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^^ Open?
Why oh why do they have to have such a stupidly steep HA. Scott is only 90g heavier?
yer its an Open
and regarding the head angle, gerard says
It's not antiquated at all, it's the future. We have tested our geometry with a whole range of head tube angles and we simply prefer the steeper ones. What is interesting is that lots of people have the same feeling as you .. until they try it and then they are believers in our geometry. I prefer that over the reverse.Also note that in general we ride our bikes with shorter stems, not the 100mm you speak of. Further note that we show the geometry in a sagged position, which is how you actually ride them on average, right. Many brands show geometry fully extended, which will make the headtube appear slacker. Until you sit and ride on it of course. That said, we’re definitely the steepest of the bunch, and also the best steering of the bunch.
Good seeing the xc coverage on pinkbike.
Evie Richards second in the u23. She's having a hell of a good year so far!
DR, La Batty is teeny tiny, though.
I like steep HAs. The El Mar is 71 degrees - nice and quick. Just like it used to be.
DR, La Batty is teeny tiny, though.
She is a factory team rider though. You'd think they could make her a one off that fits and doesn't look ridiculous.
Re the Open HA. Most others are heading the opposite way and my riding style definately prefers the slacker side of XC.
Choice is good (sometimes).
Unlikely, it's got that springy seat tube, so loads of FE and special tooling etc. It'd probably make the UKSI track bikes look cheap and nasty after they'd paid for that little lot.You'd think they could make her a one off that fits and doesn't look ridiculous.
I wonder if the seattube bends the wrong way with the saddle levered out like that,
Good god those bikes look fast. Not keen on the mag wheels, although if they made a pair that looked like the old spin trispokes that would be a winner.
As long as they don't ride like spin trispokes..........
I'm with Molgrips on this one. The El-Mar's HA is 71, and feels a long way from steep. Could quite easily be a degree or two steeper without being on the titchy side.
Most others are heading the opposite way and my riding style definately prefers the slacker side of XC.
The downside of choice 'most others' can always be wrong, remember before 2013 or so we were always being told to ride long bikes for XC, short maneuverable ones for 'trail' riding. XC bikes haven't changed, but I doubt anyone would even look at an enduro bike with a comparable top tube length to an XC frame, they'r all at least 2" longer.
Give it 5 years and 'long low slack' will be something else.
Give it 5 years and 'long low slack' will be something else.
That not mostly to do with a slackening of the head angle and stems getting ever shorter? Can't really get much shorter now!
Unlikely, it's got that springy seat tube, so loads of FE and special tooling etc.
People always forget that making a one off isn't very expensive (single use molds can be made of a range of things for example), especially when you have in-house production facilities like Trek do. The biggest issue is that you will never get a 29er to fit her and look normal and she's got some odd quirks like the seat very far forwards so even on a smaller wheeled bike it'll still look odd.
The downside of choice 'most others' can always be wrong
I think it is more a case of people (the average Freds) and the trails they ride changing so the bikes change to meet their *needs*/ required levels of compensation 🙂
Not XC, but on the long, low slack topic... Look back to Warner's Giant back in Gawd knows when and the geometry is almost identical to the modern glory, 63 degree HTA, lower BB the works. There are some changes in that time like wider bars, better brakes and tyres but the requirements of fast people riding fast stuff hasn't changed all that much.
XC bikes haven't changed, but I doubt anyone would even look at an enduro bike with a comparable top tube length to an XC frame, they'r all at least 2" longer.
XC bikes have changed quite considerably IMO. Same trend of longer, lower slacker in its own way. Compare even an F29 to an FSi and you have less stack, a cm more reach, more than 2cm longer front centre, slickly slacker HTA, over a cm off the chainstays... go back and compare them to a F26 and even factoring in the wheel size change (itself a big jump) and the geometry is pretty different again.
There's usually ~1cm more reach on a comparable Endurbro vs XC bike (e.g. Nomad vs Highball). The difference isn't as big as you think. Even within a company with fairly short reach XC bikes and reasonably long Endurbro bikes like Canyon the difference is 27mm (Exceed vs Strive Large example). The front centres are of course very different but it is way off to expect an XC frame to be 2 inches shorter than the bikes at the more gravity end of things.
In House doesn't make it free.People always forget that making a one off isn't very expensive (single use molds can be made of a range of things for example), especially when you have in-house production facilities like Trek do.
You've still got a couple of molds to make, even if they are made from something disposable. Not even sure the OCLV process is possible with single use/prototyping molds, IIRC they need to be moderately solid. You've still got to work out the layup to make the flexy seatpost flex in a different manner to the original (it looks like she'd need a 75+ degree seat angle to get a 29er to work for her), you've still got to work out the new layup for a new frame size.
Maybe they should just invent a new wheel size for her, half way between 650b and 29er.....
People always forget that making a one off isn't very expensive
you are joking aren't you making one of something is quite possibly the most expensive way of doing anything that involves a mold or a machine
you are joking aren't you making one of something is quite possibly the most expensive way of doing anything that involves a mold or a machine
You could always have a frame made from tubes/lugs etc, with something that bares a passing resemblance to the iso-speed but doesn't actually work. Plenty of carbon frame makers could do that from tubes without needing molds.
OTOH, what she has obviously works. Maybe she actually want's a 75deg seat angle and it's not just a function of frame sizing. Remember it's taller people that benefit most form steep seat angles and putting the saddle forward to compensate for too smaller a frame is going to rob her of power so I can't imagine it's being done without a lot of thought having gone into it.
Taken from a 2013 article on Bikeradar about her cross bike:
“Because of her shorter femurs she runs a more forward setup. Her setback is only 1cm behind the bottom bracket,” said Trek Factory Racing team mechanic Matt Opperman.
I guess she could run a back to front layback, might look a bit less silly.
Re the idea of Batty's proposed one off frame, specilazed haven't made kalhavy a custom epic yet (he stated he rides the large instead of xl as the xl's head tube is too long) and he only ever rides the epic. Think as stated above one off carbon frames aren't that practical plus if works but looks a bit odd who cares, more tools than works of art.
Very clear kalhavy doesn't care about conventional set up. Always think what people on here would say about his set up if he was a regular joe (esp seat angle, 130mm stem etc).
one off carbon frames aren't that practical
Is it really that big a deal? Specialized seem to be able to knock out [url= http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/pro-bike-tom-boonens-specialized-s-works-roubaix-sl4-36952/ ]custom geometry frames[/url] for the likes of Boonen.
Hardtails are one thing, a custom FS bike would be a different kettle of fish I imagine.
The headtube length as a reason for rejecting an XL does seem odd though. To me (off road at least) it's only really a function of comfort and weight distribution. If it were too high (within reason) would it really slow him down relative to riding with a huge layback and 130mm stem?
Emily's is low I presume in part because the forward seat position naturally tips her forward (the reverse of a TT bike, which is low first, thus necessitating a steep SA).
I know what you mean but I think it's save to say Kalharvy knows what will help him be fast a lot better than us.
Can't be easy to read a Garmin at that angle!
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Nino's newness. And....OMFGCOPTERZ! It's a 29er.
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gone all batty on the saddle rails
paint job is so good
I'd spotted the stem, but not the saddle!
I wonder how much is really looking for improvements and how much is gamesmanship with Juju Abs.
"I've gone FS"
"So have I"
"I'm National Champ (again)"
"So am I (again)"
"I'm European Champ (again)"
"I'm World Champ (again)"
"I've got a dropper"
"I've gone 29er"
"I've got a new girlfriend who has more stripey jumpers than you"
"I've got an impressively manly 36t chainring"
...and so on...
I don't imagine for an instant that it's like that - they both seem like pretty good lads, but maybe, just maybe...
Skinwall pron!
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And this? [url= http://www.pinkbike.com/news/bike-check-andrea-tiberis-frm-anakin-xco-world-cup-round-3-2016.html ]This deserves a link. Some serious pimpage going on! [/url]
Oh that's nice!
*rubs thighs*
Yes please.
that tread looks glued on. Running tubs?
Like the fsa stem on the BH. Like the flat force but listed in length & angle like a normal stem. Now if only anyone was selling them!!
Neither setup looks like tubs to me. Would be excited if they were though!
That rim looks like it'd be for a clincher. Those the new carbon crossmax then?
Nino didn't have much joy on 29er!
Mavis's a funny one, is it just me or have they lost their way somewhat? Back when I knew about bikes in the nineties mavic were great but it seems now they are behind the curve a bit
Nino runs dugast(?) tubs.
I think that Mavic are stuck in a slow product cycle, they have been caught out with the move to wider rims, by newer faster companies. But once they have caught up, they will probably do it well. I also think it is a mistake forcing customers to buy a wheel tyre package.
Personally I think skinwalls look shit.
Nino runs dugast(?) tubs
Yep - but the discussion is about those Mavic/Michelin wheels above, which don't look like tubs to me.
I agree that skinwalls generally look crap though.
Agreed the wheel tyre package is daft.
Yes I think Nino uses dugast tubs. Trying both 29er and new tyres today and flatted twice. Imagine he'd have given absalon a run for his money if not.
Anyone know why grant Ferguson dnf'ed? Seemed to be going well the first couple of laps but then diasapeared
Edit. Agree with njee, the mavic Michelin combo defo don't look like tubs
The new road stuff Mavic have been releasing this year look a vast improvement on the old stuff.
Not a great advert for the Dugast Ori tubeless tubs if he was on those
Kulhavy still doesn't know how to set a bike up. Obviously. 🙂
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Interesting to see the bottle so high up. Easier to reach, but harder to get in and out, I'd have thought.
And....No Dugast for Nino? Looks like Maxxis here.
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I love these pictures. So weird that we have to go to PB to see them.
The size of the Eagle cassette looks silly for me. I'm really curious whether the pros need that range.
They're running 38's up front (which is about the maximum the bikes will fit) so 38/50 is about same bottom gear as 32/42.
Whether they 'need' it is largely irrelevant....they get paid to use it so we'll buy it!
so few riders correct their saddle to run level once the suspension has sagged.Kulhavy still doesn't know how to set a bike up. Obviously.
(that is a 200mm travel rear end, isn't it ?)
looks like a dise-loading cage to meInteresting to see the bottle so high up. Easier to reach, but harder to get in and out, I'd have thought.
Nino's tyres are certainly quite interesting.
Unbadged maxxis aspens - the interesting part is that aspens are made of paper whuch doesnt make them seem very suited to the rock gardens, and dont come in 3c compound. So does this make them an Aspen2 prototype?
@Shaggy, yes they need that range, the 50t allows a bigger chainring, which in turn gives higher top speed for tarmac finish line sprints.
It's been a while......
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And - https://www.pinkbike.com/news/developing-the-scott-spark.html