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you impeded following riders' progress.
The point of running techy bits is it can be quicker than riding it for some people
isn't it time XC evolved a little? (afterall riding and bikes have)
I think it is/has. I find it harder these days (unless it's bone dry)
I'm guessing you find it hard to fit your skils into XC racing, I'm the same, but from the other side of the fence.
You can't get upset with it, to a degree you have to accept it for what it is. But remember it's not all racing around a field edge anymore. Sadly you sound like a rider that's out of his time.
Things move on. When I was in my teens 20s and 30s all we has was road track and TT.
That said I have broken my fair share of bones through XC jey'ing.
So has GW, just not his own.
What's the TV?
The Trans Vesubienne - a famously technical multi-day stage race in France, which Juan has down as the epitome of what XC racing should be.
I have lowered my saddle at the top of a climb in an XC race without selfishly impeding anyone's progress but my own
With all due respect, you've presumably not raced XC at any reasonable level then - do that once a lap on a 4 lap race and you hand away a minute, which is rather a lot of time! Sure you have also missed the point if you're saying you'd not ride it with your saddle up?
Another thing to remember, XC will and should always favour the fitest/fastest riders. It is getting more technical, but it will have to stop short of becoming freeride.
And you have to respect those riders that got into XC when it was as it is now i.e like me....old and straight from the road, didn't even have a BMX or mountainbike in my youth.
So has GW, just not his own
If GW is a four foot nothing very angry female XC racer who floored me with her frame at a bottleneck, then yes we've met.
Edric 64 - Memberyou impeded following riders' progress.
The point of running techy bits is it can be quicker than riding it for some people
I believe you should have black grade obstacles with chicken runs with a few seconds penalty - and that anyone running a section must stand for a few seconds in a penalty box to ensure its slower than riding.
Make them put the bikes on their heads and spin around on the spot 10 times maybe
18 - 30s Catagory.
Whereby, disorientated, they ride straight back up the descent 😉
There are, however, occasions, where it is necessary to run: at a bottleneck when reaching the singletrack
Hmm.. so here's a question.. Last time I did Margam there was a massive bottleneck at the oak tree sharp left hander, and blokes were pulling up well behind me, shouldering their bikes and trampling way around through the undergrowth to barge in in front of everyone. Is that really fair?
Oh and for those people commenting on the first page, it's actually much easier than you think to ride bigger stuff on a XC race whippet machine. They are a lot lighter, more direct and easier to handle so that makes it easier - you just have to nail the landings properly, nice and smoothly 🙂 The only thing that's a struggle on my 80mm XC bike is fast rocky bits. As for the saddle - just get your weight back! 🙂
GW to clarify....you're saying that you have climbed off your bike at the top of a climb and dropped your saddle in a xc race?
If so, did you raise it at the start of the said climb on the next lap? Over 4 laps that'd mean that you had to stop at least 8 times....20 seconds per times gives you over 2 minutes of time lost-in my last race that would have cost me 3 places.
Nick did you ride all of the A lines at Dalby this year?
The comment about ettiquette isn't really valid as DH is primarily a race against the clock, not the other riders.
here we go again with you missing the point with your constant need for "Validity" 🙄
etiquette = letting the faster rider through both in practice and during race runs my point was really as simple as that so surely doesn't require any further validation?
there can be 200 riders (of vastly differing skill/speed) on a mile(ish) long 2-5min track for upto 8 hours of practice at a DH race BTW.
If so, did you raise it at the start of the said climb on the next lap? Over 4 laps that'd mean that you had to stop at least 8 times....20 seconds per times gives you over 2 minutes of time lost-in my last race that would have cost me 3 places.
I lowered it once (completely slammed) at the highest point on the course, I then passed 13 riders (most of whom had passed me on the climb, I rode the next climb with it still slammed and raised it while walking upto the next fireroad, a couple of riders then passed me on the next climb (make of that what you will).
shouldering their bikes and trampling way around through the undergrowth to barge in in front of everyone. Is that really fair?
Quite normal for lap one on some courses. Never raced where it's happened more than once.
Oh and for those people commenting on the first page, it's actually much easier than you think to ride bigger stuff on a XC race whippet machine. They are a lot lighter, more direct and easier to handle so that makes it easier - you just have to nail the landings properly, nice and smoothly The only thing that's a struggle on my 80mm XC bike is fast rocky bits. As for the saddle - just get your weight back
I want the XC race bike he is having 🙂
All my XC race bikes have nowhere near as good technically as any trail bike I've had. And I never get the good line in a race, or rarely. I just take what's going. Nail the landings and smoothly! words that I've never used in my experience of XC racing.
Hang on... you said that DH riders exhibit better etiquette because they let slower riders past. You said:
and if you do catch him, he'll 99% of the time know you're coming (they'll hear Marshall's whistles or the faster rider coming) and pull over somewhere safe to let you pass.. if they don't you are entitled to a re-run! DH racing has far better etiquette than XC racing
You referred to a race situation, specifically. Now you're saying in practice. In practice in XC the same happens, if people are in a different category, they get out of the way, if people have a mechanical, then they get out of the way. However, if you just catch someone in your race they shouldn't have to move out of the way, that's not poor etiquette by XC racers, it's part of it.
I quite liked entering races/events/whatever until I read this thread. Now I am scared I am going to get in someone's way....or my walking/running/mincing will be frowned upon.... 🙄
There's a bit of difference between DH and XC in the way that they're raced though-DH is a time trial, whereas XC is a mass start event so dealing with others around you is all part of it.
GW what race was this in the that you were altering seatpost heights? What category was it too?
stumpy01
Just keep entering them and accept that some people will be faster and some slower. If someone holds me up then that's tough....I'm racing he is racing.
Of course in a perfect world there wouldn't be anyone else on the course to dare be in front of me going slower.
Edit; Or faster 😳
I'm sure juan's clever enough not to hold anyone up while lowering his too.
Gravity dropper 😉 well worth the weight penalty in my opinion. The TV is the transvésubienne, a one day race over 85kms, 3000m of ascent and 4000m of descent. I am sure njee is getting confused with the trans provence, a proper enduro race over a week.
Julien absalon said the TV was the hardest one day race he ever raced. It's getting easier though this year 52% of the riders managed to finish it.
GW what race was this in the that you were altering seatpost heights?
Well i did that at inners for busa circa 2005 😀
juan in all fairness we are talking hour plus cross country racing here.
You are talking about this thing.
[img] http://blog.rastafari-riders.fr/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/raid-avalanche_02.jp g" target="_blank">
Is that not what happens when 'normal' people (students) try and ride difficult stuff with seats up their arses? 😛
I watched a video of the Mega the other night and there were loads of riders walking on the snow at the start because it was quicker than riding.
Is that wrong too?
njee - that was a direct answer to oldgit's question regarding "minute men"
maybe you (and your XC racer friends) should read the rule I posted earlier from the BC rule bookHowever, if you just catch someone in your race they shouldn't have to move out of the way, that's not poor etiquette by XC racers, it's part of it
tom - SXC Glentress can't remember what year
I watched a video of the Mega the other night and there were loads of riders walking on the snow at the start because it was quicker than riding
No it wasn't; they were obviously just slower riding. Last year however there was a long traverse on a cat track that was virtually unrideable. Not really sure what your point is.
Continuing on the Mega theme, there were a few bits in the quali and race where folk feel the need to stand about at the top of sections totally messing it up for everyone else. It's highly frustarting and at times fairly dangerous.
I think the point he is making is that it's sometimes impossible to keep people apart and riding 100% of the time in a massed start race.
Having to get off the bike to keep going is not a sin and not restricted to XC racing.
Dan Martin had to get off and push on a climb during a stage of the Tour of The Basque Country this year. He's proper crap isn't he! I mean he's only won a single stage of the Vuelta this year ffs!
Put a hundered or so riders together with barely enough room for them and inevitably some stalling will happen.
In all the races I've done in the last few years the onus was always on the overtaking rider to move past when safe, NOT the person in front to get out of the way. You shouldn't force other people out of the way, they're racing too.
Yeah Brycey, just trying to point out that it's not just XC racers who resort to walking if it's quicker/safer.
I don't know what the point of trying to make a point like that is though tbh.
🙂
round of applause for GW for some of the best trollage in ages, well done squire 😆
Don't really get all this. If it's quicker to walk, it's quicker to walk. It's a race. "Fair" doesn't come into it. If you're quicker, you should be in front anyway?
In motorbike racing, if one guy prefers to keep loads of corner speed, and somone else prefers to stop the bike, lay it over, get it back up and get hard on the gas, they're going to have a mismatch, but the faster guy round the circuit will win. And if it's very close, the canniest racer will win.
What's different here? And who cares, really?? The guy who would have come 26th, but came 27th because someone was walking ahead of him? Or the guy who came second, but would have won if that guy hadn't been walking? The latter doens't seem likely, the former should be thinking about how to get 10 places ahead, not 1.
And neither would mention it if they were good enough to avoid something avoidable, or sportsmanlike enough to write it off as a racing incident, whether avoidable or not.
I don't know what the point of trying to make a point like that is though tbh.
What are we arguing about again? 😀
Brycey - MemberNot really sure what your point is.
+ 1 😕
...blokes were pulling up well behind me, shouldering their bikes and trampling way around through the undergrowth to barge in in front of everyone. Is that really fair?
I've done it at SITS and Mayhem.
I always get dropped on the first lap run and need to make up time anyway I can.
If I can get past the singletrack mincers without crossing the course marker tape and without endangering any other rider, I will.
Anyway, if you think XC racers are soft for walking, take a look at these pro roadies.
A bit of sloping tarmac is hardly a Technical Terrain Feature, but they're all off and pushing.
[img] 
[/img]
In motorbike racing, if one guy prefers to keep loads of corner speed, and somone else prefers to stop the bike, lay it over, get it back up and get hard on the gas, they're going to have a mismatch, but the faster guy round the circuit will win. And if it's very close, the canniest racer will win.
And if one of them decides to get off and walk around a difficult corner, the entire world will call him a mincing gaylord and collectively point and laugh 😉
Mountainbike racing implies riding a bike, not pushing/carrying it. If someone wants to run, they should do some XC running races. If the course is too difficult, then the course is wrong. If XC races are all about fitness then the is something wrong with the discipline as a whole.
2p
[img] http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQVU814dW2C3anB30E-Rz8bQS8ArxwPC-ZhR24s1LzxMIbudcoT [/img]
legend, they're not about fitness, they're about speed. The quickest guy wins. The next quickest guy comes second, etc.
Bizarely MTG that pic is Dan Martin walking at the Basque Country as I mentioned earlier!
Tom, I know nothing about road racing, I just remembered a friend from the Basque Country talking about roadies pushing on another forum, so I went back and blagged the pictures.
That climb in the Basque Country was steep as ****, again it got bunched up near the top which is the steepest bit and the guys behind ran out of gears and stalled.
Very seldom pro roadies need to get off and push as do pro mtb riders.
People who race MTB's need to improve their starts, I am not a great sprinter but 95% of the time I get to the bottle neck/first corner/first climb in the top 5 and then your away, while all the rest fight it out, including some that are fitter than me.
People who race MTB's need to improve their starts
Exactly what I was thinking. If you're being held up by somebody, it's because they're better than you at something you were(n't) doing earlier.
All my XC race bikes have nowhere near as good technically as any trail bike I've had
Well they're not, but that just means going slower on the really rough stuff and it makes it a bit more sketchy and much slower on really steep stuff. Not much that you simply can't do on the XC bike outside of proper rocky stuff. And even then when you go really slowly a 80mm fork helps by not diving much 🙂
I'd do that drop on my Pitch no problem, probably not on an XC hardtail though. All the people I've ridden with that have competed in XC to a decent level have been pretty shit-hot in terms of all round bike skills btw.
I have to agree walking/running in races is lame, and very annoying in the Mega.
Again in XC racing people IME don't run through choice.
What I find is if you have ninty people all racing the same race, something :|might happen....a slip, a missed gear, clipping a tree, over cooking a turn. The minute delay that causes can a have a domino effect on the field.
It's nothing to do with lack of skills or poor course design, it's what XC racing is. Many thousands of riders seem to grasp that, I don't see what the problem is.
Off topic slightly. You can see this 'must ride at all costs' in cyclocross. How often will you see a mountainbike going up a section in the granny ring whilst others are running past.
It's cross country, all about crossing country.