I recently decided to try to master the art of re-proofing. I’ve failed miserably every previous time, but I admit that I never really got to grips with it. But last Christmas, I asked for and received a Rab Kinetic, which was always advertised as needing regular reproofing. So my experimentation began.
Now, I confess that it’s too early to be really confident, but I’m hoping that this time, I may have actually succeeded. My first attempt was with Nikwax spray on re-proofed. But my goodness, it stank of vinegar. My next attempt was with Grangers spray on reproofing. This seems (for now at least) to be the ticket. There is still a vague smell, but it is much less pronounced. And as far as I can see, the water-proof-ness seems to be there. It certainly beads initially.
One key point I’ve noticed in this experiment, that I missed in my previous failed attempts, is the tumble drying at low temperature.
So the Rab Kinetic + Grangers + tumble drying seems to be a success.
what about you guys? Successes? Failures?
Imo, it's always been that any attempt to 'reproof' a garment through a refreshed DWR is just a sticking plaster over the inevitable.
The 'new' DWR's that are less environmentally damaging are both less effective and less durable in my experience.
That said, I too find Graingers spray on and warm tumble the best solution.
That and save for a new jacket/trousers/etc
And I have always thought that tumble drying is silly thing to do for clothes with any membranes. ‘Activating proofing’ is easy to do with regular ironing iron, set on sensible temperature.
So, that’s interesting. Im terrified of ironing my expensive Rab jacket. And that woudl be a fair amount of hassle (since the washing machine, and the reproofing spray etc is in the garage). But tumble drying it at low heat is very simple, since the tumble drier is right beside where I wash the jacket and spray the reproofer.
And from memory, the reason I tumble dry is that is what is suggested on the Rab website video about reproofing.
(in fact, thinking about it, I’ve had success in revitalising the DWR on my Rab jackets by simply tumble drying it. But after a few times, of course it needs a full re-proof).
Interested in the ironing, not heard of doing that before as we don't have a tumble dryer.
If I understand this stuff correctly, the “heat activating” by tumble drying or ironing was only for reproofing with PFCs. Hopefully you’re not using them (yes they work well but asbestos made better brake pads too) so leave it to drip dry.
If you’re having trouble reproofing a garment, wash it really really well, make sure there is no grease, oil or dirt in the fabric. Stains don’t matter but actual deposits do. Then make sure that all the detergent is gone by washing with soap flakes or tech wash and rinsing thoroughly. If the fabric is contaminated the new DWR will not stick and you’re wasting your efforts.
When you think you need to reproof the problem is usually a build-up of dirt stopping the water repellency, not the DWR having worn out. Clean it with soap flakes etc (not detergent) and the DWR will come back, and you can do this quite a few times before you need to actually reproof.
Again, that’s interesting. Im going by the Rab website (since I bought a Rab jacket). This is the page I was guided by:
and I can attest that tumble drying does reactivate the beading capability. As does spraying with the spray-on reproofer. But in my limited experience, the beading does not return without the tumble drying. I tried the spray-on reproofer, and the wash in re-proofer. And neither worked much at all, without the tumble drying afterwards.
but I’ve read recently that with some brands (Endura) tumble drying actually damages the jacket. So im not saying that tumble drying (or ironing) works with every jacket.
My old Endura jacket had a label that said regular ironing was recommended, but I suspect that was back in days of PFCs.
I just got some Grangers Wash and Repel which says you should tumble dry or iron after application - it's PFC free. I don't have a tumble dryer for environmental reasons, so I used the iron and it seems to work, although I put it on minimum and I suspect it might be better a little hotter - but I don't know what a 'sensible temperature ' is, or even how to find out how hot the iron is.
Grangers offer a service where they will wash and reproof for you
Likewise, RAB have a reproofing service - their repair centre recently opened up near me (Northwich) and by all accounts it’s a great service - apparently they’re happy to wash/proof other brands - they also have an outlet store there that’s well worth a visit!
Sadly this all sounds like witchcraft. There are so many opinions and what if's and there are no clear set of circumstances when to and agreed method to complete. Aaaam oot.
Timely thread, I too am interested. I'm not convinced that I've ever had a garment nearly as good as it was new after a wash. Either in terms of how much rain it would resist or how long until it needed another reproofing.
I've used this in the past at the reccomendation of my local bike shop:
Generally ironing afterwards as the garments all say strictly no tumble drying on the label. If I'm particularly keen, I'll run a cotton cycle in the washing machine with no detergent first (useful for the dog bedding / towels), to reduce any residue in the machine.
I've both a bike waterproof(ish) jacket that's about as waterproof as a teabag these days and a workwear softshell that I'd like to keep me drier.
About the reproofing service….if this was something which was only needed once per year, I can imagine going for it. But if I’m using my Rab Kinetic in the way I bought it for - it’s going to get really dirty and need washed regularly. What I understand is that it will need reproofed every few rides. What was “every few” mean? Im assuming 4-6. That’s why I decided to grapple with reproofing myself.
I have to say, the variety of opinions is confusing. But for me, using Grangers and a low heat tumble dry every 4 rides is not a significant problem. And so far, it seems to renew the water repellency and breathability ok. Only time will tell if this continues.
I guess my view on weatherproofing and MTBs is that when it's wet it's also muddy. And rain is often not heavy enough to need a full waterproof when you're doing something as energetic as MTBing. And actual waterproofs are therefore hot, lacking in breathability and overkill in terms of how good they are at keeping rain out.
So rather than wear a waterproof jacket, a windproof or softshell is a better bet 90% of the time - keep the waterproof in your pack for when you need it. The weather is milder down south where I live (and mostly ride) and despite riding whatever the weather I only wear a waterproof jacket a few times a year at most. I don't bother trying to keep the windproof and softshell water repellent, there's just too much mud! The waterproofs (one tiny packable one, one big one) are kept in better condition because they're hardly worn, so they work better when needed.
I can attest that tumble drying does reactivate the beading capability. As does spraying with the spray-on reproofer. But in my limited experience, the beading does not return without the tumble drying. I tried the spray-on reproofer, and the wash in re-proofer. And neither worked much at all, without the tumble drying afterwards.
but I’ve read recently that with some brands (Endura) tumble drying actually damages the jacket. So im not saying that tumble drying (or ironing) works with every jacket.
With old school DWR treatments, the heating basically reflowed polymer chains over the fabric's fibres, or something like that. Then, for a while, the likes of Gore, Nikwax etc, decided that heating wasn't needed - possibly because it complicated whole procedure, but in the last couple of years, heating is back and ime works.
The problem with tumble drying is that it's mildly abrasive that's where the fluffy residue comes from, and, if the thermostat on the drier malfunctions, can potentially overheat the garment and melt plastic components / damage reflective etc. The advantage of ironing is that you can at least see what's going on.
My take on the Rab Kinetic, fwiw, is that even when new it sogs out pretty fast, which makes it great for showery weather and as a very water resistant softshell, but not so great for sustained downpours, but that's just my personal experience of the stuff.
Likewise, RAB have a reproofing service - their repair centre recently opened up near me (Northwich) and by all accounts it’s a great service - apparently they’re happy to wash/proof other brands - they also have an outlet store there that’s well worth a visit!
That is good to know, Northwich isn't too far
I've only managed to get reasonable success in the last couple of years, and that was with tumble drying:
1) Wash with Tech Wash or equivalent on the machines dedicated 'outdoor wear' setting (which is probably the same as the wool/delicates setting)
2) Wash again with wash-in reproofer on the same setting
3) Tumble dry on delicates setting
@BadlyWiredDog: I’ve had the Rab Kinetic for about a year now, and I have to agree with you. I was attracted by the excellent breathability, which I agree is better than very good. But in the few times where I’ve had the jacket in prolonged heavy rain; yes, it wets out.
So nowadays, I really use it like a very rain-resistant softshell. And I have to admit, it’s excellent at that. But if I was going to be in heavy rain for 2-3 hours, I’d choose something else.
I’ve had several brands of jacket and trousers and for a while just cleaning them and tumble drying them sorted out the DWR.
I’ve used NikWax (spray or washin) for years with success, als has Grangers spray which also seems to work on most things.
My Emeegency Services issued Keela jacket uses Fabsil spray which is basically a silicon spray (I think).
I have a Bertha’s Goretex pro jacket that’s probably 10-15 years old that is still going strong (only gets used for mountaineering, hiking and day to day life and not riding) with no delamination and has only had NikWax and tumble dry to sort it out.
Paramo fan, here.
100% success.
It’s all about preparation.
the residue from the regular detergents in your washing machine inhibit the effectiveness of the re-proofer.
youll need to amass all those towels and bedding that can be washed at near boiling point.
wash them over and over until you can’t see any soap suds in the mix.
congratulations. Your machine should now be clean enough for the nikwax detergent and reproofer.
i don’t own a tumble drier, so I just leave the garments to ‘steep’ in the solution near the end of the wash cycle, and then run them at a slow spin to rinse.
you could always install a secondary washing machine just to reproof garments, as a cottage industry.
^^
That is until all the cottage reproofing firms succumb to the vagaries of the Kondratiev cycle, and are forced to work inside vast satanic mills at the behest of some oligarch within the tory party😂😂😂
Unsure I've had success...the clothing does appear to have improved proofness, but they never come out cleaner...they mud stains are still there and I suspect this reduces effectiveness.
I think my reproofing part works, just my cleaning bit isn't, so I don't think I'm as successful as I'd hoped.
If you are reproofing is there an argument for not really worrying about what detergent you use if you want to try & get rid of the mud stain with a harsher detergent? Or will this kill the jacket?
We use non-bio for everything & generally hose off the jackets & rarely wash them.
Successfully reproofed my Endura jacket by hand in the kitchen sink using the Nikwax Tech Wash and proofer.
Also my hands. Couldn't get them wet for 2 days
If the warnings about cleaning and reproofing didn't go on so much about not using normal washing up powder as it is harsh then if be giving everything a going over at 30c and then do a reproof wash...
As such, my concern is I ruin the clothing completely...isn't cheap and it needs to last a good while.
My jackets do seem to work well after a wash, my trousers not so successfully.
I've only really had success when reproofing by hand, in a sink or basin*. I'll then usually heat, either by a cool tumble (once the garment has almost drip-dried) or using an iron.
* as above, wear gloves.