I'm struggling with my Planet X Pro carbon- it just feels wooden/doesn't feel great. I will readily admit the bike I had before was steel so had abit of character but I also remember test riding a Defy and loving it.
Before I start spending serious money buying a different bike- could it be simply try different wheels?
I'm current running 2x25c tyres on FSA Team 30 wheels. The change wouldn't be carbon wheels or seriously light either. It'd be 250gms lighter and more than likely Ultegra or similar wheels.
Thoughts?
What tyres?
Continental Ultra Sports
well its definitely easier to replace the wheels than swap the tyres!
I went from 23c GrandPrix's to these. Do you think its as simple as tyres?
Yeah, heavy and rubbish. But it's all in your head anyway and won't make a blind bit of difference. 😉
Half decent wheels wont be better/feel better?
I've been through this and to be honest I haven't really felt the differnce between sets of wheels. I changed from some PX model B wheels which were minimal spokes, stiff and light to Ultegra hubs on Open Pro's 36h and didn't feel much if any difference. Maybe a bit of a smoother ride on the Open Pro/Ultegra wheels but I might have been imagining it to be honest.
Changing tyres can make a bigger difference. I've tried a few and I keep going back to Vittoria Rubino Pro's which seems to be grippy, light, supple and puncture resistant all at the same time.
The biggest difference I have ever felt is changing framesets. I loved my Specialized Secteur but then I changed to a Tricross and it felt awful, dead feeling. Hard to describe really but I think I know what you mean! I swapped to a kinesis Racelight and that's better but not as good as the Specialized Secteur.
Then, one day, I got a 1990's Trek steel road bike for a friend and after I restored it for him I had a ride on it. Oh wow, it was so nice. More flexible yes, heavier yes, but such a joy to ride. I hated giving it to him!
So the upshot is...... I'm buying a Genesis steel road bike (TDF) soon. It doesn't matter what things weigh or what spec the gears are IMHO. People are brainwashed into carbon carbon carbon, lighter wheels, faster faster faster! BUT let's not kid ourselves, we aren't fast even compared to a lowly Cat 3 road racer so saving a few grams here and there or buying fancier stuff doesn't really make much difference to most people, even though they might tell themselves it does (with help from the media/shops/friends!).
Oh, and additionally, get a bike that'll fit proper mudguards. Makes riding so much nicer round where we live!!
Quite glad i didn't bother buying the pro carbon and went for the RT-58 Alloy and saved myself £400 for kit
The bike however felt 'like a road bike' rigid, stiff and bloody fast compared to riding full sus machines for years!
I'd still be interested if wheels transform your ride though...
I've been looking at a Campagnolo Zonda Wheelset which would hopefully make a difference??
oh an as far as tyres are concerned, I've used Conti Gator skins since day one and never had any trouble for over 2000 miles
You could probably let a bit of air out. But you'll still find something to be fickle about.
I've settled on 90psi.You could probably let a bit of air out.
Not enough. Put more in, makes the roads come alive.
Sorry that you're not loving the Pro Carbon.
Went to Rotherham store in Feb to try one - really wanted to like it but it did nothing for me.
Bought a Cube Agree instead - makes the road 'come alive' 😉
Hope new wheels do the trick.
My SL Pro Carbon came with PX model c wheels, and i certainly wouldn't call the ride wooden, it zips along compared to any other bike i've ridden (not loads admittedly) but the wheels did flex and rub on the brake blocks with out of the saddle efforts, i'm 14 stone so not skinny roadie material, and i swapped out the wheels for some Fulcrum Racing 5's, and whilst no lighter they are most definitely stiffer and so the ride is a bit more rewarding.
Saving a couple of hundred grams on wheels will probably make the bike feel a bit faster but i don't know if it will cure your perception of woodeness.
it just feels wooden/doesn't feel great
This is what people say when they don't really know what they mean or they want to justify spending some cash.
What does wooden/not great actually mean? How do you expect it to feel?
It doesn't matter what things weigh or what spec the gears are IMHO. People are brainwashed into carbon carbon carbon, lighter wheels, faster faster faster! BUT let's not kid ourselves, we aren't fast even compared to a lowly Cat 3 road racer so saving a few grams here and there or buying fancier stuff doesn't really make much difference to most people, even though they might tell themselves it does (with help from the media/shops/friends!).Oh, and additionally, get a bike that'll fit proper mudguards. Makes riding so much nicer round where we live!!
Yep. The overwhelming majority of people riding road bikes don't race, but yet they still feel the need to buy "race" bikes. Bikes which may be fast, but aren't comfy, durable, or able to take full guards. For almost everyone on a road bike these days, it's either a commuter (Guards, comfort, reliability) or a few hours out in the lanes on a weekend (Guards, comfort, reliability). Then again, you'd lose bragging rights at the [s]golf club[/s] sportive if you didn't go full race.
Did you get the right size? 😆
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we aren't fast even compared to a lowly Cat 3 road racer
Have you raced Cat 3? 🙂
I think you're onto a bit of a loser here. It's a cheap carbon frame designed to be stiff with race geometry. Reckon you're trying to turn it into something it isn't.
Edit: ... and what CF said.
Try changing the tyres before you throw proper money at the wheels. Some nice, high TPI count tyres like Veleflex Master or Vittoria Open Corsa will make a pretty reasonable difference, certainly compared to Ultra Sports.
Changing wheels on my Planet X Sl did help a bit, went from 105/Open Pro rear and Spec own-brand front to CK R45/Open Pro both ends. Definitely nicer but didn't make as much of a difference as decent tyres did.
Veloflex Master or Vittoria Open Corsa
This is good advice, but you'll need something tougher for winter. Vittoria Open Paves are simply amazing as a winter tyre. Incredibly supple and grip like nothing else.
Bloody hell Hora, you're really making a meal out of road cycling. Just ride the damn thing. You'll need to spend a lot on wheels to get anything measurable better than your current wheels.
You could probably let a bit of air out.
I've settled on 90psi.
He wasn't talking about the tyres.
Going tubeless made a big difference to mine, but now got a trek madone and the comfort and feel is in another league. However if I did decide to do a few crits next year it will be on my Planet X as it feels fast and wouldn't be as big an issue if I crash. It's a cheap carbon frame that does the job, but is not a comfy bike at all.
ADD
cheers.Vittoria Open Paves
Add what?
Making a meal of roading' - I/everyone was/is like this when they start mountain biking. Imagine starting out mountain biking and buying a Lapierre Zesty- you've lucked in. Roadwise I didn't do this. I went cheap frame/fork.. Same if you buy a cheaper framed/forked mountain bike etc as your first bike. It aint a bad bike- however the Defy felt so much nicer. As did a Supersix but I didn't have supersix budget at the time..
Why didn't you buy the Defy?
Yeah, why not, can get full guards on there too.
Just to go against the grain of the thread.
IME shimano factory wheels are much more comfortable than the cheep deap-ish OEM wheels my bike came with.
And the chinese continental tyres like the ultra sports aren't too bad these days, I've got sport contacts on one of my bikes, they're certainly more comfortable than the GP4seasons they replaced.
Just ride the damn thing.
This +1 though. Road riding in winter is misery and pain, for everything else there's audax* bikes. I suspect 90% of your problems would be solved by a kaffenback (comfortable, less racey, no deep section rims/tubes/forks), but you'd find another 90% to complain about (weight, stiffness) and go back to an RT57, then to a CDF, then a Deffy, then a Escapade, then a Synapse, a CAAD10, a thorn Audax, etc.
*Cross, gravel, commuter, tourer, roubaix, whatever.
I'm no expert but I tried a few bikes and I like the FSA 30 wheels, seem nicer than the standard Shimano Imo.
I settled on the RT-58 Alloy as the spec was great for the money, I never feel beaten up after a ride.
This +1 though. Road riding in winter is misery and pain, for everything else there's audax* bikes.
This +2. My winter trainer is an old Alu Trek frame with some 105/OpenPro wheels shod with 4 seasons. Does the job, and I'm not riding it for pleasure 🙂 Night and day compared to the sunny day race bike though.
Can you try and few other bikes? Swap wheels with mates for a ride or two? See if you can narrow down what it is you don't like about yours.
What do you use the bike for? And how do you want it to feel/behave given what you use it for?
Most of us go out for 20-40 mile road rides and so long as we can get up and down hills without it feeling as if the thing is trying to kill us we are happy. If you are time trialling, hill climbing or even road/circuit racing your needs may be a bit more specific, but actually only once you are pretty durn good.
Why didn't you buy the Defy?
Dazzled by the full Ultregra kit and the cycle show review on the Pro X.
Still starting out in any cycle discipline is a school day at the start.
Nice touring frame and swap the parts over?
Handbuilt wheels are what you need.
I pity the poor wheelbuilder.
DIY, will keep him busy for a while...
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... having trued a few over the years, having a go at my first build as soon as I have a spare night 🙂
hora - Member - Quote
Still starting out in any cycle discipline is a school day at the start.
This is a very fair comment. My advice to you would be to learn to live with what you are currently riding and all its little foibles. Once you have a bit more experience you'll be better informed when/if it comes to your next upgrade or bike. I just think you're rushing into change for changes sake at the moment.
It's very possible that what you think is a good change now, you'll subsequently regret as you get more used to road riding.
ADD/taking the piss- ah one of those types of posters, similar to those who post 'first world problems'.
Like everything, you focus on your hobby/product until you get it feeling right for you.
That poster probably rides what hes given.
until you get it feeling right for you
You never do though, you dont think anything you'v ever bought is any good, Blur 4x, Turners, Marzocchis, the list is endless. We have all been watching you for years and wondering whats next. Good entertainment, keep it up 😆
[url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/giant-defy-composite-1-or-cannondale-synapse-105 ]Giant Defy Composite 1 or Cannondale Synapse 105?[/url] You were so close!
Making a meal of roading' - I/everyone was/is like this when they start mountain biking. Imagine starting out mountain biking and buying a Lapierre Zesty- you've lucked in. Roadwise I didn't do this. I went cheap frame/fork.. Same if you buy a cheaper framed/forked mountain bike etc as your first bike. It aint a bad bike- however the Defy felt so much nicer. As did a Supersix but I didn't have supersix budget at the time..
Seriously fella, you're riding a bike that would've been a Pro's dream a few years ago and has a race winning palmares as long as your arm. Just ride the chuffing thing and stop trying to get to an impossible point.
until you get it feeling right for you.
Or you realise that what you thought was right either isn't or maybe isn't realistic. I've seen many new roadies spent time and money making their bikes 'more comfortable' when ultimately just getting used to riding a road bike was what it took.
I'd recommend a skills course.
You never do though, you dont think anything you'v ever bought is any good, Blur 4x, Turners, Marzocchis, the list is endless. We have all been watching you for years and wondering whats next. Good entertainment, keep it up
Yeah yeag, cos you all ride round on a rigid steel bike that you've owned since year dot and you never swap and change/buy new bikes 😉
I'm merely a sacrificial figurehead for all you serial gear-swappers to hide behind 
I'd recommend binning those UltraShite tyres first off, heavy and puncture prone.
I bought the PX Pro Carbon back in February which came with FSA Team 30 Wheelset. The wheels weren't good to be honest, flexed, slow to pick up and generally felt sluggish. I bought a set of Fulcrun Racing 5 wheels in June and there's a massive difference. Slightly lighter, noticeably stiffer and more responsive. The other thing that made a difference was changing the San Marco Ponza saddle. That was one hell of an uncomfortable piece of rubbish. It's only me second road bike but is far superior to the CAAD 8 Tiagra I replaced.
I concur on that.San Marco Ponza saddle.
I bought the PX Pro Carbon back in February which came with FSA Team 30 Wheelset. The wheels weren't good to be honest, flexed, slow to pick up and generally felt sluggish. I bought a set of Fulcrun Racing 5 wheels in June and there's a massive difference. Slightly lighter, noticeably stiffer and more responsive.
Thats good to hear. TBH I will need a second wheelset for my rat/commuter bike build- I've got a old shabby steel frame/fork/BB IOCC brand? that I can put the FSA's on so double-win.
It's only me second road bike but is far superior to the CAAD 8 Tiagra I replaced.
Quite surprised by that. I'd have spent the money upgrading around the CAAD8 frame. Not ridden one but they seem to be highly rated.
Getting back to your original question. Some good wheels and tyres will make a difference, enough to transform the bike into something your happy with ? impossible to say, but they would be the thing that would make the most difference. you'd have to go up a few notches' not to something slightly better, but they'd be an investment that could go from bike to bike in the future.
I'd start at the beginning by putting some more psi in your current tyres, try anything over 105 front, 110 rear then experiment.
Winters here, waste of money chucking £'s at a new set of hoops,, just experiment with psi first and hack over the winter, once into March you will have another few months under your legs and then you'll probably find you'll want/need a new bike.
HTH
I'd start at the beginning by putting some more psi in your current tyres, try anything over 105 front, 110 rear then experiment.
Unless he's north of 16 stone, that is way too much. In 25mm tyres anything over 90psi is 'a lot'.
Quite surprised by that. I'd have spent the money upgrading around the CAAD8 frame. Not ridden one but they seem to be highly rated.
This is what I did with my CAAD4, got it perfect, and then the DA shifters died!
People usually trot out the line that the PXs are noodly (esp in big sizes) rather than being wooden (though I suppose they're probably not absolutely exclusive terms - more subjective bobbins 😀 )
I've had 2 of them (L & XL) and I didn't find either to fit either description; they're perfectly good-riding frames IMO
Get the wheels anyway Hora - I suppose they can go on your next frame if putting them on the PX fails to turn you on (if I were you, though, I'd make sure they have disc hubs)
Quite surprised by that. I'd have spent the money upgrading around the CAAD8 frame. Not ridden one but they seem to be highly rated.
As far as climbing is concerned there's not much in it, the PX is lighter so maybe just edges it. But it's descending where I found the biggest difference. I didn't realise how twitchy the CAAD 8 was until I rode the PX. Just point the PX and it goes there. I suppose it also helps that the Ultegra brakes on the PX are massively better than the Tiagra on the CAAD.
I changed the standard wheels on my Spesh Roubaix to some Prolite Braccianos after about 18 months. They made a very noticeable difference, especially climbing and getting up to speed. That was 6/7 years ago and as a sometime roadie I've changed nothing since. There are some Hope pro3/Mavic open pros on here somewhere at a decent price.
Cani just add that bikes/wheels aren't fast, its all about the rider! 😀
These? singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/hope-pro-3-road-wheels
Sold 🙁
at the risk of standing up for you, Hora,
i didn't particually like my Planet-X Pro Carbon either, first road bike for me, had one in 2010, 2011 ish, didn't do a huge amount of miles on it, but it had some weird vibrating/resonate issue on descents, could only take 1 bottle in a small,
my brother has one though, bought earlier this year he's done 3.5k on it and seems to like it, although he came from a Specialized Globe single speed hipster thing, and probably doesn't know any better
No, [url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/hope-mono-rs-shimano-11-speed-open-pro-wheelset ]these[/url]
I've seen many new roadies spent time and money making their bikes 'more comfortable' when ultimately just getting used to riding a road bike was what it took.
Got my first modern road bike after 10 years away, hated it for first 6 months, tolerated it for next 6, now is more or less all I ride.
It just takes time, the pX is hardly a dog - just let it break you then rebuild you 🙂
This is a very fair comment. My advice to you would be to learn to live with what you are currently riding and all its little foibles. Once you have a bit more experience you'll be better informed when/if it comes to your next upgrade or bike. I just think you're rushing into change for changes sake at the moment.It's very possible that what you think is a good change now, you'll subsequently regret as you get more used to road riding.
scotroutes-I think your good common sense may fall on deaf ears,hora seems to think that changing bits/spending money is the way to go compounded by the fact that he thinks he should have bought another bike and going by his serial MTB frame swapping once it's in his head that something isn't right then it's hard not to.I sort of understand that cos I'm sure we all get bugged by things that don't feel right but sometimes you need to persevere .What sort of mileage and riding are you doing on the PX hora?
The planet x is pretty good and fairly comfy. If I were you I'd ride it through winter and then change bits come next year.
There's quite a bit of 'odd' 'advice' in here! Hora, Wheels and tyres wise you can upgrade significantly and for not too much cash. The FSA 30s are not a great wheel. GP4000s and s2s are ace. 4 seasons also. As someone else has said Ultegra wheels are good.
Andyhilton - Member
There's quite a bit of 'odd' 'advice' in here! Hora, Wheels and tyres wise you can upgrade significantly and for not too much cash. The FSA 30s are not a great wheel. GP4000s and s2s are ace. 4 seasons also. As someone else has said Ultegra wheels are good.
If you're doing lots of miles over winter then it's probably not worth changing wheels just yet, unless of course you don't mind changing them again in a few months when they're worn out
I've never had a set of wheels wear out in a few months.
Congratulations? 😀
Change your tyres first, conti ultrasports are the bog standard OEM tyre you get on any bike built to fit a price point, see how GP4s might improve things.
Then think about the wheels, although I'd be inclined to keep the FSAs through winter, let them get utterly shagged out and when spring comes round invest in some ultegras perhaps, and it'll probably seem revelatory...
It's not bragging, it's a statement of fact. Unhappy with the ****y wheels you have? Change them now. They aint gonna wear out between now and April.
It's not bragging, it's a statement of fact. Unhappy with the ****y wheels you have? Change them now. They aint gonna wear out between now and April.
Do you have disc brakes?
If you ride up and down hills all winter then you can wear a set of rims out in a few months.
No. Not even on my CX bike. Or my race bike. Or winter bike. I have them on my 29er and one of my HTs. Mostly rim brakes though.
If you are wearing your brakes out going up hills, you're definitely doing something wrong. Going downhill...stop dragging your brakes! Wearing out rims in a few months...come on!
If you are wearing your brakes out going up hills, you're definitely doing something wrong. Going downhill...stop dragging your brakes! Wearing out rims in a few months...come on!
Over the past three weeks I've done 570 miles of commuting (47 miles a day, four days a week). 800 ish metres of climbing/descending per day, and one hell of a lot of traffic lights and traffic to stop for. Have you seen the weather? I fully expect to be replacing my rims (well, wheels) come April. YMMV.
Buying new rims now, at the start of another long wet mild winter* is the daftest advice ever *for this particular OP*
Tyres and MTFU or get rid.
*guaranteed.
If you really don't feel comfortable on it, why not stick it on ebay and see what you get for it. You can then get a 2nd hand defy or something you prefer.
Trouble with swapping bits out is you could end up throwing good money after bad.
But apart from it feeling "wooden", having slab sided forks that deflect the bike when it's in anything more than a mild breeze and having some odd sizing issues the bike sounds perfect.
As a parallel sort of experience, I bought a bargain bucket Giant OCR a few years back which was brutally harsh and came with some impressively heavy wheels as standard. In an effort to improve it, I bought some Bontrager Race X-Lites, which were decently light as replacements.
They did change the feel of the bike markedly in that it felt a lot zippier than before thanks to the prodigious weight loss at the wheels, but they didn't make a huge difference to the harsh ride of the frame. I ended up buying a much nicer Lynskey ti Planet X which is way nicer all round.
I don't know if that helps, I guess it depends on what you mean by 'wooden', but my take would be that you can add some more zip to the ride with lighter wheels, but if the frame has a defining characteristic, it'll still have it - my OCR was ace on smooth roads in Spain and awful on the local tarmac chunder in the Peak.
If I were you I'd change the tyres, ride the bike over the winter then make a call on if and what to change in the spring.
I doubt Hora will be riding 570 commuting miles in a 3 week period 8O. Most people just go out a couple of times a week in winter. No reason not to use good wheels for your Sunday winter ride. Getting away from town I normally go through a pair of pads in winter not a pair of rims.
"Like a circle in a spiral, like a wheel within a wheel
Never ending or beginning on an ever spinning reel
As the images unwind, like the circles that you find in
The windmills of your mind!"
Kinda sums it up 🙂
I doubt Hora will be riding 570 commuting miles in a 3 week period
commuting on a bike is hateful anywhere near urban/built up areas. Unless you commute somewhere that has great roads. No ta!
Open Pave's are brilliant tyres, make a huge difference to the feel of any bike I've put them on. However, from memory the clearances on the Pro Carbon aren't huge so they may not fit. Go 24mm but even then I think it'll be a tight fit, especially if you run crud race guards too.
Also, they wear out SUPER quick - mine are half way done and I'm on about 500 miles on them. My bro swears by conti's, maybe look at the 4 seasons or GP's. Anything with a high TPI count will make a difference, Vittorias run at 320tpi, so anything around that mark means they're much more supple and (IMO) are nicer to ride.
As for the frame itself - just ride it lots and get used to it. They're not the last word in comfort but then they're not mega expensive either. You could spend money on wheels, but you're better off just getting out and sticking loads of miles on what you have, replacing stuff when it wears out.
As for the suggestions about something less racey - I've tried a number of 'sportive' and all rounder bikes and found them awful - too upright, heavy, slow....
Wheres the best place to buy them from? There seems to be alot of CGII's than the later III's about.