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Onyx. Who cares if they are quiet? The engagement on them is insane - never ridden an onyx cassette hub but the bmx hubs are just incredible. My son's crupi quad bmx hubs have 150 tooth ratchets (so a 2.4 deg engagement) but even they feel different to the onyx.
Not ridden the hydras but they have crazy quick engagement. I can't believe you wouldn't consider them because Neil has a set!
But in the real world, DT240s are better value than both.
Extra lite hubs look crazy light - 179 for a rear and 88g for a front. I’d even be ok with the cost of the front hub (130 eur) but the rear hub is too expensive at 360 eur!
Ride works - £550 for hubs - too punchy that.
At the moment the Erase components hubs are top of the list - followed by Hope / DT240 (depending on costs at the time I decide to purchase).
I don’t think it’s colour so much driving the bling for me - but the noise / shape / weight of the hubs.
The rims I’m after are 440g each, say 180g per wheel for spokes (28 x DT competition per wheel - the e1900’s on the bike now are 28 spoke) - with Hope hubs (492g / pair) that’s a circa 1750g wheelset (alloy squorx nips).
With the Erase but the same other stuff it’s a 1650g sort of weight.
The Extralite with the same build kit is circa 1500g. Waaaay too expensive though.
All the above would be run with a 2.3 aggressor or Dhr2 at the back in exo sidewalls. At the moment I’m running a 2.5dhfwt at the front but wondering about the 2.3dhf to save a bit of weight and rolling resistance so the bike feels quicker / sharper.
My full suss does the more gnar stuff and is built appropriately for it.
@Ian PV - Neil having a set is a factor - he’s loves his and I don’t want to rip him off.....plus a few people above seem to have had issues with the Hydras - plus £££
I don’t want silent hubs so the Onyx is out - I’ve grown to really like my loud freewheel. Saves having a bell 🛎
decent handling
pleasesqueezeme?
XT weigh a ton
Yea, I suppose the same weight as a DT350 and a mere 10g lighter than a Pro4 isn't superlight these days......
Only £80 for a set though, so you could always buy a Chris King BB with the change.
XT are still cup and cone though aren’t they? They must have made them a lot lighter as the one I built into a 9mm qr wheel could have been used as a door prop with how much it weighed. The 12x148 Pro4 I used for another wheelset felt a lot lighter.
Mark at Spokesman wheels is offering builds with the Erase hubs and obviously thinks they're decent so that's a good recommendation.
I think funds allowing I’m going to try those Erase hubs. That’s either assuming I get a new boost fork, or at a later date they could supply boost adapters for the non-boost version of the hub. Rear is boost on both my frames anyway so that’s easy.
XT are still cup and cone though aren’t they?
Yep, although the sealing is now much better than the original QR hubs, which would usually outlast a wheel anyway. And the new adjustment mechanism takes a lot less skill to get right.
They must have made them a lot lighter as the one I built into a 9mm qr wheel could have been used as a door prop
I think they finally shed the weight when they dropped the old bolt on freehubs and started developing the scylence ones which should have been an improvement on the DT design as the DT relies on the spring pressure whereas the Shimano design has angled splines on the drive ring so the harder you pedal the harder it pushes the ratchets together.
Although they seemed to drop the scylence bit, apparently you can bring it back by removing the washer that prevents it from retracting the ratchet ring completely but presumably shimano had their reasons.
This sounds tacky but I wonder what a hub that was finished in an oil slick finish would be like?
Wonder no more!
https://www.wiggle.co.uk/ns-bikes-rotary-front-32h-disc-mtb-hub
If sir would like his oil slick to extend onto the spokes: https://www.wiggle.co.uk/ns-bikes-enigma-rock-mtb-wheelset-1
Another brand:
https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/octane-one-orbital-pro-ss-rear-mtb-hub-2020/rp-prod131181
Another brand:
Not really, or maybe not exactly...
Octane One is budget sub-brand of NS Bikes...
Cheers!
I.
Haha thanks - I did find those. Think they’re quite low rent hubs though - the first is only available in oil slick in a 20x110 size and the other in 10x35.
The oil slick spikes are gross though!
I don’t actually mind the look of the NS one but I’d probably regret buying them after a short period of time....
Yeah XT still cup and cone. That's what I like about them. So so easy to service. After you do it a few times it becomes ridiculously easy. I try and get components that are easy to get spares for cheaply to save trips to the bike shop. Good feeling of satisfaction as well deep servicing your own stuff.
If the hope pro 4's are anything like the pro 3's they'll be horse scaringly loud (from experience.)
Yeah XT still cup and cone. That’s what I like about them. So so easy to service. After you do it a few times it becomes ridiculously easy
But why do maintenance, when you don't need to? Ah yes, some people [i]enjoy[/i] it... I ain't one of them!
My XT hubs just felt heavy! I didn't weigh em, but the bike felt better with AmClas and that's what counts. Also XT are butt ugly. Maybe that's more the point 😀
Yeah, I don’t mind maintenance but none of the hubs I’ve used so far have needed any. Happy to knock out old bearings and press in new ones on the odd occasion needed. I don’t want to make additional maintenance tasks by buying shimano cup and cone.
Hope Pro4 are noisy - I already have a set - but I’m good with that.
I must admit I am confused. Your original post requested posh (ish) hubs. To use a groupset parallel:
Budget - Deore
Mid Range - SLX
Posh (ish) - XT
Proper Posh - XTR
Kings, I9s etc sit firmly in the Proper Posh segment.
DT240 might be dull, but they are:
1) Proven (yawn)
2) Light (zzzz)
3) Smooth (dulllllll)
4) Easy to service and amend for freehub/axle changes (dozing off now)
5) Reasonable value (trouble staying awake)
They are dull in the same way that XT is dull, but I thought that's what you were after. If the title of the thread was 'are bling posh hubs worth more than dull posh (ish) hubs', that would be different (but honestly the answer is still no, and I have a garage of bikes with Kings, I9s, DT and prebuilt Mavic hubs).
Ultimately the posher hubs have more temperamental needs and might be more polished, but you really do have to go a long way to beat a j-bend DT240.
On the subject of straight pull, I can see the point on the road where a bladed spoke has some aero benefit, but not so much off road. It is really difficult to stop spoke wind up using a straight pull round spoke, so bladed is really the only choice.
When I moved my road bikes to SRAM AXS (XDR driver), the freehub and axle alone to change my Kings was almost £400. That's just flippin' mental!
Sometimes, dull is good, particularly when it comes to a part of the bike where performance and reliability trumps bling every day of the week. Save money on the hubs and go for the best rim (rotating weight) and spokes (strength and response) that you can. You will notice that more than a few hundred pounds more on hubs. Or spend the extra on upgrading the fork to a Boost Pike Ultimate as you mentioned. The Boost wheel will be stronger due to the bracing angle, and again with DT you can easily and cheaply fit Torque Caps to improve the interface and stiffness. Not all hubs even make Torque Caps (including King until recently and even now they are difficult and expensive to source). Plus having the latest standard will be better for future proofing the bike.
If money is no object, don't get wrong it's nice to have nice kit, and Kings are nice from a pride of ownership perspective, but from a pure performance perspective, the difference isn't just small, it simply isn't there.
If you want something noisy, Newmen hubs are like a slightly refined & louder DT 240.
Slightly refined in that they use the single spring that the newer top end DTs do rather than the usual 2 spring.
Significantly louder though having gone from 1501s to Evolution As. Probably not as loud as Hopes but not far off.
The silent Onyx are really cool but the bearings have not lasted well on the one pair I've experience with.
future proofing is also a key consideration for me. if i'm going to spend descent enough money on a wheel set (ie £500+), i want to know that i'll be able to transfer it between new frames and forks, so something like hopes convertibility for boost / non boost, various axle diameters and different drive train freehubs are a big consideration. i know others do this, but you can pretty much normally guarantee you can get you PRO 4's to work with want ever new configuration or standard. that alomg reasonable price, fit an forget reliability and a choice of colours (if that's your thing) makes it difficult to look eslewhere, all be it the dull choice
Fair comments.
Firstly - this is kind of evolving as I look at the different options.
Secondly I’ve decided I want this bike to be nice and spritely when you pedal and feel nice and reactive. So the less weight within reason the better.
I’m speccing the frame without an insane reach or seat angle / not running a really short stem and have picked a middling kid of headangle. It’s going to have really nice paint and I just want some nice components highlights.
The Erase hubs seem a good compromise - they’re actually a little cheaper than the 240’s but seem to be easier to service from what I’ve read. The (titanium) freewheel comes off easily and it looks to have quite standard bearings and doesn’t need proprietary tools to do any servicing.
The White industries look to be a touch heavier so I’m going to rule those out.
If I wanted something different, I'd be buying a set of Ride Works Component hubs, specifically the Bean Can hubs they've been showing off recently. Facebook posts here.
No idea if they are any good mind.
Kamakazie
Subscriber
If you want something noisy, Newmen hubs are like a slightly refined & louder DT 240.
Slightly refined in that they use the single spring that the newer top end DTs do rather than the usual 2 spring.
Newmen have moved to pawls for their new (Fade) hubs though - some cheap ones about with the older design as a result.
Newmen have moved to pawls for their new (Fade) hubs though – some cheap ones about with the older design as a result.
Ah yeah I'd forgotten about that. Interesting decision. I read the explanation but it kinda sounded like they've had issues with reliability of their implementation which is a bit worrying as an owner.... maybe don't go for the ratchet Newmens!
Ride works are £550 for a pair of hubs - that’s not far off the price of either a Pike Ultimate or the frame I’m buying.....so that’s a no!
Acros hubs make hope pro4 sound quiet they have 3 volume settings too.
£150 euro for rear from bike 24 for old shimano fitting
Other hub I am waiting to come in stock to try is new Spank Hex hub
So I’ve just taken a deposit for my old wheels / fork / frame so it’s new wheel build time. Just ordered DT XM421 rims - going for 32 spoke rear and 28 spike front (the 28 spoke rims are £20 less than the 32 spoke ones but think it’s more sensible to spec the 32 on the rear of a hardtail with a light ish rim).
Once I’ve had full payment for the bits I’m selling I think I’m ordering the Erase hubs. For me they’re something a bit different, sound easy to work on, have a high ish POE count and I think they’ll be fairly noisy. Also should allow me to get a circa 1650g ish wheelset I think which sounds sensibly light for an mtb that isn’t a full gnar machine.
I’ve considered lighter than normal spokes but actually just going to stick to black double butted spokes - either DT Competition or ACI probably.