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[i]Watching the programme the other night really moved me, it chilled me to the bone.[/i]
I think it did all of us mate, which is why the debate gets so impassioned.
Pants - Empty post?
Watched this on iPlayer yesterday, good stuff. Only criticisms I could find were the failure to mention exactly why the Twin Towers were attacked, and the ROE where anyone with a weapon was a fair target, hardly a sound policy in a country where any farmer worth his salt is armed with the ubiquitous AK!
After discussion with the good lady, and on the promise of not repeating any of the strong language, we also let our 10 year old watch it (he loves the forces because just about every male member of our family have served or is serving). He found it sad, as we all did, but it opened his eyes to war non-Hollywood style. Mind you, he's now in the garden laying down suppressing fire, so perhaps it didn't quite have the desired effect!
Looking forward to part 2 when we get time.
Saw it last night. Aside from some of the sentimental stuff, I thought it was a very good programme. Brings home the reality of what it's like to be in a war zone. Sod that. Not for me thanks. Fair play to the people that do it though, regardless of the politics.
Don't see why Seossamh should receive such vitriol for expressing his/her onion though. Raises some fair points tbh. Maybe they cooduv worded it a bit better, but I really don't like the way any criticism of British armed involvement abroad is met with such anger and hate. We need folk to oppose war, at all times. War should only ever be the absolute last resort, when all other options have been tried and have failed. Not to serve the megalomaniacal urges of self-serving politicians seeking a 'legacy'.
Don't see why Seossamh should receive such vitriol for expressing his/her onion though. Raises some fair points tbh.
because of their op. one thing OUR armed forces are not is muppets
SO to get back on topic.Goood account in this book
Thanks, ordered when i read that and it came this morning. Read the first few chapters, seems good 🙂
We need folk to oppose war, at all times. War should only ever be the absolute last resort, when all other options have been tried and have failed. Not to serve the megalomaniacal urges of self-serving politicians seeking a 'legacy'.
Sage words indeed.
I'm all for sending our guys to battle an enemy that is threatening our shores (here and abroad), but not so keen when the people we are fighting A: used to be our betest buddies who we trained and funded to beat the Ruskies when it suited us, and B: are not threatening us.
one thing OUR armed forces are not is muppets
I don't know, I reckon there's probably the same proportion of muppets as in the general population.
just watched it on iplayer.
it all seems quite futile, doesn't it.
their sargeant (name rhyming with 'binter') came across as being quite incompetant at his job. the other sergeant at the front seemed much better.
i don't think i'd want to be under the command of the 'binter' guy.
i don't understand why they were sent to depend this empty, isolated in his town, Now Zud. but then i'm not a military commander.
but most of these guys were literally just boys. quite sad.
i have empathy for the situation that they were/are in, but do not respect their decision to sign up. each one of them knew the dangers that came with being a soldier . each of them knew that there was a war going on (one of the lads - and i presume many others - was just 14 when 9/11 happened). did that play a part in them deciding to sign up? were they excited by the idea of "seeing action", being given a gun to shoot?
none of them were forced to sign up.
incidently, i caught the end of the Wooton Basset program that was shown this evening. again, very sad. but each one of those returning in a coffin knew the dangers they would face. and consequently that their chances of meeting an un-natural end was much higher.
good luck to anyone embarking on a military career...
three cheers for the muppets willing to shoot someone for a pittance, never understood that mentality.
@sesame... (think that's your handle)... Really? If you have an argument that mnd of approach isn't going to convince anyone.
@yossarian the west had been trying to connect with the taliban for a long time. I think much of what you say is good, but it isn't always possible. While with hindsight the Iraqi war seems to have been wrong, there is clear evidence that Afghanistan had become a military camp for terrorists. What would you have done to stop it being one. It was clearly an effective training base, the continuing problems today still steming from there. With hindsight it was our unwillingness to tackle extremism in the past that led to the problems.
They may disagree with western capitalism but so do China. They seem to have worked around it. Islamic extremism exists amongst a minority and exploits that minority. Let's not make excuses for the taliban either.
It was a very thought provoking programme and made me think why are those poor boys being exposed to such incompetence, both politically and practically. Maybe they did underestimate what being a soldier really meant. Maybe they got it wrong some of them. I think 18 year olds can make mistakes. We feed ourselves enough of our own style of propaganda about war. The same as an 8 year old afghan child I saw in a documentary many years ago, with older men playing him the audio on a cassette of his father being killed in a fire fight. That young boy being groomed back then could have been one of those men behind the trees. A little far fetched to be true possibly, but the reality may not be too far away.
I watched it on iPlayer last night too.
I thought that the sergeant was flapping far too hard, which wouldn't affect his blokes well. Seemed to improve a bit later though and came across as a decent chap in the interview.
Great program, whatever you view of our armed forces. I thought Mrs Gray seemed very dignified, but I did feel sorry for the poor lad who was so badly affected by the tour; I hope that he wins the fight with his demons and leads a full and happy life.
But they admitted the first contact was a learning curve.
I think they all acted incredibly well. But I couldn't understand why, if it was standard practice to use the hammocks as stretchers they hadn't been taught to do something about the ties. Also, I am aware all troops have to experience contact for a first time... But to be put at point? Surely that doesn't stand up to reason?
I think this thread is evidence enough that any approach isn't going to convince anyone with their heart set on supporting the troops regardless..@sesame... (think that's your handle)... Really? If you have an argument that mnd of approach isn't going to convince anyone
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
You watch that scene from a few good men on a daily basis don't you? 😀"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
It's not in a few good men.
I know.It's not in a few good men.
PIN PULLED!!!
Some good valid discussion points on this thread, each has there own views, however.
The Sergeant was the same chap throughout ep 1 and he had to get his troops moving as they were startled rabbits in headlights! Of course he was slightly flapping, who would not in that situation, one guy wounded, one guy possibly dead and loads of bullets coming your way with no mercy!
The stretcher was not an ideal piece of kit and has been improved no end since, the straps get tied up and sometimes come undone, crap happens! Alot was learnt from day and alot of other training went on in camp.
I thought the progarmme came across very well as did so many others, no pland survives contact with the enemy!
Soldiers join up and deploy on Ops with the knowledge that they might get killed that's the nature of the job and we just get on with it, it happens it happens!!
OUT!
Flapping? I'd have squeezed myself into a gap the size of my arsehole and would still be there now. I suspect people who don't flap in situations like that exist in films or shoot em'ups on PS3 only.
Casualty extracted with no further major injuries or losses sounds like a pretty good result to me, wgaf whether there was a bit of shouting and the odd c-bomb being chucked about.
The next episode is on now folks.
Just missed the start, mother in-law yapping on phone. Will catch it on iPlayer.
Astounded that someone could sit at their keyboard presuming to criticise soldiers at war. Astounding.
yup, it beggars belief! but then if we agree on everything, there would be no arguements ergo this [s]thread[/s] forum wouldn't exist
Astounded that someone could sit at their keyboard presuming to criticise soldiers at war.
Germans didn't criticise their soldiers at war during the 1930s a 1940s. Still astounded?
I hope that's not directed at me dezb. I've done my time in a front line unit thanks.
Why? Do i need to take up a gun and go an join the afghans to be able to have an opinion? don't talk nonsense...Astounded that someone could sit at their keyboard presuming to criticise soldiers at war. Astounding.
seosamh77 - MemberAstounded that someone could sit at their keyboard presuming to criticise soldiers at war. Astounding.
Why? Do i need to take up a gun and go an join the afghans to be able to have an opinion? don't talk nonsense...
Not at all.
You could do us and the human race as a whole a great service and follow the Bobby Sands diet plan for a period of no less than 66 days though.
I specifically meant Alpin's post.
Calling someone incompetent just cos he's seen a bit of it on the telly.
I would call someone a **** for calling me incompetent at [i]my[/i] job.
DezB - Member
I specifically meant Alpin's post.
Calling someone incompetent just cos he's seen a bit of it on the telly.
I would call someone a **** for calling me incompetent at my job.
He said he 'came across as incompetent' which is quite different
Hmm, yeah, I'll give you that. 😐
As regards flapping under fire, some are surviving injuries they have no right to due to the modern medical techniques being applied immediately by their mates while still on the front line.
My Wife is a medical professional in the Forces and although i'm told little, in part due to patient confidentiality, what does come across often is their dignity and lack of complaint. Yes, they were not forced to join and knew the risks, as in every modern conflict, but they are not IMO reasons for our boy's and girl's not to have our full support as individuals doing their job.
Oooft, you cut me there, how will i ever recover from such wit..You could do us and the human race as a whole a great service and follow the Bobby Sands diet plan for a period of no less than 66 days though
I think possibly calling you a clownshoe or something similar, probably on the same level of humour...
No muppets in the Army lol!
I strongly disliked what Seosamh wrote on the Old Firm thread but have to agree with his sentiment here!
They don't even have proper kit, hardly get phone calls home - family need to pay to send parcels out to them.
Then, when you get blown to bits and come back a shell of a person you have to rely on charity to have a life because the MoD don't give a ****.
Really, anyone going over there is a bit of a muppet.
why are they the muppets for the fact that our Gov doesn't give a shit? we are the muppets for letting our gov take the p1ss out of our servicemen.
The problem of poor/non-existent equipment and aftercare would still be there if it was a war we all agreed on, but because the majority of the British public don't understand why were are in Afganistan, that makes the guys out there the muppets? Get real, we voted, Labour shafted the MoD and the ConDems are doing very little to fix the shortfalls their predecessors left them with.
There are always issues with kit but I believe the vast majority have now been solved; chat to a serving soldier and I am sure they will tell you the same. Clearly more issues will arise but thats because the nature of the conflict is currently changing.
As far as I understand soldiers get at least 30 mins of calls a week to home; not bad really.
The aftercare in the Military is quite simply amazing and quite rightly at a highter standard than for others. I chatted to a bloke who had come home wounded and he was extremely well looked after both by the military and the various charities that are doing sterling work. There have been military charities for centuries and they plug a lot of gaps. Incidentaly he was far from being a shell of a man dispite severe life changing injuries.
And I know you can send as many parcels as you like for free as long as they are under 2kgs.
Dogsby
What gets me is what are they actually achieving there, the terrorist training camps are gone, the british Army play there war games, in the example in the documentry, the staus quo had been kept for months, the army went into that village to find trouble, a young soldier is killed and for what, the Afghans have been fighting foreigners for centuries it is there national pastime, this is a war being fought for ideological reasons and will achieve nothing longterm.
Because they signed up knowing this was the norm.why are they the muppets for the fact that our Gov doesn't give a shit? we are the muppets for letting our gov take the p1ss out of our servicemen.
you may think they are muppets for dojng it but I happen to think they are brave, much more brave than you or I
Same for firepersons, paramedics, police etc?
When a paramedic is killed by a drunken lunatic or a fireperson falls off their ladder, do you take a sharp intake and say "well, they knew what they were getting into"?
Because they signed up knowing this was the norm.
I think your words say far more about you than those who serve in the forces.
what planet are you on? I don't see many firemen, polis or paramedics going into combat in foriegn lands.Same for firepersons, paramedics, police etc?
When a paramedic is killed by a drunken lunatic or a fireperson falls off their ladder, do you take a sharp intake and say "well, they knew what they were getting into"?
In your head and others like you, i'm more than comfortable living with that. I mean ffs anyone here understand the word propaganda at all, listen to yourselves.I think your words say far more about you than those who serve in the forces.
I'm on earth although I'm not sure about you. you say that soldiers join knowing the risks. Well so do paramedics, firepersons etc.