ive been driving for 40 years or more, including work related driving. ive since moved out of London and generally am desk bound so dont drive too much in London these days.
However last night i visited my mum in camden, what an eye opener. There are cyclists coming at you from all directions, swerving across you, from behind, some with helmets, some with lights, they were everywhere like a swarm, add to that pedestrians coming from all angles, and in dark clothing, it was a nightmare.
First of all it unnerved me, then i got cross, then i just slowed down and let all the cyclists do their own thing, it was like the stars windows screen saver. You just cannot drive at all quickly without a risk of hitting a cyclist, its impossible.
as for the very bright lights cyclists have now, wish they all had them, as at least i could see them.
im an experienced driver and a cyclist too, and i have a lot of confidence in my driving, but i hated it, at any one moment there could have been a collision and it would have seemed to be my fault.
[i]some with helmets[/i]
They obviously got the ASA ruling.
Bloody cyclists!
i dont think any of the cyclists were actually doing much wrong, but the amount of cyclists doing different things at any one time was disconcerting and collectively it was so haphazard and chaotic.
im not slagging off cyclists at all, just saying how i saw it
Lester welcome to London 😉
When I drove in Amsterdam I didn't know cyclists had right of way. Phew it sounds similar to what you describe ^ 😆
Is it not the road infrastructure and layout thats crap?
[i]Is it not the road infrastructure and layout thats crap? [/i]
Maybe, but if they'd all been in cars it would've been gridlock.
TBH Camden is manic due to the herds of tourists in massive groups wandering off the pavement at the wrong moments. They don't think.
I felt like this as a pedestrian in Amsterdam.
Just didn't know where to look!
It was just how it's supposed to be imo
Bits of Cambridge are like that. I don't try to drive there, I take a bike (*).
You know, maybe those people who go on about how the best way to improve cyclist safety is to have lots of cyclists, are perhaps on to something....
EDIT: I'd take a bike anyway, but that's not the point.
driving in that there london village can be a culture shock to those used to other cities, it can appear completely insane at first but a couple of journeys and you'll get the hang of it.
cycling in london is the same, not for the faint hearted initially but fine once you dial into it.
You just cannot drive at all quickly without a risk of hitting a cyclist, its impossible.
[b]quickly[/b] is the key word here
Many car drivers seem to think they have some god-given right to have a clear road and go as quick as they want, but the roads are not so, they are a shared resource.
Commuters fed up with the volume of other road users need to get up earlier.
then i just slowed down
bingo, good job that OP.
Meh, It's that there Laaaarndarn innit... Who'd want to go there unless they had to?
Its a city that appears not to be [I]"Friendly"[/I] towards any particular form of transport TBH, too many people in too small an area trying to rush about too quickly. Thire various modes of transport are almost immaterial...
Triple the congestion charge for cars, double the amount of on foot plod and give them the right to hand out spot fines to un-lit, RLJing or pavement riding cyclists and you might change things a little...
I had to drop some kit off right in the centre of Mountain mayhem once late on the saturday morning.
There was a strip of tarmac from the site entrance to where i need to be. I stayed on that, at about 5mph. I can't tell you how many close calls i had. There were bikes everywhere. under taking overtaking, on the left coming towards me, i know why they called it mayhem.
But look at it another way, its what happens when car drivers get on bikes.
i just slowed down
congratulations,
Just because you are in a car doesn't mean everyone else has to get out of your way, I trust you realise that!
Busy conurbation, lots of traffic, slowing down is what happens.
congratulations,Just because you are in a car doesn't mean everyone else has to get out of your way, I trust you realise that!
Busy conurbation, lots of traffic, slowing down is what happens
Spot on.
Sadly there are many (including cyclists I might add) that don't feel that this applies to them.
Si
pedestrians coming from all angles, and in dark clothing
is my biggest issue.
nearly took one out the other night.I don't expect shadows to cross right in front of my car when pulling out of a t-junction when I've already started pulling out. but one did.
least there are bike paths here. although there is a regular that likes to cross across 5 lane traffic light junction with the traffic instead of using the bike/ped crossing that was green all the time he is sat at the red traffic lights.
just because you are not in a car doesnt mean you can dart where you want without signalling, without looking behind you, without giving any advance warning., which is what cyclists do.When was the last time you saw a cyclist signal? never i bet. they are normally going to quickly and need both hands on the bars.
im not all thinking drivers have a god given right to own the road, but at least drivers do think of the consequences that if the do something wrong it will impact on other people, where as cyclists only think of what would happen to themselves if something goes wrong, and they dont have to think about the consequences of what happens if they do something wrong.
@Mattig, "quickly" is the word here, no its NOT allright for a driver to drive quickly in these conditions, but NOR is it ok for Cyclists to cycle "quickly" in these circumstances either. ALL road users including pedestrians should slow dow, look BEFORE they act, be aware of other users, try and plan ahead.
My original point was being out of London for a while i could understand more why there are so many accidents. being a cyclist and a driver myself i would say the majority of the risk taking is done by the cyclists who put themselves at risk unnessarily so as to make quick progress, and im impressed by how much space and patience "most" drivers allow the selfish and blinkered transgressors (in this case, mostly cyclists).
and London is not a surprise for me , i grew up in Holloway and lived in North London for 40 years, it is mayhem out there
Lester - MemberFirst of all it unnerved me, then i got cross, then i just slowed down and let all the cyclists do their own thing, it was like the stars windows screen saver. You just cannot drive at all quickly without a risk of hitting a cyclist, its impossible.
Well done- that's exactly the right thing. Just imagine how much slower you'd be going if they were all in cars!
I know its the right thing, as the consequences are too horrible too imagine, shame the cyclists dont think the same way.
I still think this stems from the "car is King" mentality in the UK.
In CH, as a car driver, you accept that you are absolutely at the bottom of the pile, and if you hit anything else - pedestrian, cyclist, tram - it is automatically your fault. Think also like Holland in this regard.
Means that driving is always slower than any form of cycliing or public transport, and this acceptance subtly changes your mental approach as a driver and produces major changes in the way people as a whole drive.
Makes cycling a relative joy however.
Lester, took about 5 years for my mind to adapt to this mentality, and after that time you realise that it is just about pointelss to drive in the city in a car with any desire to make swift progress. Makes life a lot nicer once realised.
Interesting observations OP.
It's like the sun in you eyes debate. We all get irate when this is rolled out in defence, but happens regularly to me and can see why it causes so many accidents. You have to slow in consideration if what is behind you without knowing if anything is in front. Hence accidents happen, sadly.
The city is still designed around the car, when 90% of people walk, cycle or get the train.
Doesn't work for anyone, hence the chaos!
[i]You just [b]cannot drive at all quickly[/b] without a risk of hitting a cyclist, its impossible.[/i]
sounds fine to me.
The thing to remember is the other person's journey is just as important as yours.
Meh, It's that there Laaaarndarn innit... Who'd want to go there unless they had to?
About 9-10million live there and roughly 1 million commute into the centre, I don't think they are forced at gunpoint.
When was the last time you saw a cyclist signal? never i bet. they are normally going to quicklyim not all thinking drivers have a god given right to own the road, but at least drivers do think of the consequences that if the do something wrong it will impact on other people, where as cyclists only think of what would happen to themselves
...being a cyclist myself
Eh, so you never signal when you ride your bike on the road?
ive been driving for 40 years or more
You must be knackered?
Lester welcome to LondonWhen I drove in Amsterdam I didn't know cyclists had right of way. Phew it sounds similar to what you describe ^
I had a stint living in Holland and the day I moved out I got off the ferry and drove into The Hague. First junction I came to I overtook some cyclists and turned, in no way a dangerous action and before I knew it I had an unmarked police car pulling me over. Asked me what I thought I was playing at and I genuinely couldn't see what I had done wrong. Then started to give me a massive rollicking about how to drive with cyclists and could not believe that those rules didn't apply in the UK. He let me off in the end but was pretty incredulous.
To this day I'm still not sure what I did wrong but hated driving in Dutch city centres and only did it when i absolutely had to.
big_scot_nanny - Member
In CH, as a car driver, you accept that you are absolutely at the bottom of the pile, and if you hit anything else - pedestrian, cyclist, tram - it is automatically your fault.
Surely this is a rebuttable presumption?
tbf it does sound a bit like you are.im not slagging off cyclists at all, just saying how i saw it
Seen the [url=
video[/url]? Looks mental at first but in those first few seconds how many people got across that busy junction? Now imagine how long it would take for those same people to get across in single occupancy cars.
Having another look at that, everyone seems so chilled out that I bet if 2 cyclists collided and went down they'd [b]both[/b] get up saying "are you all right? sure? OK no worries off we go then" no who's fault was it arguments, just get up and carry on.
(could be dead wrong on this)
First junction I came to I overtook some cyclists and turned
You're not supposed to do that here either....
Troll. 1/10
In the extremely unlikely event that it's not, Lester I suggest if you're incapable of driving in a straight line and not hitting another road user, then you really shouldn't be driving at all.
It's the rise of the Fixie Hipster that has made it all worse 😮
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That's not a real fixie hipster, he's actually on the bike.
There are cyclists coming at you from all directions, swerving across you, from behind, some with helmets, some with lights, they were everywhere like a swarm
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There's too many of them.
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then i got cross, then i just slowed down and let all the cyclists do their own thing, it was like the stars windows screen saver. You just cannot drive at all quickly without a risk of hitting a cyclist, its impossible.
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