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I experienced this yesterday morning, not for the first time but this was particularly upsetting because of the conversation I ended up having with the driver at the lights he then got held up at.
What I find hard is a combination of the sense of injustice and lack of redress combined with the sense of degredation that someone who hates you that much to willfully put your life at risk.
I imagine it's what being on the end of a racist attack might feel like.
Yesterday's experience was unfortunate in that we ended up at the lights together. I wasn't confrontational but he certainly was. I asked if he did it deliberately and he snidely laughed and said he did. I asked if he had kids (turns out he did) and explained that all I wanted was to be able to go home to them at the end of the day.
His explanation for why he did it was because I was 'all over the road', which of course I wasn't. I had adjusted my position becausae the left side of the road cuts in sharply and you know full well that motorists aren't going to adjust their line so as not to collide with you, so for a short period I was quite a way out from the kerb, so that I was in the correct position once the road had narrowed and yes, the guy couldn't pass for about 50m. But even when he did, he still got caught at the lights.
Honestly it left me feeling really down. So, apart from having a headcam, what can you actually do?
nothing, let it go and enjoy riding - you will be miserable with a head cam.
Call the police when stood next to the. And read the registration to them.
drag him from his coffin and hoof him in the slats.......
thats the response you wanted right ?
thats the response you wanted right ?
No far from it. It's a real problem. There must be something that can be done that isn't neanderthal.
Tricky one. First thought is report to the police. If they get enough of this sort of thing for the same driver or the same stretch of road they might actually do something. Or as above, forget it. There will always be idiots. I know I occasionally get into a minor altercation, even if it is just muttering under my breath after they've gone or thinking of what I could've done at the time. Always makes me a feel a bit rubbish and has no impact on them.
What bothers me most about the 'forget it and carry on' response, not that I am dismissing the suggestion, is that if this were something like racist or sexist abuse being thrown at you, there is no way we would allow that or suggest that we just ignore it as a society.
I don't think punishment passes are any different.
commuting i wear a road hawk , got fed up of the same ****s doing the same things day in day out - folks on here say its placebo effect but i never had a single recordable since i fitted it in a prominent position -
recreation i choose quiet roads.
Mankind mostly don't deserve the air they breathe. People don't really think through consequences (not that there are any for wilfully killing cyclists as we know).
Option 1) start travelling armed and go for the "Falling down" vengeance approach, it'll probably be a week or 2 till you get caught.
Option 2) Suck it up and realise that people really aren't all that nice.
Yeah, if you were coming here for cheering up then you ain't getting it from me.
Pity them because theyre stuck in a car and smile because you're on a bike. That's about all.
You're piece about getting back to your kids was good. Got to find common ground and allow these morons to realise they're being ****wits as they won't be told for sure.
Other than report it (right there and then while standing in front of his car and saying "yes, I think I smell alcohol on his breath too" 😈 )* there's not much you can do.
I went through a phase a year or so back when I got totally fed up with it, and due to some other things going on at home I was also a bit shouty when I managed to catch up with people, I can honestly say that the best thing I've learned to do is let it go.
Obviously I'll still report things if it's properly dangerous, but I try to just ride as safely as I can and not let it get me down.
*no of course I don't condone lying like this
I went through a phase a year or so back when I got totally fed up with it, and due to some other things going on at home I was also a bit shouty when I managed to catch up with people, I can honestly say that the best thing I've learned to do is let it go.
Hugs pal. That resonates a little more than is comfortable.
Realistically there are a few options, but I am not sure any of them are particularly helpful...
1) Do nothing. Try & not let it bother you. I don't know how you do this.
2) Report to the Police. They might take action, they might not. A headcam could possibly help if you end up speaking to the driver and he makes some kind of threat or admits to doing it on purpose. There was a solicitor a while back who got a bloke on camera saying that he'd kill him next time (or words to that effect) and he got him done for it.
3) Get confrontational/physical. Not sure it helps in the long run & can get you into far more trouble than the original perpetrator. Might make someone thing twice about doing it again, but will probably make them hate cyclists even more.
3) Get confrontational/physical. Not sure it helps in the long run & can get you into far more trouble than the original perpetrator. Might make someone thing twice about doing it again, but will probably make them hate cyclists even more.
With cleated shoes on and a bike to manage, that's a very risky proposition. And as you say, nothing good will come of it even if you did win the fight.
Call it in and report it. Exactly as you have here. Yes, you did move out in advance but did so to avoid an issue further ahead; I've done the same before and will do again as it's the safest manoeuvre whether vanman behind thinks it is or not.
Unlikely they can do anything, be honest with them that it's your word against his but particularly given his lack of remorse / don't care attitude, seems like the type who's done it before and will do it again, so maybe if we all report them every time, then enough of a picture emerges that they might just be able to act on it.
If i see a cyclist that's 'all over the road' I'd take special care to pass even wider, just in case, surely?
Try to get the law changed to have presumed liability for motorists?
Greg, if it was in Sussex then you can use the [url= http://www.operationcrackdown.org/ ]Operation Crackdown[/url] website to report it. I had to report a marked patrol car which executed a really shit overtake a couple of months back!
Nothing will necessarily happen, but it's a record, and if the guy has a number of 'strikes' then it's far more likely they'll take action.
Small bottle of car brake fluid strapped to your stem. Quick squirt on his passenger door as you chat..he'll soon realise what you were up to...
DrP
I asked if he had kids (turns out he did) and explained that all I wanted was to be able to go home to them at the end of the day.
You pretty much did everything you can do. The guy will have been all puffed up with adrenaline and testosterone, so there's no way you were going to get him to back down and apologise there and then. But hopefully you made him feel like a bit of a **** inside, and he might think twice before being a dick to the next rider. Well done.
you found a ***t, it's not hard, but it's always unpleasant.
i reckon you handled the situation very well, maybe a little spark of compassion may twinkle in his tiny brain the next time he thinks about throwing his weight around.
Trouble is, if you let it go, it becomes 'acceptable'. And then if a driver misjudges his/her punishment slightly, it's game over for you.
Moving over slightly is you saying you took Primary? What else are you supposed to do. It's defensive riding to avoid being squeezed by someone with poor judgement.
If it winds you up enough (and it should), the only really active option is to record and report it to the Police. There's a risk you'll become one of those shouty tossers always looking for conflict to record but you come across on here as pretty level headed so you might just avoid that.
The other options are all a bit passive and unsatisfactory.
[probably pointless personal campaign]I always refer to it as a
"cowards pass aka punishment pass" in the hope it comes into common use [/probably pointless personal campaign]
as to this incident - the world is full of idiot ****s with bad attitudes and dangerous driving habits a lot of them shouldn't be let out in a car - nothing you personally can do, social pressure to change attitude to car use is what is needed and anyway you caught him at the lights so he wasted his skills
ooh tw t is in the swear filter?!
Hugs pal. That resonates a little more than is comfortable.
Do not under-estimate how your own mental state can impact things like this, both your sensitivity to them and how you deal with them. Even your little internet man-hug there has just made some memories surface that have made my lip wobble and a whole load of dust miraculously find it's way into my eye.
I hope whatever it is you're dealing with comes to a positive conclusion for you but to pass on a bit of advice, the single most useful thing anyone has ever said to me (and I think it was on here) for dealing with situations like this, and it's applicable to life in general as well, is:
"[i][b]we shall not allow these people to pollute our minds with anger[/b][/i]"
reporting things like this is important, having the (calm) discussions with them is also important, but above all do not let [i]their [/i]anger become [i]your[/i] anger.
Ive taken to wobbling a bit if i suspect the car/van/lorry is about to do something stupid. Just an exagerated weave around a pothole or overbanding when i hear them shift down while aproaching a traffic island or suchlike to make them think twice. Seems to work and avoids the potential confrontation and makes them consider their own actions first so they might just remember it next time they come up behind a cyclist.
Wear a T-shirt prominently advertising kick-boxing lessons?
I also think you did all you can do. he may be confrontional at the time (most people get defensive) but if you're calm, he may at least think about it afterwards and change his mind.
If he doesn't change his mind, he's a see-you-next-tuesday and nothing would make a difference.
I find cameras are a faff to use every day, unless you've got one of those rear light ones http://cycliq.com/product/fly6)?
just get the camera phone out and take a pic or video,i did to a taxi driver last year, he screame what you taking my picture for, i explained for my web site.wwwfatbastardsdrivingtaxis.con, he even asked me to spell it for him.
Or you could shout, possible drink or drugged driver here please avoid him, driver then has to prove he isnt drunk or drugged.
Open the rear passenger door as you go past at the lights 😀
congratulations on showing restraint. I could let the punishment pass go, but the snidey laugh and his response may have sent me into a rage resulting in some kind of violence inflicted towards his car...*
You are clearly a better man than I!
*this obviously depends on how hard he looked.....
*this obviously depends on how hard he looked.....
Last person I had pass stupidly close was clearly looking for a fight. He's stopped just at the top of the road I lived in. All I did was look him in the eye as I cycled past slowly before turning, then he started shouting clearly looking for grief. He said "You got something to say?" I just replied with "You didn't see me then?" he kept going, I cycled on home.
Last time his car was in the same spot (over the weekend) there was also a police car and van parked close to the same corner. I'm assuming his presence had something to do with it, glad I left it alone to be honest.
Moving over slightly is you saying you took Primary? What else are you supposed to do.
It's absolutely the right thing to do.
The challenge is 99.9999999999% of drivers think that legally we should only ride in the gutter.
wot tpbiker said.
dont think i would have held it together that well.
Quite simple really, I don't negotiate with terrorists. Ignore it and carry on your ride, perhaps a little more defensively than before.
Check this site out...
http://www.nearmiss.bike/
Laudable aim - hope it provides some reasonable data which is instructive to cyclists as well as drivers/local authorities etc. The first clip in their example video shows someone nearly getting left hooked by a non-indicating driver after filtering up the inside on the zigzags of a pedestrian crossing.
OP - I think the only positive action you can take is to report to police. The problem is that this feels pretty ineffectual when all you want to do is smash their wing mirror off.
Seemed you handled it pretty well but there isnt much else we can do.
I used to go apesh1t on them (doors/mirrors have been damaged) but nothing ever changed, now I just try to ignore them but its very hard, I often just give a slow shake of the head and a sad face now.
I hate drivers that do this and I wish them all a slow painful death.
Probably just emphasising the above but report it. I have reported a couple of drivers. The police in Newcastle take it seriously. The last one they paid the guy a visit which was probabyl rather embarrasing for him as he looked (apart from trying to kill me) as an otherwise normal person and I'm sure his wife and kids did wonder why he was being questioned by the police.
They now also have it on record. Without a witness or video (they recommended I get one) they can do little. But if it happens again then he will have previous and will probably be arrested.
I've often fantasised about these.. [url= http://www.amazon.co.uk/ResQMe-Escape-Tool-Clip-Black/dp/B000IE0EZO ]http://www.amazon.co.uk/ResQMe-Escape-Tool-Clip-Black/dp/B000IE0EZO[/url]
Doubt I'd ever be brave/stupid enough to use it though.
I've just started commuting again after stopping in Jan because i just couldn't be bothered with this sort of stuff anymore. I can get angry really easily, I try to reign it in but i just loose it and get shouty, i've always been like this. I hate it though, it just ruins my day. I used to love cycling into work, but at the moment i'm just not feeling it. now the weather is better i'm trying to get back into it but it's hard when nobbers do this sort of thing.
I had it this morning going round a roundabout, primary position, then indicate to turn off and a wagon behind me floored it past me on the exit. Why he couldn't wait a few more seconds I have no idea. Really pisses me off, cos it's ruining a big part of my life and my fitness is suffering because of it. I don't get the chance to MTB as much as I used to, so commuting is my only real source of exercise.
Idiots piss me off. Sorry rant over....... 😀
This is why I gave up road riding and only ride MTB off road or on minor roads and use the turbo instead.
I wonder what the punishment pass rate is like in US states where concealed carry of a firearm is allowed?
I wonder what the punishment pass rate is like in US states where concealed carry of a firearm is allowed?
They dont do punishment pass, they just run you down. Your 'supposed' to cycle in the margin (gutter) on main roads in the US.
Anyway, the whole point/benefit of taking the 'primary' position is it gives you space to move over if a cars tries a 'punishment pass', you can typically hear when they are coming so a quick glance over the shoulder will tell you they arnt leaving space, use the space youve made and move across at the right moment to make sure they dont clip you with a mirror.
They will end up picking on the wrong person and regretting it.
Pointing out why you were in that position on the road in a polite manner may or may not help. They may understand next time or they may take massive offence and it'll escalate. Not good when you probably share the road with them every morning.
At the end of a club run I was cycling with a guy and there were two others a good bit in front, we saw the car deliberately getting close to them as they were cycling two abreast (one in the cycle lane and one on the line) on an otherwise empty road. They all got stopped at a level crossing, one of our riders was lent against the car door to stop the driver getting out and a lot of angry words were being said. I rode up thinking it was going to end with a fight but the other rider with me calmly rode up to the door, announced that he was a police officer and had seen the whole thing and to expect a visit from his colleagues. The guy in the car went very quiet very quick and the whole thing calmed down. Not a bad way to defuse it but not guaranteed to work either!
announced that he was a police officer
was he, or was he bluffing?
I witnessed my first one of these yesterday evening (see my post history)
I'd have not noticed it except for the fact the van was traveling way too close to the curb for seemingly no reason & the driver wasn't looking where he was going as he was focusing on his mirror. it was only when he passed me I spotted the cyclist who was clearly less then happy.
I dislike the term Punishment Pass, it kind of softens it. A driver deliberately tried to hit me with his vehicle is factually more actuate and sounds as dangerous as it really is.
Being on the receiving end of any road rage - being a pedestrian, cyclist or motorist makes you feel like this.
We had a tit the other day in a badly lowered bmw who tried to intimidate us in our 4x4 after I beeped him for cutting us up. He was doing sillier and sillier manoeuvres and the end result was a stupid act of desperation on his part which was basically a punishment pass fuelled by red mist. If I had backed down we, being in a 4x4, would have been in a very risky situation where he could have slammed on his brakes making us swerve off the road or hit him at high closing speed so my only choice was to hold my ground and sit with a matter of inches between us as I was reading the situation around and knew he was about to get into into a very bad situation for himself forcing him to give up and foxtrot oscar out of there, probably with the chav girlfriend in the passenger seat screaming at him.
Had the OH and dog not been in the car I honestly could have ended it a very different way with the position he put himself in. But that is easy to say/do in a big metal box. When it happens to you when on the bike or on foot then it is very different experience that makes you feel even more violated.
Then the added frustration is that there is nothing you can do to make this person get their comeuppance.
I dislike the term Punishment Pass, it kind of softens it. A driver deliberately tried to hit me with his vehicle is factually more actuate and sounds as dangerous as it really is.
^ This
the OH admitted that had she been driving she would not have had the reactions to avoid hitting the bmw when it pulled in front of us. We honestly felt it was a deliberate attempt to cause a crash.