[Closed] One for the Red Light Jumpers

ive seen too many accidents where cyclist have RLJ unsafely and been hit, hit others, or had 'near misses'.

FTFY. Childish, sorry, but was missing a word.

I know this is not the STW way but FFS...

If you want to RLJ, then do so.
If you don't, then don't.

Whatever you do, if you **** up and cause an accident, bear the responsibility and don't whine like a toddler.

If you really think that any RLJ is unsafe, you either don't cycle on the road, or you shouldn't.

I'm 39, been cycling on roads since I was 5 years old, commuted through London and Leeds, and never had an incident with a car.

I personally think I'm onto something, you may not, but as an accident free cyclist and driver, with a family and kids, I'm happy to continue in my accident free, no claims, no speeding ticket ways.

I despair at a lot of the narrow-minded someone else knows best nonsense on here. I don't mind you doing whatever you want, but don't expect anyone with a brain of their own to take any notice of your rubbish.

Despair all you like. The simple fact is you're choosing to break a law of using the road and you're only on here trying to defend your own actions and judgements citing poor cycle craft and road positioning as a reason for doing so.

Still ignoring my point then Ben?

OK BH, well done.

Personally, I find it easy to understand why people take a stance against RLJing for most of the reasons stated, and prefer to always abide by the signals. I'm impressed if they never break the law, that takes some doing. I say that in all seriousness.

I do find it difficult to understand how experienced road users who are making constant and countless decisions every journey, based on judgement and risk, can say that all/any RLJ is unsafe*, without realising that there are countless other things they deal with without batting an eye lid that are far more dangerous.

And if they do realise that, I don't see how they can't understand what a meaningless statement it is. "Any form of cycling is unsafe."

.

*let's use the deserted road, ped. crossing on red, ped. already crossed example. No shops or sideroads!

and while I'm on:

I'm 33, been cycling on roads since I was 5 years old, I commute through London, and never had an incident with a car. Occasionally, I decide I can jump reds on my push bike with no more risk to myself or anyone else than if I stopped and waited.

I personally think I'm onto something, you may not, but as an accident free cyclist, driver and motorcyclist, with a family, I'm happy to continue in my accident free, no claims, no speeding ticket ways.

I don't RLJ, and in fact regulary encounter the hypothetical example of the deserted pedestrian crossing. Near the top of a long hill. Near the end of my commute home.

If I don't RLJ, what's the worst that will happen? Well, I, errr, stop, and um, then, I, well... start again. This is terrible because??...

let's use the deserted road, ped. crossing on red, ped. already crossed example. No shops or sideroads!

Fair enough. I shall add in the wannabe superhero on rocket powered roller skates* 😉

* Could happen!

*let's use the deserted road, ped. crossing on red, ped. already crossed example. No shops or sideroads!

OK, quick poll (genuinely interested in the result)

How old are you & do you RLJ?

Me 42 & no

If I don't RLJ, what's the worst that will happen? Well, I, errr, stop, and um, then, I, well... start again. This is terrible because??...

Nothing's terrible, within reason! That's the point!

Smashing into people while RLJing at 26mph and giving them brain damage is terrible. Ending up under a bus with your head stoved in leaving a family behind becuase you did something stupid is terrible.

A great deal of other things aren't terrible.

OK, quick poll (genuinely interested in the result)

How old are you & do you RLJ?

34, no

Wrong side of 45 and NO.

Al, if you want me so say your example is one where there is a low risk of an accident then I'll say it.

Does that mean I think going through the red light is correct, no it doesn't.

accidents happen when people get complacent, regular commutes where they know every turn and everyday they take less and less notice.

Then one day, or one night, at that quite junction you jumped a thousand times circumstances change.

I simply choose not to take that risk; as has already been said, Red means stop, and for me it means stop because I know for others it doesn't.

Carrying doing what you're doing, run with it, but when you wonder why less and less drivers tolerate cyclists its because there are enough bad ones out there to spoil it for all of us.

Easiest way to be safe on a bike and I say this from my own experience if to be like a car, join the back of the queue, sit in line, wait with everyone else, don't cut down between cars and the kerb, don't drag race at lights-they have engines and are faster than you.

I simply do not get what you're up to.

join the back of the queue, sit in line, wait with everyone else, don't cut down between cars and the kerb,

blimey! I would NEVER drive to work, because it would take about an hour and a half! It takes me 20, 25 minutes on a bike*. And by your method, I'd be even slower than the car, because on the few stretches the car can reach 25, 30mph, I'd be going at 20. Sorry, your method is bonkers and unworkable on my commute.

*And, for reference, there are one or 2 out of 26 that I occasionally jump - if it's late and deserted. I generally prefer not to, and I hate watching cyclists cutting through pedestrians crossing on a green man.

Red means stop, and for me it means stop because I know for others it doesn't.

So you don't go on green either?

OK, quick poll (genuinely interested in the result)

How old are you & do you RLJ?

38, No (including deserted ped. crossings)

nedrapier - Member

So you don't go on green either?

I'm 39, been cycling on roads since I was 5 years old, commuted through London and Leeds, and never had an incident with a car.

I personally think I'm onto something, you may not, but as an accident free cyclist and driver, with a family and kids, I'm happy to continue in my accident free, no claims, no speeding ticket ways.

I think as with anyone who rides regularly on the road the fact that neither of us has had an accident is down to luck and judgement. Luck that no driver has been idiotic enough in his/her actions to run either of us over, and judgement that a) you decide not to RLJ, b) I judge each situation on its own merits and act accordingly, and c) that most drivers judge situations well enough not to endanger either of us.

So who's right? Legally speaking you of course, but as has been said many times we all break the law in some way.

OK, quick poll (genuinely interested in the result)
How old are you & do you RLJ?

37, with a mental age of 12 and yes, YES! every red light is an opportunity speed on through, every pavement another highway to adopt for my own use, every pedestrian just another obstacle in my way... highway code, road laws? bah.

Otherwise, 34 and no.

Lots of cycle lanes in Leeds Ned, the only place they end is at lights, which change, so I join the queue and set off again.

If a cycle lane isn't there you can't create one out of two yellow lines and you only end up annoying some drivers who then in future pull closer to the kerb and make the manoeuvre even more dangerous.

The bigger issue to this whole thread is that our infrastructure still doesn't support cycling as a viable and safe form of commuting, and people feeling they have to break laws to make it safe validates that.

BenHouldsworth - Member

Al, if you want me so say your example is one where there is a low risk of an accident then I'll say it.

Carrying doing what you're doing, run with it, but when you wonder why less and less drivers tolerate cyclists its because there are enough bad ones out there to spoil it for all of us.

At last!

But you think my RLJing is visible to other road users?

Oh dear...you've made an ass of u and me!

join the back of the queue, sit in line, wait with everyone else, don't cut down between cars and the kerb

On this particular morning (dry, clear, good road conditions) I saw a bloke on a bike waiting behind probably 50 cars. It must have taken him 20 minutes to get across the bridge where it took me two without putting either myself or anyone else at risk. Why would you do that to yourself?

I despair at a lot of the narrow-minded someone else knows best nonsense on here.

I despair at the convoluted nonsense people dream up to justify their behaviour, which is in fact entirely about selfishness. There's no reason to RLJ other than to shave a small amount of time off your journey. Just have the balls to admit it.

(34, daily city-centre commute for 10 years, no RLJing).

I'm interested in those who state they RLJ when they consider it safe and appropriate... why not do the same in your car? By all purposes there must be hundreds of junctions you stop at when there's no traffic and you could simply 'jump across'.

I'm sure you could RLJ in a car safely, and appropriately all day long - so why the mental disparity? or is it simply the fact that you have a number plate to make you identifiable to the 'powers that be' if you get seen/caught?

Al, you forgot to quote the bit where I still disagree with you

The bigger issue to this whole thread is that our infrastructure still doesn't support cycling as a viable and safe form of commuting

Why would you do that to yourself?

You would do that because when the lorry/car and caravan etc comes over the bridge in the other direction you don't want squashing between it and the large vehicle you are currently passing on the outside and there isn't a space to nip into to save your ass.

When you see the big vehicle coming towards you, you pull into a gap in the line of traffic on your side? Just a thought, seems to work for me.

cynic-al - Member

But you think my RLJing is visible to other road users?

[b]The bigger issue to this whole thread is that our infrastructure still doesn't support cycling as a viable and safe form of commuting, and people feeling they have to break laws to make it safe validates that.[/b]

36 and rarely.

don simon - Member
Two sides to every story and I imagine that if Mr Hyer had looked before stepping onto the crossing this might have been avoided

Just want to say, that in a forum full of idiotic comments, this is close to the most idiotic I've seen. Blaming a pedestrian for being hit whilst crossing the road at, presumably, a pedestrian crossing when the lights are green is amazing. The cyclist was the only one in the wrong here and irrespective of your views of RLJ, his actions, and his alone caused the accident. If this was a pedestrian stepping off the curb and walking into the road and the rider didn't try to avoid, they get to share some blame, as it was, none for Mr Hyer.

When you see the big vehicle coming towards you, you pull into a gap in the line of traffic on your side?

Where is queue of traffic that leaves bikes sizes spaces between the all the cars?

I come from a road club background the sort of things people are talking about just would not be acceptable by the old guard in our club, you'd be asked not to come back.

In fact, bring back Cycling Proficency tests.

monkey - I don';t want to give cyclists a bad name.

prezet - you can't see so much from a car, so it's more dangerous, and it looks worse, and is less acceptable to the public.

You are generalising about when us RLJers RLJ. Some are more careful than others. Sorry if this messes up your moral highground!

atlaz - Member

don simon - Member
Two sides to every story and I imagine that if Mr Hyer had looked before stepping onto the crossing this might have been avoided

Just want to say, that in a forum full of idiotic comments, this is close to the most idiotic I've seen. Blaming a pedestrian for being hit whilst crossing the road at, presumably, a pedestrian crossing when the lights are green is amazing. The cyclist was the only one in the wrong here and irrespective of your views of RLJ, his actions, and his alone caused the accident. If this was a pedestrian stepping off the curb and walking into the road and the rider didn't try to avoid, they get to share some blame, as it was, none for Mr Hyer.

How do you know? He might have had headphones on, been drunk, clearly saw the cyclist coming etc etc...

You would do that because when the lorry/car and caravan etc comes over the bridge in the other direction you don't want squashing between it and the large vehicle you are currently passing on the outside and there isn't a space to nip into to save your ass.

The road leading up to the bridge is about 1.5 car widths per carriageway so I generally ride down the outside of the stationary traffic before inserting myself into an appropriate spot ready to cross the bridge.

you can't see so much from a car

I can't see how that's true - unless you're already half way across the junction. I believe cyclists RLJ'ing isn't all that acceptable by the public either. In fact, it's normally the first thing they moan about when cyclists are mentioned.

I'm sure you can find worse comments than that! Don isn't saying that Hymer is to blame at all, just that it is likely that if he'd looked the accident wouldn't happen. I can't imagine anyone would support the idea that you should cross the road without looking, regardless of what the lights say.

How do you know? He might have had headphones on, been drunk, clearly saw the cyclist coming etc etc...

As I understand it, the cyclist was RLJing. Therefore, it is the cyclist's fault.

The idea of queuing in a line of cars while waiting for a light to change is frankly ridiculous, I find it hard to believe that anyone does it and I can't say I've ever seen anyone do it on my commute.

I come from a road club background the sort of things people are talking about just would not be acceptable by the old guard in our club, you'd be asked not to come back.

Understandable. Organising safety for a large group and keeping that group together is a very different prospect to making your own decisions about you own safety and your own progress.

I come from a road club background the sort of things people are talking about just would not be acceptable by the old guard in our club, you'd be asked not to come back.

Club rides aren't really the same as a daily commute are they? The ones I've been on aren't otherwise I probably wouldn't have gone back, asked or otherwise!

6 pages for what clearly is a black and white (or should i say red & green?) thread - really, do we have to keep on with this?

clearly is a black and white thread

If you take the time to examine it more closely, there are shades of grey...

It's not black and white at all.