I don't really get the OTT price thing. I got my 08 Five Pro new in spring 08 for about £2600, which was ok. The drivetrain wore out and got upgraded to XT, the Mono Mini's are still good, as are the Pro 2 Hubs and wtb speed-disc wheels. The bars and stem and post got changed to Easton after a yr - most of the changes I made are normal kind of stuff to do to any bike over a bit of time riding it. Fork and shock work fine and are still 'current', if not bolt though
Current 5 Pro is £2850 with comparable spec to what came with my 08 one (although now xt rather than slx, which some would argue is as good) and costs 10% more than 3 yrs ago - sounds ok to me
I can't afford an Aston Martin, it doesn't mean they're not worth the money
They are many other reasons why they might not be worth the money though.
flow you missed the cat that i fall into.
i dont want one. it might be an awesome bike but i will never know because i just dont want one.
If you can't afford it, it doesn't make it not worth the money, it just means you need a better job, or to buy a cheaper bike.
I can't afford an Aston Martin, it doesn't mean they're not worth the money.
Heard of the words "want", "need" and "justify"?
I've not ridden a 5 but I know it's not worth twice as much as a Giant, Trek or Specialized. So because of this very point, it ceases to be about need or justification, and it becomes all about want.
I want an Aston Martin too. Is a DBS "worth" £180k? Is it 10 times better than the average family hatchback? Of course it's not, but if you've got the cash and you want it, you'll buy it. And thats fair enough. I can at least see where some of the extra money is going (if not all of it) with an Aston Martin though. With an Orange, I can't. The only reason I can see that they are more expensive than the competition is their handbuilt in small volumes nature. Which would be fine if that meant it was a better quality product because of it, even if only marginally so. As it is, even all the mags have started erring towards newer (cheaper) designs and the once great 5 has fallen by the wayside a little.
It's obviously a good bike, but then there are lots of other good bikes out there too, some great even. And most cost less than a 5...
The point about getting a better job... Totally wasted. I have the bikes I want, I dont lust over a 5 at all. In fact, there ate quite frankly many many bikes I'd buy before a 5 given a lottery win etc.
So do I still fit in your category number 1, given that I neither want, nor care for the 5, and I could have bought one at any stage if I had wanted to do so? 😉
Methinks someone has bought into the hype!
I tested and bought a second hand orange 5 really enjoy riding it but if I had to buy again I think I would look else where because of the price.
Also every bikes not perfect so its just what you like when you try it
If the discussion is about suspension design, then the single pivot has the advantages discussed, and also the downsides. An amazing mind blowing improvement can be made by using cane creek DB, at which point it will match the best (certainly if the physics add up as it seems to) suspension system currently available the DW link.
I have a dw Turner Five spot and a Five, and only when the Spot went to the 2011 angles could it match the Five despite its wonderous suspension.
I've just had a look on the Orange Web Site and they may ride well, but every bike they make is truly hideous.
For that reason I'm out.
Me thinks someone has bought into the hype!
Ahh thats where you're wrong. I bought into the hype of the Trek EX. Full Floater, ABP, Evo link, DRCV shock and was quite happy with it, then I demoed a Five and made it look crap, so much so I bought one. I hadn't really even read anything about the Five before I demoed it either, so marketing etc didn't even come into it. I wan't even looking to buy a new bike, I just went to Scotland to stay with relatives!
BTW Trek and Specialized are made by Giant 🙄
Easy one buy a Heckler lol, made by Giant too BTW
catvet, you're 5 is as good as your DW 5 spot with a CCDB?
That is interesting. How does that badboy climb?
The 5 is very nearly perfect for me, the suspension has put me off (I have tried one and it felt like it had half the travel of some 140 bikes I've been on) but if the CCDB makes that much of a difference I'd be interested.
backander
I borrowed a CCDB off Orange, tuned it to what i felt was correct with a little help from Steve Jones at Dirt mag, and it was staggering compared with the RP23. adds some weight, but with a titanium spring would be tolerable. Without the help I suspect it would have taken me ages to set it up correctly.
My feelings are there are 2 basic alternatives to rear suspension, the olds' cool SP with a good shock versus a DW link suspension (IMHO the best). Majority of the others are actuated SPs or DW/Vpp lookalikes, so if multilink is your bag then go for the best ie DW, if not a basic solid SP with a good shock.
dont expect that helps too much!
Thanks catvet. I'm still stumped!
I simply cannot find what I want!
I think we have almost found the answer to the world's problems in this thread.
Ahh thats where you're wrong. I bought into the hype of the Trek EX. Full Floater, ABP, Evo link, DRCV shock and was quite happy with it, then I demoed a Five and made it look crap, so much so I bought one.
This highlights more than anything the subjective view of bike ownership/testing... You obviously get on better with your 5 for whatever reason than you did the Trek. As I'm sure would many others. But then again, many people would find 140mm too much travel, and 120mm a sweet spot, and the Trek EX is known to be one of the best out there, so much so it won What MTB bike of the year award last time round. The Orange was several places from the top it should be noted. Bikes are a very subjective ownership prospect!
For instance, my own full sus bike I personally rate as the best there is, and know a handful of people on this forum would agree with me. Doesn't mean that it is the best though, just my subjective view... Besides, most people would say it's even uglier (and more expensive) than a 5, which it's not, so would dismiss it instantly...
£3,000 for the Pro and it has SLX crank and weighs a complete tonne, they have to be prehaps the worst spec bike 3K can buy, and who in gods name would pay 4.5K for a single pivot pile of shite ugly looking Orange!!!! Not me thats for sure. Yeh it may have XTR but alot of 3.5K nicer looking bikes have XTR. Im not suprised they dont sell many bikes, they will definatly never ever get my money. If i was going to sling 4.5K at a bike id get something that looked the dogs bollox like the Ibis Mojo SL WTF, or for around 3K build a SLX kitted Ibis Mojo.
Who would have thought that the humble Five would induce such vitriol?
Just to get this out the way - [i]yes, I own an Orange Five[/i]
But before I did; me and my mate took my boutique-y Nicolai Helius and a bog standard demo Orange Five out to test them on the same local trail sections, back to back (used the wall descent and all the sections on whites at Afan, plus stuff in the FoD if your interested).
Whilst I liked my Nicolai - the numbers said that Five was by far the quicker bike, up, along or downhill.
Just cause brand a, b or c has 4 bar or VPP doesn't make them quick.
[i]"some bikes have great suspension but pathetic angles"[/i] to not quote MBR.
I'm not saying the Five is [i]the[/i] bike, its just a simple, reliable and most of all a quick bike.
Would have to agree with earlier comment, stock RP23 isn't great - PUSH upgrade improves things significantly.
Just my tuppence worth.
Been wondering about a STOY for the Five - just wondering on %age of folks who run coil shocks on their Five?
Backhander
I would try a DW Spot, the 2011 version has the same HA, same seat angle and toptube (that is large Spot and 18" Five) so you can really make a direct comparison of the suspension systems, not the geometry.
If you want then to go carbon super light the ibis SLR or if you want even more adjustability the Ibis HD 160/140. my LBS has just sold 5 of the latter totally blinged up at around 5k, look amazing. very tempted by the SLR
Having ridden / owned several verions of the 5 and also other well known full sus bikes (Specialized Enduro, SC Blur 4X, Marin, etc), I agree that the 5 is not the "Best" suspension platform out there, or the best performing bike in some situations.
However, I keep returning to it and the only reason I can give is they are simply the most all round fun bike to ride, in all sorts of conditions and situations. They are a brilliant bit of simple design that works. I would buy another like a shot if I didn't have a Patriot 66 instead. Maybe I will anyway... 🙂
I still like my Sub5 even running 40mm too much travel up front it's a great bike considering it's 8 years old or more, I replaced the bearings the other day, they'd been creaky for about 6 months without really effecting the suspension performance. This might have been the first time they'd been done.
The Reason that the 5 will continue to be popular is that they simply refuse to go wrong, get one in the right size and the right colour and it will be there for you for as long as your dare ride an alu frame.
Other factors include a light enough weight to pedal up almost everything, enough travel to handle most situations, UK friendly mud clearance and a very generous number of bikes given to the right people.
I'll never be embarrassed to turn up on a five, I'll never have to consider if it's too wet, too dusty, to flat or too steep. It's like my hardtail only comfortable, It's like my DH bike, only it's light. If I can do it, I can do it on a 5. If I can't do it the 5 will take the crash.
It's the only bike I'd own if I was being honest, the rest of the garage is just because I signed up to a forum.
Mountainman123, what bike do you ride?
Flow have a guess...............
Mk2 Ellsworth Epiphany 150mm and a 2010 Ibis Mojo SL 120mm and a 456 Carbon 160mm 2011
Apollo? 😉
Answer above, this is a forum and people are asking for opinions and thats mine, i suppose alot of people on here will hate Ellsworth / Ibis / and the 456C, but i love em... Of course i do otherwise i wouldnt of bought them.
In the past iv owned some turd bikes too. I suppose everyone who rides a 5 will know what it feels like to own a turd bike as i did with the Marin and Ragley.
Really intelligent posts mate, don't you have school in the morning?
Are the actualy made in England? i got a new Orange bike last year and if i remember right the sticker on the frame said " Designed in england " but it was made in the far east.
Oh Brother!!!!!...............
Sub £3k will get you this.....
http://www.canyon.com/_en/mountainbikes/bike.html?b=2088
Better Built (probably)
Better looking
Evolved !
Every component is better spec (Full Xtr, R1s etc)
significantly! lighter
Rare (at the moment)
Rave reviews
Great service
hmmmm a TOTR Canyon, then 25 Tai hookers with the spare cash! or a 5SE !
😆
If im right only the 5 is made in Halifax, all the cheaper ones are made else where.
That Canyon looks lovely and GOOD value for money.
I mean come on, the 5s have to be expensive, they are made in the UK.
Basically the monocoque ones are made in the UK, the tube ones are made in Taiwan (not totally sure about the ST4 but I [i]think[/i] it's furrin)
Better Built (probably)
[b]Errr no, its made by a robot[/b].
Better looking
[b]Are you blind, it looks like a Kona![/b]
Evolved
[b]Really?[/b]
Every component is better spec (Full Xtr, R1s etc)
[b]Correct, makes up for that cheap and nasty frame[/b]
significantly! lighter
[b]Who cares?[/b]
Rare (at the moment)
[b]So are Ladas[/b]
Rave reviews
[b]I think that was more the fact it was cheap and had decent kit[/b]
Great service
[b]Aren't they internet only?[/b]
To be fair, that Canyon does look a million times nicer than the Orange Five.
And what's wrong with being built by a robot? The tubes were on the Orange, so why not the welding?
Starting to assume Flow's on a troll here...
flow - MemberErrr no, its made by a robot.
And? Being handmade isn't automatically better, in fact robot welding is often more consistent.
flow - Member
Correct, makes up for that cheap and nasty frame
What's cheap and nasty about it?
No it doesn't, its a matter of opinion obviously.
The Five isn't made of tubes, its pressed from sheet aluminium then welded.
Northwind, assume what you like, I'm entitled to an opinion as much as anyone else.
[img] 
[/img]
They do ride much better with a coil shock, RP23 BV for me blows its mid-travel.
Funny old debate going on, its a good bike at most things, and it forgives my awful skills 😀
with my 36's on it does feel like a mini DH bike, and can go much faster than I can think downhill.
Flow: 😆
Personal insults don't help
Alright they are pressed and cut by a machine 8)
This is a cool vid though whether you like them or not
FLOW, yes you are entitled to an opinion, JUST LIKE EVEYONE ELSE.
Bored now
And what's wrong with being built by a robot? The tubes were on the Orange, so why not the welding?
Nothing wrong with it, in fact set up correctly the robot will make better welds than any human.
Edit doh too slow...
Flow clearly is a guy who owns an Orange 5, probably a Neon green one with colour matched rims and deems himself a little "crazy". When I owened a 5 SE I also felt, for some strange reason, a little hell bent on protecting its integrity, probably because I am from halifax ?
Canyons are probably made by robots,......... the exact reason why I would buy one. The thing about robots is they can be programmed to produce perfection, frame after frame. They dont have mood swings, they dont turn up late, they dont have opinion etc...etc....
I noticed someone above mentioned the "trueness" of his 5 frame, my back wheel also was 7-8mm further to the RH side of the swing arm, I dropped it back in and they said it was in tolerence ?.
Off to drool over that crap looking cheap Canyon ?........... with its £275.00 seatpost & £450.00 brakeset, worth a punt ?, at least if you didnt like it you could split it and make a margin !.
flow - MemberThe Five isn't made of tubes, its pressed from sheet aluminium then welded.
Except the top tube, which is a [i]tube[/i].
You're entitled to an opinion but you should at least have something to back it up apart from "it's not made by a robot" and "the Canyon is nasty"
Flow and Mountainman123 stop fighting its making me sad, come on we all love bikes , there only as good as the rider, I use mine to compensate for my hopeless skills. 😀
Got to agree Canyon is not my cuppa tea
I think i am with northwind, mountainman123 and ragti on this one. flow is a troll and seems to have nothing to back anything he says up!
Loving the sarcasm Northwind 😆
[b]You are always going to pay a premium for anything handmade because whether you like it or not, you are paying for someones skills and time. [/b]
[b]You're entitled to an opinion but you should at least have something to back it up apart from "it's not made by a robot" and "the Canyon is nasty" [/b]
to correct a common misconception about off-shore bike production, VERY few bicycle frames are manufactured using "robots", they are actually "hand made" not by english or german workers but by highly-skilled Taiwanese workers who actually get paid a good wage for their work
a skilled welder in Taiwan is typically making US$25,000 a year
many of the quality frames manufactured in Taiwan are made by small, specialist manufacturing plants which are often family-owned and run by business people who have invested huge amounts of money into the latest manufacturing technology and training for their workforce
as an example, I currently ride a Canadian manufactured Split-Pivot suspension frame - everything is manufactured in Canada except for the tubeset which is made in Taiwan as it requires very specialist hydroforming tube manipulation which is not available anywhere in the USA, Canada or Europe
once the tubeset has been manufactured it is shipped back to Quebec, Canada and then mitred and jigged up for welding
this hydroforming is not done for aesthetic reasons, but to put the metal exactly where its needed, and remove it where its not needed - this results in a tough 'real world resistant' tubeset with minimal weight compared to regular round tubing or the old Easton RAD style tubesets
Taiwan is where the cutting edge manufacturing is found - unfortunately not in the UK or Germany
Taiwan has factories leading the world in advanced bicycle manufacuring including hydroforming the highest strength and toughest 7XXX series aluminium alloys, cold-forging and cold-form extrusion
China has factories leading the world in advanced bicycle manufacturing including hand-laid carbon composite technology
all these factories are heavily 'labour intensive' with 'hand made' being the way things are done..not "robots"
