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adsh interesting that. Is the weight and power loss not related to injury/sickness? Which would probably mean you're less well trained now than you were back in May. Which, while not impacting FTP that much, probably means your ability to make and recover from repeated efforts is well down. Which probably makes you a lot slower.
That's interesting adsh. You're lighter and can produce more power so on the face of it you should be faster?
That being said, you've said you're slower but haven't said at doing what exactly. Unfortuantely FTP doesn't gauge fitness which is about repeatable efforts rather than outright power.
Lighter, more power / increased FTP, but less fit? That would equal slower in your average XC race. You've lost a lot of weight in a short amount of time. Burned out? Over trained?
How / what events are you using to quantify being a lot slower adsh?
Ill and cutting every scrap of rubbish out of my diet so yes I'm not as 'fit' but I can produce the same percentage of my reduced FTP over my intervals.
There maybe a caveat - I've not done any hill repeats and my last session at Aston was damp and on HT which seriously impacts climbing grip.
And here we all are hoping that lower Watt/KG will make us faster!
r8jimbob88 - Member
That's interesting adsh. You're lighter and can produce more power so on the face of it you should be faster?
Check your maths, he's lost a lot of weight, and some power.
Which will make you slower on the flat at least. W/kg is really a measure of climbing speed, the assumption being you'd sit in a group on the flat bits and gain more aerodynamically than the heavy/powerfull guys will gain trying to slipstream you up a climb. Then descending is more down to skill than (minor) differences in weight.
And here we all are hoping that lower Watt/KG will make us faster!
🙂
To be faster it really is a case of thinking about the specific demands of the racing you want to be faster at and training that. Weight and 60MP watts (FTP) are usually just pieces of the puzzle.
W/kg is really a measure of climbing speed
@ FTP it's really only a measure of climbing speed up long steady climbs. For most climbs down South it's much more about shorter duration power efforts.
Actually, he's lighter and can produce less power.That's interesting adsh. You're lighter and can produce more power so on the face of it you should be faster?
As has been discussed on several occasions, for most UK riding outright W trumps W/Kg.
[i]Edit: Beaten to it, thats what I get for opening a bunch of threads in new tabs![/i]
I suppose it would have been more accurate to say that increasing W/kg through losing quite a lot of weight and only some power has made me feel proportionately less powerful than a faster climber.
Edit - and this neatly proves the point above^. Where's the Nutella!
May 2017 - 345W and 76kg - 4.54w/kg
August 2017 - 325W and 69kg - 4.71w/kg
Hutch used to try and race at sub 70 kg, spent a lot of time on diet, but ultimately found that, besides looking and feeling ill, his performance dropped off. His optimal race weight was about 72 kg if I recall. I think "too light" is a real thing. I'm 68 kg, and race weight could be as low as 64, but at that weight I'd be in the same place as adsh. And ill.
And well done OP. Steady gains. Mine is about 4.5 w/kg, and to be honest, I'm pretty happy with that. What I need is 5 min and 1 min improvements. My next race has nothing to do with FTP though 😉 . Keep it up, do some longer rides, enjoy the gains, go racing! 😈
I can echo the above....
I've gone from 70kg/ 316w /4.5wkg in week 0 to 68kg/ 339w/ 5wkg (allow me this rounding 😆 ) at the end of week 8.
In week 9-11(current week) I've had a constant barrage of colds, sniffles, sore throats etc with recovery taking a lot longer...
I'm going back up to 70!!
That's a heck of a jump in a short time... this is turning in to the powerPROfiles thread 😉
Probably something more to do with the lead up to the test to be honest.
Week 0 - 14 hours no structure- 316w
Week 4 - 7 hours structured - 332w
Week 8 - 6 hours structured - 339w
That's a heck of a jump in a short time...
Some of it likely due to getting stronger, but I'd also guess at one of two things...
a) having a very specific wattage target to aim for in a test is resulting in him pushing himself harder
b) he's got better at doing FTP tests (maybe the 8 weeks have been focused on stuff that would improve testing ability)
I had specific aims for the FTPs, but they were pie in the air - my last test I was aiming to hold 370w for the 20mins - came no where near that. I didn't get any better, they got harder lol.
Here was my plan the bit on the far right, Codes/hour(s):
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My plan was aimed at 1 hour crits.
But I don't want to pull attention away from the OP, I've got my own racing thread for that 😆
Good work Nath.
Pretty much stopped training here so I'm quite intrigued to see how quickly I can go the other way. I reckon by mid Sept I'll have lost a fair bit. From 5 to 4 will be a big ask but I reckon I can easily get down below 4.5 😆
Losing it is a bit careless MrB. Better to bottle it and sell on the black market. Bet you could fetch a good price for .5W/kg
Going well here. Added on a few more kg and becoming a bit less trained 😆 Interestingly weight always goes up a lot quickly when I stop training then comes down a bit, expect it's water retention or something like that. Probably down to about 4.8 right now.
Getting fat and out of shape every now and again has never done anyone any harm 😉
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Bumpy...
I retested today.
Not quite what I wanted...289 FTP, 3.55w/kg. Improvement over my last test about 6/7 months ago (275/ 6kg heavier). Strava guesstimated me at 308 FTP so was hoping G to break 300 on test...
I've been enjoying just riding over the summer, getting back to structure from next week as I'm back to work tomorrow.
Think I've put some weight on too having had a few holidays on the last 4 weeks.
2 steps forward 1 step backwards. Onwards and upwards though!
Marginal gainzzzz and such things...!
Apologies if this has already been asked/addressed fully in the thread - but I want to know how long a piece of string is.
How long are people finding it takes to add 1W per KG?
I'm in my 40s and starting to train hard, and with good structure from a plan - I'd love to go from 2.5 wkg to 3.5 wkg. Is that more likely to be three, six or 12 months?
I don't have much weight to lose. It's gotta be strength/fitness/power gainz.
I started serious training about 3 years ago and without losing weight went from around 3w/kg to 4w/kg (for 20minutes, so reduce that accordingly for FTP) over about the first 8 months.
Since then I've got to just under 4.5w/kg over 60minutes (actual performance, not 0.95x20minutes).
However, other aspects of my power profile (i.e. 5 seconds, 1min,5 Min, 20min, 3 hours) have changed - mostly improved.
You'll get the biggest gains to start with and then it tails off. It really depends what you're training for, as to what time duration you should be worried about your w/kg for. 10mile TTing is different to all day in the saddle obviously.
2.5W/Kg is essentially untrained, so should be able to make good initial gains up to ~3W/kg, then it starts to become much harder.
It'll depend a lot on how you personally recover and adapt to training, and possibly if you've been very fit (nit necessarily cycling) in the past.
I'd say 6 months at the very best, but 12 would be a more realistic expectation.
Well I'm sad to say I think I'm back to square 1. Broke my elbow a few months back and the inactivity and difficulties I've had meaning I couldnt spend much time on a turbo means I'm feeling a lot less fit and I'm back up to 83kg.
Not going to let this stop me though new routine starts today.
Plan to be back to 300ftp and 80kg by Christmas day.
How's everyone else getting on progress wise?
im just about to jump back to getting fit Paul . may join you for motivation on this front.
i mean ive never got "unfit" ill still ride all day at a fair clip and dont worry about 100miles+ on a bike in the slightest(i rode 2000miles across british columbia in the summer) BUT im carrying a bit of chunk - anyone that knows me will say **** off mind but when you have been at x level its very difficult to not compare your self to your peak.
anyway - got redundancy hanging over my head and im hoping to use the opportunity to cover a couple of life goals on the bike - how ever to make the most of it i could do with shedding about 15kg and get my power to weight back to where it needs to be - a power increase would be a bonus.
how ever for the training part i have at my disposal 2 broken exercise bikes (that i broke.... basically doing sufferfests on bin fodder exercise bikes means they no longer have any resistance) i have 2 decent treadmills and i have a multi gym. - All going well tomorrow i should have most of a bike and a turbo trainer with - but trying to pack it down into 2 boxes that are less than 300cm lxbxh is proving difficult...... even with a small frame ! no power meters , just got an HRM and an old garmin
weighed in at 87kg just there - so its more like 17kg to shed. - im 188cm.
although i dont have power my self i will do FTP using my mates power tap pedals - otherwise i may as well join the STW fat club....
Currently sitting on my best ftp of the season at 323w and with my weight around 87kg for 3.7.
I think 340 @ 85kg is doable next season for a spring peak.
I'm pretty much going to ignore my weight though- feeling strong enough to push the watts in training is more important than trying to morph into something I'm not.
Regardkess of the numbers, I want to be able to hold 26mph for 10minutes or so on my race bike which isn't so dependent on ftp anyway unless I get it to 380w 😆
Watching this thread with interest.
I need to work on my fitness and drop about 15-20kg myself. I recently relocated to Estonia and they love Xc marathon races over here. Did my first in September (over 5000 participants!) and soon realised I need to shed some weight and actually train! So got myself a smart turbo and TrainerRoad subscription for the winter - next to impossible to ride outdoors here in winter when it's -20 and covered in thick ice. Need to shift my cold then time for an ftp test this week. My goal is to be top 500 in the same event next September.
I want to be able to hold 26mph for 10minutes or so on my race bike
Crosshair, you should have got out midweek with that tailwind 😉
Halted the decline here, back on it now 🙂
Lol! I saw that nice trophy you got 🙂
I more mean in terms of Hillingdon lap speed. I'll find out next Saturday what if any new options I have 😆
Sorry to hear about the redundancy Terry. Saw a load of the photo's from your trip... looked amazing!
Im just off out to do my ftp test for my 4 week build block planned.
Its -1 degree in the garage, best find the long bibs!
Good luck!
Managed 285 watts that's adjusted using the 5% rule from holding 300 for 20 mins with lots of anaerobic bursts before the 20 min block. Think it might be a touch higher though as I was able to hold 400 for the last 2 mins maxing my hr out and I think I should have been hanging not fresh enough to do that.
Actually think the -1 really helped as keeping cool wasnt difficult.
Thats at 83kg. Need a 3kg drop and 15 watt gain by the time I break for Crimbo, shouldn't be too difficult coming off the back of essentialy 10 weeks off. Watch this space!
how you getting on then paul ?
Well it's been 3 weeks since that last post Terry and I've been averaging just 2 turbo sessions per week. I got ill AGAIN last week, having a 1 year old is crazy for viruses!
It's hard coming back from injury, I've been doing a bit more weights and plyo stuff too just re-hab for the broken elbow. Weight is pretty stagnant, but the turbo sessions are seeing me "feel" fitter. I think next ftp text will be Jan 1st (I'm not drinking at new year)
I'd like to be posting more progress, but in all honesty I'd be lying. The aspiration is still there but with a more realistic goal of a solid 4w/kg by the Fred Whitton next year in May. That's doable at 75kg and 300 Watts.
A
@chilled76, Paul, can you summarise your starting point and what you achieved prior to your injury to elbow?
Im searching for inspiration for the new year...
I have not been able to get a power test done but I've been averaging 2 interval sessions a week , some z2 and running 25 mins most days and squats and body weight work
I'm down 2 belt notches.
Be interesting to do a FTP when I get home
@chilled76, Paul, can you summarise your starting point and what you achieved prior to your injury to elbow?Im searching for inspiration for the new year...
Yeh no worries, started out at around 260 Watt ftp and 88kg.
Training and diet saw me peak at 79kg and ftp of 303
That's a gain from 2.5 to 3.8w/kg and you couldn't half tell! Took minutes not just seconds of some fairly short climbs. Then I broke my elbow... and got a bit fatter but not as fat as I started at. And my ftp is back at about 270 as I did very little at all for 10 weeks.
Good stuff Terry, that's some commitment!
Well a mate suggested a comeback for wembos 2018 when he heard I'm training again
Not sure how fiesable that is to be competitive but we can see.
After working down here riding my bike for 24 hours seems like child's play- it's just a case of finding my rhythm again and how fast that rhythm is.
Thats ace! Im really getting my act together to do a two pronged attack on the weight and ftp.
Anyone else in for a weigh-in and ftp test in early Jan?
This topic inspired me to set myself a goal for 2018 of 4,5 Watt a kg in my 20 min test. This as 1 hours tests are horror and the are many 20 min climbs around here for people of my fitness level.
Only have a power meter since a year and a half.
Training is manly focused on having fun as I don't like intervals anymore did my share in the previous century.
So in 2017 I hovered a long will around 300 watts making it a mere 3,45 because of my 87kg weight.
In may 2017 I went for it on a climb that ws just to short and we got at almost 320 so up to 3,7.
In september I did a cyclo and some nasty bastard climb got me at 350 watts confirmed by a 15 min effort a week later with similar values so we got to the lovely <span style="text-decoration: underline;">4 Watts </span>a kg.
Focus on 2018 is getting the number up a bit and getting the weight down to 80 kg at least.
Not done any dedicated efforts recently because of winter lack of shape. Wont be for a while as I had a hard crash on the mountainbike 2 weeks ago which did quite some damage to the musle fibres in my right thigh limiting the hard effort and burst for a while to get it to heal.
Got an about 300 watt effort early jan on my commute putting me around 3,65 watts pre crash
Got some post crash 10 minute efforts with heart rate on average 10 to 15 beats below treshold at 280 Watts so guess that if the leg could sustain the pressure would get we at a guestimate 320-325 actuall form which thanks to the weight loss equals about <span style="text-decoration: underline;">4 Watts </span><span style="font-size: 12.8px;">a kg again. </span>
Just to loose some more flab(still above 80kg) and get the power back up to last years values. Just half a WATT to go. But all depends on the leg injury how bad it is and the healing time. It already cost me a training camp can't afford to loose another one.
Have been close to a VAM of 1000 or at it on the steeper climbs and would like to get it at around 1100 for 15-20 min efforts so that I can get some reasonable results in the local cyclo's here in hilly France.
Ive lost another 6lbs.
As for performance I was only a few minutes off the leaders of strathpuffer on lap 1 and kept that consistently(on each of my 6laps as a quad...I know Keith was a soloist ) within a couple of minutes for each of my laps instead of my last attempt(post my 2010 peak) where I fell off a cliff time wise as the event went on Consistency is the key for me , means my head and legs are working together.....no doubt I could have held the leaders on lap 1 ..... But i'd not keep that up, knowing your continuous pace is key.
Canada touring/my turbo / running all making an odds and I feel alot more comfortable just jumping on a bike when I get back where previously I'd get back from Africa and dread starting again at the bottom. Managed 220k in a day the week before puffer 12 hrs saddle time which is a good omen for the shit I want to achieve this year.
Never managed to get an FTP on this trip , next time. My mate with the power meter is upgrading his set up for zwift atm so everything is out of order
Will continue to smash it blindly and test next trip
How you getting on Paul .... You have been very active on Strava it seems. Is it yielding results ?
Sounds awesome Terry. I'm working on endurance for the Fred Whitton at the min, no idea what ftp is but I'm down to 80.5kg. Not 100% back to where I was before I broke my elbow but it is getting there. Not sure when I'm going to test again, prob 8 weeks from now as my training plan hasn't got space for a random test; it's a very specific plan
Sounds awesome Terry, well done! I'm working on endurance for the Fred Whitton at the min, no idea what ftp is but I'm down to 80.5kg. Not 100% back to where I was before I broke my elbow but it is getting there. Not sure when I'm going to test again, prob 8 weeks from now as my training plan hasn't got space for a random test; it's a very specific plan