[Closed] Orange 5 vs Cotic Rocket

Rocket coz i would not loose it amongst hundreds of others at the trail park

Rocket, because I'm a raging fanboi 😉

They should feel pretty different in use, no substitute for testrides... Still haven't ridden a Rocket myself but I'd far rather have my Hemlock than a Five so unless they've screwed up, I reckon I'd go that way.

But then, I'd build it big and lump and an Alpine would be a fairer comparison... And I do like me the Alpines.

Having never ridden either, I can conclusively say that the Rocket is far better looking.....

Well, as I bought a Rocket that's not a tricky one. Not that I've ridden a Five so I can't compare.

The main advantage that has been pointed out to me of a Five is less bits for mud to stick to. I suspect this only really comes into its own in the sort of grimness of this year's Mayhem or SITS though.

I can attest to the fact that people wandering up to you and talking to you about your bike is something that happens if you have a Rocket, at least at the moment, so if you're shy then maybe a Five.

Neither.

its true, lots of people talk to you when you have a rocket, so far they have all been nice people, so I like it.

I believe the rocket has been designed by a very talented engineer. Thats why I bought one. The 5 doesn't have that appeal for me. Neither 5 or rocket are cheap, tbh, if I'd seen On One doing an El Guapo with ccdb and lyrik for 2k I would have gone for that. As much as I love the Rocket, my build cost twice that (don't tell the wife).

You really need to try both don't you? Only my advice is to try the Rocket 1st cos if you try a 5 1st you won't bother with anything else. Thats what happened to me anyway.

esselgruntfuttock - Member

if you try a 5 1st you won't bother with anything else. Thats what happened to me anyway.

That happens with loads of Five owners, it's why they can say "It's the best bike I've ridden" 😉

It happened to me too 😳

I has a demo on a Rocket when I was half way through my Five build, was very impressed and would deffo have had one if I didn't already have the Five, the only thing i didn't like was the axle that needed an Allen key to remove the wheel but it wasn't a deal breaker.

Every time i blink i see a 5 when out trail riding + they are ugly (imo)

Rocket looks good though! 🙂

[i]That happens with loads of Five owners, it's why they can say "It's the best bike I've ridden"[/i]

Well you might be right but I'm not female & if I like it (enough) I'll buy it without going round every shop in town to find anything better.

& if 'That happens with loads of Five owners' what does it tell you?

[i]Every time i blink i see a 5 when out trail riding + they are ugly (imo)[/i]

Do you watch the mantelpiece when your'e poking the fire as well?

Do you watch the mantelpiece when your'e poking the fire as well?

[b]Always[/b], i have nice looking women in my life 🙂

Same goes for my bikes, but they have the edge 😉

esselgruntfuttock - Member

if 'That happens with loads of Five owners' what does it tell you?

Tells me loads of them could well be happier on a different bike. I liked my Scandal, it was the best bike I'd ridden, til I rode a better bike and discovered it wasn't actually very good at the job I was using it for. If I'd never tried another bike I'd probably still like it, but it still wouldn't have been very good.

Now to be fair, that's absolutely fine, but quite a few of the "I didn't try anything else" people are also raving fanbois, and that's a bit annoying. Obviously it's miles better than bike X that they've never ridden!

But, maybe getting off the topic 😉 If the question is which bike you'll like most, the answer is either ride them both, or stop caring.

& if 'That happens with loads of Five owners' what does it tell you?

That it really doesn't matter that much and most bikes are pretty much of a muchness?

Orange 5 works (where/ when/ how [u][b]I need it to).
End of argument

Some interesting responses here. I note that nobody has actually ridden them both, but I guess we shouldn't let that stop us pontificating 🙂

Actually I have some sympathy with the notion that, once you find a bike that suits you, you should stop looking. We (or at least I) do seem to spend a lot of time worrying about things that make very little (and often imperceptible) difference to how a bike rides. There is a lot to be said for just getting a bike that won't let you down and riding the crap out of it, which, ironically, is what first got me thinking about the Five.

Not that I'm really in the market for a new bike. I suspect that both of these options are too bike a bike (i.e. too slack and too much travel) and therefore too much work on the climbs for the sort of all day natural trail riding that I aspire to. My Trance is probably close to ideal for what I need. But it's fun to dream.

Cheers,

Andy

I rode my first full suns bike back in 04 it was awesome the best thing I had ridden. So was the next one. After 4 test rides I realised the 1st 2 weren't actually that good......

I've tried loads of bikes but am on my second 5 because nothing else I've tried comes close..... and I don't drive an Audi or even a BMW 😮

Not had a go on the Cotic though.

I'd go for the 5,if only because Cotic's are generally ridden by knob'eds...........

whilst the rocket does look like a blast. my five is the first bike I've not got itchy feet over. had it nearly five years now and no real desire to change it.

[pulls up a chair] Don't mind me 😉

although if your doing trade-ins i've got a very battered strange five in battleship grey to offer..

I haven't ridden either of them but if I had to go for one I'd get a 5 cos you can get them in green, this being the single most important determining factor in whether or not I buy a bike.

If Cotic made a Rocket available in green I'd be in serious trouble.

Welcome aboard Cy. I bet it comes as a bit of a shock to realise that you've spent your life designing bikes for knob'eds, but there are worse ways of making a living I guess and at least there are plenty of us knob'eds about 🙂

Anyway, since you are here, would you care to expand on the concept of "pop". I keep reading that the Rocket has lots, but I'm not sure what it is. Does it just bounce off stuff more than other bikes? Would it be fair to say that it has been designed more for having fun for a few hours than for riding all day?

Cheers,

Andy

give me one of both, then I'll tell you.

Oh good, let the arse kissing commence

The whole pop thing is the best way I could describe the ride feel. A lot of suspension bikes I tried (including the Hemlock) feel very stuck to the floor, which once you get a decent amount of travel makes feel hard to get off the ground to hop over rocks or pop across to a different line. I'm sure it's very effective, but it's not as much fun as popping off things and being able to play with the bike a bit. The Rocket has that much more than a lot of other bikes. It's easy to loft and use little kickers without the suspension just smothering them. The other side to this is that you get lots of support when climbing. Most people expect the Rocket to be quick downhill, but it's the climbing ability that surprises most people. It's a great all rounder.

Regards having fun for a few hours compared to riding all day, I'm not sure I see the distinction. I try and have fun every time I ride my bike 😉 But slightly less facetiously, I've ridden my Rocket on massive rides and it's been great.

Orange & 5 need to be added to the swear filter then we can get a proper discussion going without all the fan boys needlessly chipping in.

Having ridden a five (briefly) as well as other high and forward single pivots (extensively) and never riding a rocket I'd buy the Cotic.

Moving away from a high forward single pivot design has made the single biggest positive improvement to my riding

Feeling amorous Legend? Pucker up big boy 😉

OK, so you want the bike to "pop" of things more than most long travel bikes. You could just ride a bike with less travel of course (which would also be lighter), but I guess you still want the travel for the big hits (e.g. when you cock something up). But can't you just increase the pressure in the suspension of any long(ish) travel bike to get the same effect?

Cheers,

Andy

roverpig - Member

Welcome aboard Cy. I bet it comes as a bit of a shock to realise that you've spent your life designing bikes for knob'eds, but there are worse ways of making a living I guess and at least there are plenty of us knob'eds about

Get out of his ar5e 😈

If you just increased the spring rate you'd lose small bump compliance and the bike would sit too high.

Orange & 5 need to be added to the swear filter then we can get a proper discussion going without all the fan boys needlessly chipping in.

How would you filter out all the people that bash the 5 just because it's the thing to do on here though? Plenty more people spam up every 5 thread without having a reason for doing so. Suprised no one's posted a picture of a filing cabinate yet. Also, tell me how to have a 'proper discussion' on a thread titled 'Orange 5 vs Cotic Rocket' without fan boys mentioning their experiences of their 5 😕

Yes, yes, I know I've taken the bait.

With names like that? Rocket of course 😉 (in black, naturally)

thepodge - Member

Orange & 5 need to be added to the swear filter then we can get a proper discussion going without all the fan boys needlessly chipping in.

Having ridden a five (briefly) as well as other high and forward single pivots (extensively) and never riding a rocket I'd buy the Cotic.

Moving away from a high forward single pivot design has made the single biggest positive improvement to my riding

Cant argue with science 😆

roverpig - Member

OK, so you want the bike to "pop" of things more than most long travel bikes. You could just ride a bike with less travel of course (which would also be lighter), but I guess you still want the travel for the big hits (e.g. when you cock something up). But can't you just increase the pressure in the suspension of any long(ish) travel bike to get the same effect?

Or use something lighter than Steel?

One of the other guys touched on this, but the Rocket is still a properly capable 150mm bike, it's just got a more playful feel than a lot of other similar bikes. Shorter bikes run out of travel for a given terrain and speed, and running the bike stiffer to hold it up ruins the geometry as it sits too high.

@timc - My Rocket is 30.5lbs with pedals, 3 x 9 gearings, Fox 34's, Reverb and 2.5" tyres. It's not that heavy, is it?

We've got two more Calver demos coming up on 15th September and 13th October if you want to come and see what I'm talking about. Drop us an email if you want to come for a spin.

Hi
For what its worth I have ridden both.

Whilst I found the 5 to be a very capable bike in that it climbs well and descends fantastically it simply didnt inspire me-certainly not enough to make me buy one. I got off it and it would never have bothered me if I had never ridden it again.

A mate of mine bought one cos he demo'd one and loved it-horses for courses. However he rarely rides it now and I believe if he had the chance would swap the frame for a Rocket and swap the kit over.

Me and the same mate demoed the Rocket at the Dales Centre in Reeth when they were doing the rounds and I was very sceptical about the whole "pop" thing but what I would say is that I didnt set it up particularly well and found that it bobbed dramatically on smooth stuff and I had to engage propedal to counter it. This is something that I never did on a DW Turner/Anthem/ etc but when it went onto rougher terrain the traction was fantastic to the point that I cleared the climb up Fremmy Edge in middle ring which I had never got close to doing before. This on a 31lb(ish) bike.

When we started the descent on the other side and I stood up on the pedals the suuspension seemed to stiffen (it didnt feel like a 150mm travel bike) and it did seem to "pop" off stuff rather than just roll over it. But it was still using all of its travel.
I suppose it depends what you want but we both loved it to the point where I bought one.

Its been built up with kit off other bikes but I feel that I have gone to far with a Fox36 160mm travel fork on it, in that it now weighs about 33lb and has lost some of its "sprightlyness" so I am going to put a Fox32 Kashima 150 fork on it to see what thats like.

The shock (Kashima RP23)that it came with is different to that on the demo bike (older Float RP23)but it still pedals well but with less bob. On some moorland singletrack recently it struck me that it pedalled as well as my Turner Flux.

Bear in mind that I am no expert evaluator where bikes are concerned but I have ridden (and bought) lots and I like this better than the lot of them.

I may well change my mind (as I do) but think I will be keeping this for some time

Cheers
Steve

cy - Member
@timc - My Rocket is 30.5lbs with pedals, 3 x 9 gearings, Fox 34's, Reverb and 2.5" tyres. It's not that heavy, is it?

Five frame is 6.8lbs - Rocket is a shade heavier, but it's a longer travel bike.

I tried a 5 a couple of weeks ago. Hugely capable. Extremely well sorted. Left me cold. Probably because I'm not brave enough to go fast enough to make it exciting if that makes sense.

I'm going to try a rocket in a couple of weeks. What I want is something like my ST4 but a bit more alp-esque capable. My ST4 weighs about 30lb with a dropper post so I'm quite happy if a M rocket comes up the same.

cy - Member

@timc - My Rocket is 30.5lbs with pedals, 3 x 9 gearings, Fox 34's, Reverb and 2.5" tyres. It's not that heavy, is it?

No, its not that heavy, I,m simply asking, would a lighter material not have helped achieve that goal, It wasnt a comparrison to the Orange 5 in any way.