[Closed] Pike spring rate puzzle

I'm 88kg and use the std spring, and still dont use the last inch either.

you arent trying hard enough....i get full travel out of mine.

It almost feels like too much compression damping - but the poplock is turned off. with the spring out there was a fair bit of compression damping felt.

Jambo - how heavy are you?

14st. i don't often get it but I try and bottom them out at least once a ride...

most people I know run extra firms and still find them selves bottoming out, and they ain't exactly heavy. Just gotta ride harder & faster!

Im not familiar with the Pikes, but are you sure that any oil levels are not too high?

Jambo - bottoming once a ride is how I define right spring rate - there is not enough sag either. You are a chunck heavier than me and ride harder I believe - stock spring? How much sag?

Jon. Whilst I admit to being a bit of a mincer Carn Ban Mor is fairly hard and fast. 2000 ft of rocky descent in 3 miles. Gt ladder drop is a fair old hight to landing as well.

Stoner - oil levers as per the manual - sealed cartridge damper not open bath anyway

I bought the forks secondhand so I am wondering if there is something odd with these or if they are all like that

stock spring and about 40mm of sag. I had them apart a couple of weeks ago becuase they werent feeling great. really simple to service.

Ta Jambo - I serviced mine not long ago - very simple as you say and rebuilt them with stock oil levels they were noticably smoother afterwards

curious. i found i could bottom my standard pikes out, and once i had i could do it pretty much at will, so opted to fit a firm spring, and am much happier with the forks, can just about use full travel ( but not bottom ) if i try ( or if i get things wrong! ). i weigh about 12st. oddly on my HT i run a standard spring on my revelations.

try this... roll along at about walking pace towards a slight compression while stood up! as your front wheel enters the compression similtaniously lock the front brake while pushing down as hard and quickly as you can. you'll get full travel, I guarantee it.. I can bottom my X-firms (2 pairs)on the flat easily. they're ok in use though.

I'll give it a try GW but I doubt it. It seems some folk answering this have the same experience as me and some don't. Curious. Its almost as if there is an overenthusiastic hydraulic bump stop so compression damping is far too high in the last inch or two of the stroke. I wonder if its in the machining tolerances or something.

I might try the soft spring

Give tim flooks a ring tomorrow, guaranteed he'll be able to help.

Adjust your gate settings and move your dial just off fully open or fully closed- this will have the desired affect (cant remember which way now) but full anti-clockwise on gate either gets you a firmer rate or full travel along with the dial being just off lockout or vice versa

Hora - poplock is off / minimum all the time.

TJ try the opposite with opposite of gate this time. It worked for me!

Hora - that just locks up the compression damping.

not full off/on- leave say a 1/5 on the dial. Trust me!!

Hora - that simply is not how it works - I think it is different on different models of pikes but on mine the poplock just increases the compression damping with a blowoff volve that is set for variable thresholds. You cannot get less compression damping than turning it all off

went for a ride last night and I can get most of the travel on the flat and all of it if I nose-bonk off a kerb. worth noting that thats not all of the stantions though but it is 140mm.

worth taking the spring out and seeing if they will cycle through 140mm without it.

Ta jambo - I have had the spring out and the fork will compress until no stanchion at all is showing which is 140 mm of movement as I measure it.

TJ, RS springs are, IME, always a bit under-rated. By that I mean that you'll probably need a softer spring than you think you will. I should be on an X-firm technically but firm is perfect for me.
It has to be said that I reckon that the last 5-10mm of the travel can be classed as 'for emergnecy use only' as that's bump-stop territory
I also think it depends a lot on the bike as well as pure rider weight. For instance a steeper angled bike will put more weight on the front than a slacker one, so it's not rocket science too guess the effect there.
🙂
One other thing - I have a mate who runs Pikes on his Heckler. He's lighter than me (13st-ish??) and he found the standard (Med) spring too heavy and went for a soft. He's a compulsive faffer though and will fit a different spring for different conditions, but it's a good example of what I mean

Have you actually properly checked what travel you are getting, or just looked at the dust/mud rings on the forks?

I'll just add that I don't think there is anything at all wrong with your fork. I reckon a standard spring is bang on for you, and one day you're gonna be glad of that extra inch!

(Fnarr-Fnarr!)

Also, cycling the fork with no spring in proves very little.

Peter - its more like 30mm or more unused - checked with a cable tie around the stanchion. So I am only gettting 110 mm of movement.

I have always been a believer in bottoming the fork once per ride in normal usage. There does seem to be a hydraulic bump stop tho in that last 10 mm.

I'm just a complusive faffer as well 🙂

I shall take it out this afternoon to see if I can torture it into full travel. I might put it on the tandem - that should beat it into submission

Sounds like a plan to me!
🙂

How much sag are you getting? I'm getting 20mm which seems not enough to me, but the fork feels perfect.

I think there's a slight possibilty that not all springs are created equal, so to speak, too....

fitted a ssoft to my GF's i am 12st couldn't get the last inch of travel no matter what i did... maybe it was due to oil level issues?

TJ, how much oil do you have in the lowers?

More than 15cc = hydraulic lock / massive ramp up

Peter - 20 mm.

retro - stock amounts and the fork cycles fine to full travel without a spring

retro - stock amounts and the fork cycles fine to full travel without a spring

If you've not changed it, that's fine. But just so you know having the spring out means the oil is not under pressure as it is when the cap is tightened on (it can freely move up inside the stanchion on u-turn coil forks).

It's just that I thought you mentioned raising the semi-bath oil height once before on here.

I'm 88kg and use the std spring, and still dont use the last inch either.

That's really odd, I'm now 85kg, on the X-Firm and still bottom it regularly. Firm is just about useable, I can bottom out normal springs just by bouncing the front wheel a bit while riding along.

Retro - I might check the oil volumes but I don't see how as an extra few mil in a fork with an internal volume of a couple of hundred ml wont make much difference.

there is certainly something odd going on here as some folk have the same experience as me and some don't. It might be lube oil in the fork I suppose.

TJ, at 20mm sag my brain tells me you should try a lighter spring, but seeing as my experience says that's the same as I'm running it leaves me floundering a bit. 😕
From what you're saying, if all the oil levels are correct, I'd be tempted to try a different spring if I could. Chucking £40 away on a soft spring is a bit of a gamble though.... Do you know anyone with another standard spring you could try? You could test my theory at least!
🙂

Me too peter - another reason why I don't think its oil levels is it was the same before I serviced it.

Are the rockshok springs a bit variable in strength? Its about the only thing I can think of. Seems a bit daft to have to go to the light spring which is for 15 kg less than I weigh.

Ta for your help here chaps

Are the rockshok springs a bit variable in strength? Its about the only thing I can think of.

I have a vague theory that they might be. It's based on little more than a funny feeling and the experiences I had with my coil Recons, and I'd love to test it out somehow.....
They shouldn't be though, really, should they?

Why do you need to get full travel on every ride though? I have never understood that comment. What if your ride/riding doesnt need all the travel?

in the alps the other week i was running my pikes with firm spring, never needed more travel and that was super rock fest most days, i was glad actually the firm spring was keeping the front end up and giving me a better feel on the bike, more confidence, enough absorption, plenty grip etc.

Do you 'need' the 140mm?

The point being mark that I might as well only have a 110 travel fork if all I am getting out of the 140 is 110. It also means that it is not as good at soaking up small bumps as it might be / not as supple as it might be. The front end is waaaaay to high with the fork wound out to 140 - only good for downhill. I normally run it at 11o mm and thus only get 80 mm travel

I just feel cheated 😈 and its annoying me

Good point well made TJ

It's been the bane of suspension forks since day 1 though.....

Get smaller forks then. Happy to help.

Just took it out for a test - by dint of being really brutal ( for me) - front wheel landing with the brake on off an 18" step, bouncing with all my weight on the bars, doing as Jambo suggested and breaking hard from 5 mph in a compression, bunny hop and land with the brake on and weight over the front ( all with my arms locked) I got 120 mm travel. No way would it bottom out tho

So perhaps I just need to ride a bit harder / ride the front more. The bike is very front light with the fork wound out and I am a big feartie. Perhaps I just need to eat more pies

Exactly the same for me. 80kg ish, standard spring, and they always have seemed a bit firm. I called TF about getting them serviced and they said I should probably be on a firmer spring for my weight.

Try another spring. Get one sh on ebay.

Ignore md - he's not been the same since he was at altitude 😉

Do you mean at high altitude al? One is always at an altitude of some sort - even me

aye ignore me. its the lack of oxygen for sure.

do you feel like you need the 140mm i.e do you feel the ride is compromised by not having it?

Not really I guess. However new forks are out of the question at the moment and anyway that would take us back to an earlier debate which had you nearly topping yourself IIRC. Namely - find me a cheap light fork with 110 mm travel and a 20 mm axle

TandemJeremy - Member
Do you mean at high altitude al? One is always at an altitude of some sort - even me

Of course I do, I speak normal relaxed English.

Try a softer spring. Surely it would help teh confidence on teh doonhills?

that was answered in about 1 post from me.

manitous....

Its nice to have the long fork for the downhills for sure

Ta all

i really want a 140mm with 36mm legs and 20mm bolt thru. thats what i want.

Get a lyric uturn then

thats the plan.... i waited too long to make my mind up and fishers have gone and sold out.