[Closed] PSA : The sad reality of a liftime frame warranty

'SHITESPEED'

We now rename you by forum poll 😀

Just googled Litespeed warranty. Thread, after thread, after thread about their effectively worthles warranties. And its been going on for sometime too. Here's a link http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/index.php/t-736934.html - A sad state of affairs. I've just bought a Turner on the basis of their excellent customer service. They warranty their frames for two years. That seems a reasonable amount of time. If you're using it regularly and there is a defect, its going to become clear fairly soon. As I understand it, they had problems with the 2009 1st generation 5.Spot and they sorted it quickly and cleanly and actually enhanced their rep as a result. IMO its a real shame when these family-owned businesses get bought out and the suits trade on the brand equity whilst simultaneously defrauding it. FWIW there are a few comments on here about Marin and how good their customer service is. They were recently bought out by a private equity outfit. I have hear nothing whatsoever to indicate that this ha effected their customer service, but I will be watching with interest to see if it does. I'm all off to email Litespeed about their warranties!

Hmm... seems that a lifetime warranty against manufacturing defects has raised people's expectations to the level that they think a frame will last as long as the buyer does. I didn't/don't read it that way, but I expect wise companies will offer far more limited warranty periods in future.

wise companies will offer far more limited warranty periods

I think thats fair comment - I don't think many of us would expect a frame to last forever, however I think its disingenuous for a company to push their 'lifetime warranty' as a selling point as strongly as Litespeed have over the years, to not stand by it.

The company I work for reckon the realistic lifetime of our product is two to five years dependent on amount and type of use. I think that's reasonable for high performance lightweight cycle racing components - it carries a two year warranty, and if something fails in normal use in that time, then we cover it under warranty, outside that, we don't, and we carry spare parts for five years.

Seems simple to me - if you only expect your frames to last 5-10 years of normal use, then don't advertise them as having a 'lifetime' warranty.

They warranty their frames for two years. That seems a reasonable amount of time. If you're using it regularly and there is a defect, its going to become clear fairly soon

I would hope that, through proper use and maintainence a frame would last at least 5 years. a fault might not show itself for that period but I would have had a good use of it over that period because, lets face it, when you spend over £1000 on a frame you are going to use it!

I have to go catch a plane, but there is some very good stuff on the old internet - Usenet - posted by richkatz@cruzio.com - go have a dig and see who that is

Keith Bontrager!
http://search.bikelist.org/query.asp?SearchString=%22HBS%3A+Re%3A+Frame+fatigue%22&SearchPrefix=%40msgsubject&SortBy=MsgDate [a]

Turner took 40mins to offer me a replacement better frame. I only paid 750 for it and explaibed Ud be hapoy with a resprayed rear...... nope brand new later frame.

makes me laugh really, in bmx (freestyle, not racing) a lifetime warranty is just that, and all the scummy bmx kids abuse it horribly. if bmx companies took the same stance as some of these mentioned they would be shunned and probably go out of business due to bad rep.

I got the same response from ABG/Litespeed last year when my 8 yo Merlin XLM cracked. It's a wear & tear failure, not covered under warranty.

I didn't take up their offer of a replacement Litespeed. Indy Fab got my money.

brant - Member
Certain materials such as steel and titanium actually have a threshold that if properly designed and used, can be bent an infinite number of times without failure.
The "if" is the key there. I don't think it's possible in many bicycle areas, and certainly not Ti down tubes. Not INFINITE life.

I just got sanctioned by Singletrack for expressing an over simplistic view of Litespeed for reneging on this warranty promise. My post was deleted.

So I would just like to say that I think Litespeed to be loathsome in the extreme for this behaviour.

Is that better?

And as for Brant intervening there....my 456Ti broke at the top tube near the head tube. Yes it was replaced on warranty. Yes On One did pay my postage. BUT..... I would rather it had been built 1/2 pound heavier and not suffered this failure. I would rather not have had to deconstruct and reconstruct the bike and spend several weeks without it.

Unpaid R & D operatives...........................the purchasing public.

Nice one to the poster for posting this

the less you ride, the longer your frame will last, and the shorter your life will become (unless you're a commuter, other factors may come into play)

So the key to a lifetime warranty is only to offer it on fantastically unrideable frames.

I just got sanctioned by Singletrack for expressing an over simplistic view of Litespeed for reneging on this warranty promise. My post was deleted.

I presume they are planning an in depth article which looks at this issue, how customers view "lifetime of first owner" warranty's, the views of the manufacturers, LBS's, a legal view on the warranty contract and the ASA view on the difference between customer expectation and the manufacturers statements on their websites.

They obviously would not want you to "spook" a manufacturer they are investigating by making extreme adverse comments on their public website forum.

after all they are "journalists"

What would Martin Bell do?

I would rather it had been built 1/2 pound heavier and not suffered this failure.

There's no guarantee that, if it had been half a pound heavier, it wouldn't have broken there. Would you really want every part of your bike so massively overengineered that there's no chance of it ever failing in your lifetime?

The company I work for reckon the realistic lifetime of our product is two to five years dependent on amount and type of use.

Are you the hitman for Superstar products? Perhaps you are just the trouble shooter 😉

and this my friends is why you should buy cheap unbranded chinese carbon frames and abuse them until they break then just buy another.....instead of spending a small fortune on a frame which is probably no stronger.

Well that's not very eco is it bwaarp.

Hello Mark and all,

I have been lurking around for some time with an interest in Titanium bikes and I came across this thread. It is something that I know a little about as I am a materials scientist so I thought I would add my 2 pence worth. The majority of my expertise lies within the composites area, however I also used to work for a F1 team in their materials laboratory where failure analysis of titanium components was my forte. So here are my comments:

Firstly, the warranty.
Specifying a 5 year life for a mountain bike is a complete nonsense and a ridiculous argument to base their decision on not honouring your warranty. As some members have already commented, fatigue could have a roll to play in this failure. However, fatigue is not sensitive to time (years of ownership). it is sensitive to cycles of a certain amplitude. This could be linked to the number hours of riding and type of riding and also probably your weight. Now Im rambling, but in short, there is no way that they can tell how many hours this bike has been used for therefore it is unreasonable to assume that it has reached the end of its useful life. After all you could have bought it used it twice and left it in the garage for the remaining years. So this is my first point. They have no way of estimating how much or little the bike has been ridden.

My second point is that realistically, unless these guys have cut up your bicycle, and examined it under a scanning electron microscope, it is unlikely (highly) that they will be able to know if materials or workmanship is at fault. You have a crack on the weld, this is probably a fatigue crack. To determine the cause they will need to cut away and section the weld to reveal the fracture surfaces. These surfaces will show markings which will indicate the origin of crack. There are numerous potential cause of crack initiation. These can include a simple scratch on the surface to inclusions and impurities in the materials that have occurred during welding or even during the production of the welding materials. So to summarise they don't know.

In my opinion, you have had the bike a while, and you know how much you have used it, so you will know or feel whether you have had reasonable usage. If you do not, I think you have a scientific case to follow this up.

I once bought a litespeed stem which i never used. I had it for a year or so then decided to use it. I realised it was bent (you couldn't see with out the handlebars in. Anyway, I had to really push them to change it so it doesn't surprise me at all that you are in this position.

Personally I also thinks its a complete kick in the balls that they have the cheek to try and charge you 500 for a repair !! i mean what the hell is that ! I think we all know its not going to cost that much, they should do it for free for good will! Anyway, if anything you can be safe in the knowledge that your post has made up my mind to never buy a litespeed frame!

If you need any help with this drop me a mail.

Cheers

[Well that's not very eco is it bwaarp.]

Titanium is not very eco (steel 6-15 MJ/kg, Titanium 900-940MJ/kg

Although it would help if these frames lasted longer than 5 years!!!!!

😀

Cheers

Gutted for you mate

I've been riding a Raleigh Titanium frame since 94 and its still going strong

The power of the internet might just help you out on this!!

Good luck!

Bloody hell Chief 9000....

"STW member in useful, informed, balanced, forum post shocker!"

It'll never catch on