😆
Good effort, but slightly disappointing rant. Could have been far more effective with random capitals and it made far too much sense grammatically. 4/10.
On the subject of 29", I am astonished at how many very tall riders there suddenly appear to be. On the Solaris thread recently, they all seemed to be freakishly tall. I don't want to be carrying round a ladder to get back on the bike in case I fall off, so staying with 26" here. Each to your own though. As you were.
I heard there was a proper MTB rim size in development, a new one designed for MTBs, not one that was borrowed off a CX/road bike, or some french randonneur bike. Or a kid's bike from the 60s.
I would say that,a am all for new development but not for silly ones either
cant remember which video it was i saw,it was along the lines of "well we have now tweaked the frames brakes and suspension,now it is the wheels we are sorting" 😀
🙄
AHWiles, you dissapoint me, I hope you wont be wearing your CGCC kit whilst riding the devils machine
26" wheels riders seem to get wound up really easily, is it small man syndrome?
I too was considering getting a cheapish 29er (canyon nerve al 29)
then i did the oktoberfest and witnessed pro/semipro riders trying to muscle and heave them through the twisty sections.
i lost count of the times some whippet would pass me on a climb on his big wheeler only to be amazed how comically slow they were through the twisty downhill sections.
i'll stick with my unfashionable blur LTc for the time being i think .
What does it matter, so long as you're riding? At the end of the day, though we love the kit and love to discuss it, the reality is that it is 99% the rider and 1% kit. You stick a good rider on anything and they'll ride i well. I can't remember where I heard this, but it is my new mantra: upgrade your ride, not your bike. Having said that I'm well and truly in the 29er camp. There are absolutely no downsides from my experience, my current 29er is just as manoeuvrable as my previous 26er, and definitely faster and just simply better (its more about geometry anyway rather than wheel size), though my next bike will most likely be a Cotic Rocket once I've saved the wonga, and I don't care that it is a 26er. I wouldn't sell a decent 26er for the sole purpose of getting a 29er, but if you're in the market anyway, you'd be a fool to not consider a 29er.
i lost count of the times some whippet would pass me on a climb on his big wheeler only to be amazed how comically slow they were through the twisty downhill sections.
that's just a fair proportion of XC racer types at events.. it's been happening since waaay before 29ers came along )
and so the middle class celeb wannabes
is it wrong to be middle class** ?
what about the working class celeb wannabes? are they OK?
** I live in Surrey and work in IT so I guess I'm a lost cause
pussywillowI won't be one of the sheep!
I am a true [b]free rider[/b]
oh please let that be an honest comment 😆 😆
Does it really matter what you ride as long as you ride I have 20, 24bmx's 26 ht and full suss and own a 29er for the long distance stuff each bike suits its purpose I don't care what people ride ad long as their happy ! Marketing will allways try and sell you the next best thing its upto the customer to make up their own minds
Dc
the reality is that it is 99% the rider and 1% kit
:::moves along to the next thread:::
I too was considering getting a cheapish 29er (canyon nerve al 29)
then i did the oktoberfest and witnessed pro/semipro riders trying to muscle and heave them through the twisty sections.
i lost count of the times some whippet would pass me on a climb on his big wheeler only to be amazed how comically slow they were through the twisty downhill sections.
i'll stick with my unfashionable blur LTc for the time being i think .
Now what you have done there is confuse big fast wheels with roadies racing XC. the poor roadies are all power no style. It's their mega mileage on straight road that makes them fast, and not great in the tech.
You don't need to heave them, or muscle them... It's just a bike with a slightly bigger wheel, they are not made of granite. Having some balls, and skill, or maybe just experience is what was missing.
At October fest you missed my team on fat bikes, which is about 29 inches on the outside. I was comically slow on climbs and bulldozed the single-track. I didn't hold you up.
Sir, i say your logic is sloppy twoddle at best..
Here I am about to be passed by the people who held me up in the woods (not in a highwayman way, but that may not be a bad race strategy?)
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OP... What marketing? What advertising are you referring to!?
Do you get door to door 29er salesmen bothering you?
Annoying phone calls.
Crappy daytime tv ads with old celebrities... John Tomac saying "If you bought an undersized wheel in the past 30 years, or had an accident on a 26er you may eligible for compensation. Call bikecocklawyers4u today.
I ask because I don't see any advertising but thats because I don't read adverts, because I don't read the mags.
I've got one of each. They are both better than the other!
Sancho! - something has happened to me, i now own more pairs of bib-tights than baggies.
so i'm afraid the combination of team lycra and wagon-wheeler is inevitable.
And I won't be one of the sheep!
I'm a shepherd and I like my big wheel riding sheep 🙂
I'm far from a 29er evangelist. They're good but not fundamentally better if that makes sense. It just depends on what you want out of a bike.
FWIW Strava tells me that I'm faster on the Bristol singletrack on my 29er than on my 26" bikes. as above don't confuse offroad roadies on 29ers with a fair comparison of 26 and 29" bikes (which in itself is quite a generalisation)
Not sure why people think that 29ers compromise bike handling or geometry. My 29er has exactly the same wheelbase, BB height, headstock height than its 26er equivalent - the only difference is it being shorter travel on the fork (its a hard tail). Again the saddle height and bar height was the same as my previous 26er so i'm not sat any higher on the bike, or in a different riding position, and the BB is no higher off the ground. I really do not find the handling of the 29er compromised in any way relative to a 26er - and all this nonsense about higher inertial of the wheel is just tosh. The only difference is the thing rolls better which is exactly what you'd expect from a 29er and exactly what 29ers are trying to achieve. In reality the difference between the bikes is not that great (though i'm probably not a good enough rider to be so sensitive to tell). Just ride what you've got and if you feel you're being targeted by the marketing men then stop buying bike mags (apart from Singletrack of course) as they are just full of adverts.
I think there's a lot of gullible people on here to be honest! Can't any of you have your own mind about this issue without following and being a sheep! Well all I can say is it keeps people in a job talking nonsense about how a 29r rides better! Of course it's going to roll better, why not get 32"wheels?? That will roll even better! 🙄
I’m not sure if I can get away with this but in the name of science.
A very seasoned cyclist friend of mine has his machine serviced at a shop who’s mechanic is, and I quote, a champion (can’t remember if it’s National, or European…might be the latter) MTB orienteer/point to point or whatever the style goes by. He was reported to say something like this, …It’ll all go 29 eventually, there’s no comparison…
Now, he might have been talking purely from a race perspective…I don’t know but I can obtain more info if people are really that interested.
I would defo have a 29 Soda or the like if I could justify one, but I can’t.
I’ll be out tomorrow with the lads at ‘the pines’ or the Peaks, I doubt if I’ll even think about which tyres I'm running.
The smart money would be on a good turbo trainer, diet and structured training programme. When you have those ‘ducks in a line’ test two identical bikes (you know what I mean you pedants) one 29 and one 26, same tyre pressures everything the same. Repeat each lap about 300 times on each, then look at the data.
Then post back here.
😆
the funny thing is that "mountain bikes" only ended up using 26" wheels due to a tire 'supply' problem with the Finnish 29" tires that the American pioneers (Fisher, Kelly and others..) could not source in sufficient quantities for their new companies which commercialised mountain biking
when they tested the 29" tire (on the 700c, wide rim) they said it performed better than the 26" wheel size
but they ended up "specifying" 26" wheels because Schwinn's 'beach cruiser' 26" tire was readily available in high quantities
so to anyone ney saying the 29'er, its really gone full circle..and come back to what was originally intended, but for a supply problem
spent 1986 to 2012 riding 26" wheels in all disciplines including XC racing (national level), DH racing(national level), freeride (sponsored Pro) and recreational trail riding
then bought a 29er in early 2012 and actually found it a better performer for off-road trail mountain biking, which very much forced me to question my previous cynical attitude towards the 'marketing' surrounding the bigger wheels 😉
Who u ride freeride for Esher shore?
pussywillow - 29er's are AMAZING! sit on the sidelines and watch everyone else having a blast on their 29er's! i sold my ASR5 C 26er because it was a poor relation to my 29er hardtail. I LOVE MY 29er! 😆 LOVE IT LOVE IT LOVE IT!
(ps, its all about the bike)
Pussy is Elbry
To say 29ers are all round better I think is fanboy stuff. 29ers ride better for some types of ground, and 26ers ride better for others. whats hard to understand about that, and the huff puff about it all? I don't get it.
Personally, If I want to go distance on forest tracks and tracks over the hillside, I'll use the 29er ... it covers ground better in that respect - more of a journey bike to me.
If I want to hammer along the more twisty faster stuff at an mtb centre, I'd more likely take the 26er - it feels more chuckable to me.
Im not getting a 29er it wouldnt fit in my car.
I've had two large 29ers in my Panda..
He wasn't pleased...
I've had a Panda in my 29er. Tore its arse on the bottle cage bolts but it still managed through.
Personally, If I want to go distance on forest tracks and tracks over the hillside, I'll use the 29er ... it covers ground better in that respect - more of a journey bike to me. If I want to hammer along the more twisty faster stuff at an mtb centre, I'd more likely take the 26er - it feels more chuckable to me.
Funny that, when the two fastest times round 'degla (c'mon haters) and The Marin are on bikes of the larger wheeled variety 😉
would you like to buy my new cube 29er?
And 29ers are a godsend to the industry, a perfect storm of generalised obsolescence. New, frames, new wheels, new tyres etc...which is good news if you sell bikes and bits, no.Damn those pesky slow adopters and their reluctance to spend more money...
form tuther thread.... 😀
fark knows,i know that a certain guy who comes art wi us,rides a certain one n loves it,but he gets the p1ss teken art a him!
if it went full 29er then we would have no choice right?
i for one cannot afford one if it does go tits up,still look wrong though.
I liked the post about the motorcycle industry re. wheels size....it raises a good point, motorbikes arent cheap to buy, tyres are expensive, wheels more so....if the motorcycle industry changed wheel sizes every five minutes it would go bankrupt as not too many people could afford to keep chopping and changing....its generally accepted that 17" wheels go on road bikes and 19"/21" front wheels go on off road bikes....if it's a given that big wheels make for a faster machine then why havent sportsbikes gone down that road?...there is a surplus of power on most sportsbikes so getting moving wouldnt be an issue....in fact in motorcycle racing a 16.5" wheel is often used, this goes against what the 29er brigade are saying surely.
....however, mountain bikes (and their components) are fairly cheap to produce and although the top end stuff is expensive most of it is a reasonable price. Given that its not too much of a financial stretch for someone to change their mountain bike on fairly regular basis it makes sense for the industry to have 26", 650b and 29" bikes to choose from....cheap to produce and easy to push on the buying public....a constant revenue stream....too cynical?
From the two biggest mountain bike races this year (World Champs and Olympics) a 26er won one and a 29er the other....and this year a 650b/27.5" bike took its first World Cup win too....i'd wager its more about the rider given the mixed results of all wheel sizes.
Deviant - you answered your own question in your post - for motorbikes, larger wheels are used off road, where larger diameters is an advantage for rough ground. Smaller wheels work better for track racing motorbikes as the surface is smoother - no need for the larger wheels , also less wind resistance and frontal area which will be factors in the much higher speeds on racing circuits.
Its only a larger front that is used off road, the rear is still 17"....the motorcycle equivalent of a 69er if you like is the norm for off road motorcycling.
I was just pointing out that the standard line trotted out by the 29er evangelists is that big wheels are just faster....if that was simply the case then in racing where absolute speed is the aim then why have motorbikes stuck with 17" and 16.5" wheels?....as you said there are other factors to take into account and its the same for mountain bikes....only a complete bellend would by a crap 29er over a good 26er just because it has big wheels....the complete bike is the key, good components, geometry etc will make more of a difference than simply wheel size.....and of course rider fitness and skill has a massive influence.
So the marketing isn't working?..
[thinks up new strategy]
Looook into my eyes...not around the eyes......
Stick an Apple logo on every 29er component....they'll sell like hot cakes.
Going back to pussywillows original comment
"Fed up of the way the bike industry is going, forcing it in our faces that we must move with the times and buy a 29r!!! If they're that good then why have they only just started to take off??"
The thing is they have taken off in America. Big style. In fact they have been taking off for more than five years to the point where now 29er tyre sales outstrip 26ers. As a country we are so far behind the industry. Go to a XC race in America and you will only see a handfull of 26er bikes. The opposite in this country.
Sales in this country are on the increase and eventually we will be in the same position as our overseas cousins where 29ers dominiate, whether that is for bad or good that is what will happen.
Lets stop resisting change and go wih it. Afterall, we were about five years behind the Americans when it came to full suspension and look whats happened now!
And American riders are ripping up the xc scene......?.
I like the fact that my bike choice pisses so many people on the internet off.
i'll pick up a 29er in about 18 months when all the people who claim they are savior of mountainbiking have put them on ebay to buy 650b bikes because bikeradar have been paid to deem 27.5 the new holy grail .
My point andyruss is not which is fastest but the way we will eventually accept the market. A great deal of bike brands come from America, it goes without saying that they dictate what happens and we follow slowly behind. 29ers are established there, not long till it'll be the common thing to buy.
www.followingthechainline.blogspot.com
Re the motorbike thing, smaller wheels are used by sportsbikes because they turn faster (I think Honda fireblades even went to 16" fronts in a bid to get them turning in faster). Off road bikes have a 21" front to help them roll over the rough stuff easier. So called 'adventure tourers' or all rounders if you prefer have 19" wheels to give a good compromise of both.
I recently returned to mtb'ing and have discovered I enjoy long distance enduro type riding. But when I went to buy a new bike, I was adamant I wasn't going to fall for the 29" thing. If i'm honest, the main reason was because I didn't like the look of the big wheels. However, after seeing them in the flesh with a Large frame rather than Medium, I was sold. It still all boils down the the engine and the brain though so now I've got to get fit enough to do this justice 😉
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Initial off road forays show that it's really hard to make an unbiased opinion after reading pages of tripe on the internet about it.
However, I can confirm that yes, it is slower to turn in but the stability through bog-wet ruts and muddy tracks is amazing! On road climbing is no different really but off road it's such a leap ahead than my old bike, I have no idea which characteristics are to do with the chassis and which are to do with the wheels. All I know is that it is lush to ride and I couldn't care less what size the wheels are 🙂
jezandu you use America as your bench mark fair enough but l don't ride in the good role USA l ride in the Scottish highlands. 29ers were built for the mass market of America were the majority of trails are long and flat. Most Americans will never ride a tight twisty single track and have no wish to. You also use the USA xc scene to back up your claims and then say its not about being fastest,sorry on the xc scene that is the only thing that matters and my point is despite a five year head start on us they have produced no riders setting the world alight in fact all wheel size have prod used world cup winners. I don't see why l would embrace what l feel l don't need just because it comes uncle Sam.
Want proof that its marketing led?
Take a look at emily batty's bike
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Lets stop resisting change and go wih it. Afterall, we were about five years behind the Americans when it came to full suspension and look whats happened now!
hmmm America hey!
in one sense do we have and ride the same style of riding as them?
The stw masive talking rubbish.... Again. 😀
What utter shite to say we must follow the trend and accept that that's the way it's going!!
Will I ride a 29er...no! Have I rode one... Yes, I agree with the op that they're not what I would class mountain bikes but that is my opinion, i would not want to ride a 29er on the trails I ride! Maybe they could be advantageous on a trail centre, but then again a cycle x bike would be in my eyes! The worrying thing for me is that this trend is going to wipe out 26ers cos the average mountain biker prefers them! And that is the damage marketing is doing in my eyes.
The worrying thing for me is that this trend is going to wipe out 26ers cos the average mountain biker prefers them!
The second hand market is going to be absolutely awash with 26ers the next couple of years, I wouldn't worry about it, you'll have your pick.
Lets all go back to Ford Model T's!
I like choice and as a preference I like 29ers never had any marketing thrown at me, just tried it several years ago and prefered it. Oh and on some extremely techical descents today guess what I didn't die! I did happen to see some guys on 26ers making a lash of it though, coinsidence though.
No one is wrestling the money out of your wallet saying you must have a 29er, just get used to the fact that in 5yrs your 26er will be considered niche and you'll be cool again unlike all us lemmings on 29ers
andyruss I think you miss understand me a bit. I never said anything to suggest that being fast during an xc race is not important. I just don't care which bike is fastest 29er 650b or 26er that is always down to the rider more than wheel size and is personal to where you ride. But remember the biggest bike companies just as trek, giant, specialised, kona and Cannondale are dropping 26ers from their range as in America there has become less demand and the 29er more accepted. This will be forced on us, we are just slow to pick up with the market. Full sus was exactly the same. Europeans were behind and resisted the change but the movement came from America. The fact they are rubbish at racing has nothing to do with it. They seem to get better results than us.
Oh and id be very surprised that in country so vast compared to ours that they don't have twisty trails in abundance.
I hate to break it to folks but the idea that everyone in the UK that buys a mountain bike is off riding sweet singletrack every day is a complete red herring. Most are bought by folk that will do not much more than ride on the streets, canal tow paths and old railway lines. For that application the hybrid/29er makes a lot more sense.
In 10 years, 26" wheeled bikes will be a specialist purchase, much like 20" is now. Choice will be a lot less and not all manufacturers will bother with them.
29ers were built for the mass market of America were the majority of trails are long and flat.
Seriously. I've seen some daft things on STW but that has to be up near the top. 😆
Want proof that its marketing led?Take a look at emily batty's bike
Or they're so good even short people like them 😛
Sorry to dig this up.....I was just wondering, after 9months, have any of the big wheel haters succumbed?
Be honest now!
I bet pussywillow has.......!
I like your straight talking style PW!
🙂
If it helps, my Mrs said she'd never ride one, "they look funny" "too slow through the twisties" etc. she borrowed a friends Epic the other day as hers was broken., came back from the ride and ordered one! case closed.
Only half believed them then the next new thing came along, but I still wasn't sure of that either, so I now have a 26" wheel frame, with 29" front and 27.5 rear. So everything is covered 😉
so I now have a 26" wheel frame, with 29" front and 27.5 rear. So everything is covered...
...apart from suspension. But clearly you have no interest in that! 😉
26= smaller French, 27.5= fuller but perky, 29er= two zeppelins in a dead heat race, all are fun! I've gone the zeppelin route. 😉
[url= http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3684/9464791186_6033aee17e.jp g" target="_blank">
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/55204994@N03/9464791186/ ]photo (2)[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/55204994@N03/ ]Loco Tuning[/url], on Flickr
Rides quite nicely, rear shock will be shortened a bit to lower bb if a bit too 'top heavy' but running a fair bit of static sag at the moment.
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[url= http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7425/9021138547_e6d7334490.jp g" target="_blank">
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/55204994@N03/9021138547/ ]photo (2) - Copy[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/55204994@N03/
😉
Ha!
Luddites.....embrace the clown wheel!
I have had one for about 10 months now and won't be going back!
If 29ers are middle class count me in.
29ers still look rubbish. Seat Tube / Top tube juntion should not be significantly lower than the top of the rear tyre, its just wrong.
I rode Snakebites 650b, couldnt really tell any difference apart from long stem and narrow bars and on measuring tyre against tyre there was practically no difference.
My car has 15" wheels (had to check)
What size wheels does your car have?
15" need to be an inch or two bigger to fill the arches really, it's going in for 'work' in the next couple of weeks 8)
The argument for changing to 29" is that it makes it all smoother and faster, and a similar debate raged 10 years ago as full suss elbowed hardtails aside with exactly the same argument. And that's where my problem with the 29 format lies. I shelved my full susser after I realised how bored I was becoming with the trail centre and drove roads around here. Going back to a 26 hardtail brought the trails to life again.
That's partially an admission that hardtails and 26" wheels make things...more challenging(?) but it's also about acknowledging the fact that what makes MTBing so engaging is the sheer level of physical control involved. You could convert to a BMX or unicycle on the trails of course, but they would place greater limitations the terrain you could ride.
So, full suss and 29" is all about increasing speed and smoothness, but that's not entirely what makes MTBing so interesting.
Holy thread resurrection!
I'm still on 26 inch wheels partly because I'm happy with them and partly because I couldn't afford new forks, wheels and tyres if I was to swap. Although my new frame can take 650b by changing the drop outs.
The 29er thing doesn't bother me that much because it did kind of happen organically and grew whereas the 660b thing seems really forced and even seems to be affecting the 29er movement (Giant). To be honest I'd rather enjoy my current bike than get my knickers in a twist over it (I have expressed concerns about 26er stuff getting phased out quickly but I'm now just going to bury my head in the sand and ride what I've got).
I dint see the point in ranting about marketing because the industry has always done it...forks, v brakes, full sus, disc brakes etc. Doubt it'll ever change either.
ignore.
mjsmke - MemberWhat size wheels does your car have?
17s. But I could fit anything from 15 to 18 without any fuss, so...
mangatank - MemberSo, ... 29" is all about increasing speed and smoothness, but that's not entirely what makes MTBing so interesting.
no, i bought a 29er because 26" bikes look chuffing ridiculous, i wanted a new bike, and i wanted it to look good.
shallow? - yes, but for the first time since i was 12, i've got a bike that fits me.
bumps are still bumps, a nasty square edge rock will still pinch-puncture/dingarim, you still need to pick your lines.
I ride both - what does this make me?!
If I'm going to a trail centre with lots of jumps, berms, switchback corners etc, then it's 26" all the way. If I'm doing a long distance ride or event like a 12 hour, then its 29er.
The size of my grin after riding my Soul or Reaction GTC is broadly similar. They ride differently and do different things well. Both make me happy.
The FS still scares the beejayzus out of me on the right day.
I ride both - what does this make me?!
650b, silly.
Haven't you been paying attention?
I have a few 26" bikes and a 29er as experiment in this new-fangled devil's work. In reality, of course they're both going to have their plusses and minuses. The 29er has had most use over the summer, but I put that down in part to the dry conditions which play to its rolling abilities. One of its worst traits though is to make other bikes feel flipping weird. It's really odd.
shallow? - yes
shallow - yes.
I love the set up on my 26er and have been riding off road for 20 years. I've also had 'mind altering' training sessions.
I'm still crap.
I cant help but feel that a 29er will make me faster/enjoy the trails more.
If I dont improve in the next 20 years then mebbe i'll give one a go..
I rode a 29er for the first time the other week, a very nice Scott Spark (thanks BW cycles!). I was expecting it to be significantly different to my Anthem X, but do you know what? Most of the time, it was hard to tell. It was a bit better over open bridleways and loose climbs, but felt duller to ride. It tracked better on a rocky downhill but it had an oversize headset and through-axle, which my Anthem doesn't.
I wonder how many people would know what size wheels their bike had if we could somehow devise a test where you could see the trail but not the bike you're riding?