talk to my customers about the bike they have brought in and show them how to check things if they are interested in listening so there are less surprises in the future.
It is always worth getting to know your bike even if you don't do the work yourself.
What is it with bikers that make them the meanest consumers on the planet at the expense of keeping your bike on the go and your lbs in existence ?
Seriously, if you think this is a rip-off get a like for like quote.
This is why I talk to my customers about the bike they have brought in and show them how to check things if they are interested in listening so there are less surprises in the future.
Yes, it also makes them appreciate more why things cost what they do. Like when I go through my tools and explain how much they cost 🙂
£66
£27.50 for the MOT
£28 filler cap (it was broken, but looks like the spanner monkey might have broken it a bit more than it already was as the fault had been there for ages and it was in several pieces when I got the car back!)
£8.50 for a new bulb and cleaning out the connectors
I have no problem spending good money on a proper service.
My time is too valueable and my attention too limited to faff with my bike for hours.
Its the booking bit that's got me stuffed. Perhaps they should charge more IMO.
Slight sidetrack:
My LBS asked me to wait 10 days to bleed my brakes (damn avids!) as the workshop was full. I am well known in the store as I spend loads there and my bikes break frequently.
Obviously no regular rider would want to wait this long with our current weather, so I asked the manager if I could pay one of his mechanics cash to do it in his own time. I offered to pay him twice whatever his hourly rate at the shop is to do it in his own time.
I was quite abruptly and rudely refused.
I've now changed LBS as of yesterday.
I can't see what his problem was really but I have no issue paying good money for quick and reliable service.
Hmm, I can see why the manager would be annoyed by that, unless you were suggesting that this mechanic could do it with your tools in your garage or something?
