[Closed] Nicolai Helius AC -v- Santa Cruz Blur LT Carbon

Nomad C instead.

nah - i'm after ~140mm of travel.

i have a Helius AM for the Alps.

no-one ?

Chameleon. Rear suss is for losers... 😉

No idea about the Helius, but the LTc is bloody marvellous.

i test rode and have now ordered a ltc, i thought it was spectacular to ride.

c'mon then pedalhead and neil853 - tell me more...............

erm well it's the stiffest frame I've ever ridden, by quite a margin. Made my Fivespot feel like a noodle in comparison. Decent weight. Can handle far more than I can. I've done a week of DH in the Alps and 100+km XC races on it. Very versatile.

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pedalhead - thanks - confirming my suspicions about it's ability and adaptability.

sizing - i'm at 6' and think the large seems about right with 19" ST and 23.5" TT.

thoughts ?

what i found it did really well was maintain a neutral riding position all the time, by that i mean it seemed 'level' all the time. Whether pedalling, up hill, downhill whatever. Doesn't seem to squat so when peddaling up a rough climb it feels really quick.

The travel (pardon the cliche) also seemed bottomless, i mean i'm not a small chap (15st) but i didn't bottom it out, or i didn't feel it bottom out.

It is also incredibly stiff, there is little to no lateral flex which is instantly noticable when putting the power down.

If there was any downside on fireroad type climbs it felt sluggish, but flicking the propedal helps this.

I can safely say that i can't wait to get mine but i hasten to add you must test them, i know some peolpe have tried the lt2/ltc and not found them as good as i did, everyone is different.

I'm 6ft and have ordered a large

i'll get a shottie..........somehow............

the pedal strike on my AM is putting me off an AC, as well as the weight penalty, hence the LTC.

5ft 10 here and on a large. It's the only large frame I've ever bought (usually medium), but most of the measurements on the Blur seem to come up smaller than "large" frames from other manufacturers. Only problem for me is the seat tube, which is a bit tall at 19". Wouldn't be an issue except it's a tad too tall for the dropper seatpost I had. No big deal really as the post died within a couple of weeks anyway.

what dropper seatpost did you have pedalhead?

i900 thingy, one of the original ones. It was proper rubbish, but I understand they've improved the seals since then. Anyway, probably won't be a problem for you as I have fairly stumpy legs & it was only a fraction too tall.

new fox droppy post coming next year

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/fox-telescoping-post-titanium-crown-steerer.html

I have a joplin so we'll see how that goes

i'm on my 3rd joplin and this one's been perfect thro' the summer.

TLR - I take it you've ridden a VPP-2 framed bike before now? They qre quite different to riding a horst link. I'm sure you'd get used to it, but you may find the difference a little unsettling at first. They aren't what you would call particularly neutral but it does work very well.

Oh and pedal strike on the AM, really? Do you get pedal strike while riding it? Well I never. Who'd have thought. Funny really because you've never mentioned it before 😉

gt - no, never.

i almost bought an AC, but since changing jobs i've been looking at an LTC or a Mojo.

pinches - that's right - thought you had bought the ac.....

why the change of mind ?

I still love the bespoke and highly crafted nature of the nicolai but I decided If I was spending that kind of money I wanted carbon. Plus, I can get a really good deal on either of the above through work - if we dealt with nicolai maybe it would be different.

How about this:
http://www.liteville.de/t/25_29.html

Mr Rocks

I've owned both a SC Blur LT2 and a Helius AC. In both cases the same build with Fox Vanilla 32 140 forks and weighing 30lbs.

Differences: The LT2 was more sluggish on climbs - I love VPP bikes but this one was sluggish. LT2 head angle felt steeper and bike felt more twitchy as a result. Helius AC needs to be ridden hard, the harder the better, the LT2 could be taken more steadily across and around things. Helius is much more stable than the SC on steep descents, also more comfy and feels rock solid. The Helius suspension (air pressure and rebound etc) is much easier to set up than VPP - don't underestimate this as it can ruin a VPP ride. I fit a double and bash to my bikes - on LT" the lower grease port stands proud of the frame and proud of the bash guard therefor the grease port was in fact the bash guard - this was a major issue for me as I like riding over trees and boulders etc - the grease port was smashed and bent 3 times. This would not be a problem if the large chainring was fitted. I have the AC in the longest travel setting and don't suffer from excessive bob or whatever, it rides and pedals fine.

Similarities: Similar cost. Pedal strike on rough ground and small compressions (not a big issue but common to both). Perfect for UK trails I have been on, I'm not interested in alps stuff so I can't comment. I'm 5'10 and large in both sizes suits me perfectly. I have a fox 36 fork on another bike so tried it on both LT2 and Helius AC - not too good on either, increased the weight and made steering sluggish but gave both same trail destroying feel.

Where am I now. I sold the LT2 after a 14 months as the grease port issue got to me. I'm liking the Helius AC a lot and looking to keep it a long time - I have started down the slippery slope of spending money to reduce of it by a couple of pounds.

My recommendations: If you want a bike for long rides and trails without slow technical stuff eg riding over and along trees and boulders etc then the LT2 is a fine bike. If you want something that is a great all-rounder get the Nicolai. Nicolai are special bikes to look at and to ride (AC is my second).

Contact me if you want more info or photos of the bikes etc

Cheers

mike61 - whats your AC weigh in at ?

my Helius AM is between 31 and 33lbs.

If VPP is so great... of the six friends I have who bought in only two still ride them, and they mostly ride their hardtails instead and the VPP's sit unloved. The rest sold on and are back on single pivot (and an old elsworth id). Personally I find they have a dead feel I don't like... much prefer sp or 4bar.

Never rode a Nicolai, i have owned lots of others (405, 5AM, mojo SL etc).

The LTc is ace, im 5 11 and ride a large. The GF is 5 6 and rides a medium LT2.

I have a coil for bigger days and monarch 4.2 for general riding (when the HT just wouldnt do 😀 )

Rode an LTC yesterday .. prefer my HL 5 spot tbh ( at 1/3 the price too 2nd hand)

interesting comments folks - but there's no disguising the BLTc weight !

interesting comments folks - but there's no disguising the BLTc weight !

You mean lack of - it's about half pound lighter than the Helius.

Still, bikes are an irrational purchase, head said for me to buy a Blur Ltc, but heart said to buy a Mojo, I reckon you'll stick with Nicolai and justify it whatever.
Can't really go wrong with anything these days, anyway, they're all better bikes than our conditions and skills need.

vinneyh - i'm now learning the weight differential between the 2 bikes is less than 1/2 lb ......... !

i need clarification however........

does anyone know the true weight of a helius AC + monarch 4.2 in a large ?

tia

are you still keen to sell the bars you previously advertised?

Get the LTC you sound as if you want one.

I'd go Helius everytime. Mainly because they look ace!

mrclean - yes - what's your email ?

looks like a 28lb Helius AC is do-able on FLOAT 150's.

Hi

My AC is 30.2 lb

It is a large raw frame with fox rp23 shock, mavic 719 rims on Hope proII hubs, Formula Oro k24 brakes with 180mm rotors, XT crankset with Envy bashguard, XTR front mech and cassette, X9 rear mech and shifters, Thomson seatpost 410mm and stem, Azonic B52 bars, CK headset and Hope BB. I use High Roller 2.35 tyres with Dr Sludge tubes.

I reckon 28lbs would be do-able without going crazy on the money front. But to be honest 30 lbs feels fine as it is a chunky frame and going too light weight may make it a bit delicate for what it is capable of.

Cheers

I have Head for the Hills demo bike sitting in my shed as of last night. Once I've washed the mud off it I'll weigh it. For a demo bike it's quite a pimp build - CK wheels / HS, XTR, Thomson, Fox 32 Talas. I'll report back tonight.

heihei - good lad 🙂

still keen on the bars you advertised dude!

they're yours - email address mrclean please ?

mrclean@hotmail.co.uk

pics would be ideal - theres no email for you in your profile so iv been stalking you on here...haha - cheers dude!

one more week then my 2011 blur carbon will be here 🙂

I'll put up a report and pics once i've got it built and weighed. I'm hoping its going to be sub 27lbs :s

HftH demo AC comes in at 29.5lbs. Difficult to see where you could get much weight off the bike either, as noted above it's running some high spec kit. Tyres are 2.35" single-ply High Rollers so that's about the only place I can see.

For comparison i weighed my Blur (going to spain with it on Saturday so it had its first clean in 2 mts 8) )

Large Blur LTc
monarch 4.2
fox 150 RLC FIT
pro2/819 F&R
Maxxis HR 2.35 dual ply (heavy)
Hutchinson Barracuda DH UST 2.35 (really heavy)
Tech M4's
XTR/XT drivetrain (changed from Saint today)
Sunline Bar/Stem
Thomson post & fizik gobi XM Ti saddle
DX647's
Etc etc

29.3lbs using 2 different scales

i managed 27.5 when it had full XTR, pro3's/Stan ZTR and LUST tyres

Took the AC out locally first thing this morning. Conditions weren't as grim as I thought they might be - pretty slippy but manageable. I thought the AC was a very good all-round bike - climbs well, descends well, handles drops ok. Problem is it doesn't do anything brilliantly - it's too heavy (30lbs with a good build kit) to accelerate aggressively, the medium was ok with a 90mm stem but that combined with the HA meant it wasn't great on drops, requires a reasonable amount of propedal (2) to avoid bob / sag under climbing, and is quite sensitive to shock pressure. As I say, if I had to have one bike for everything, this could be it, but I'm lucky enough to have a few, so anything new has to really light my fire so's to speak, and it just didn't.

heihei are you swaying from the dw spot?whats your list of bikes and views against the spot? 😉

The DW Spot is on it's way out. TBH I never really fell in love with it, in part because I got a large (on DT's recommendation) and even with a 50mm stem and flat bars, I could never get the front end low enough. I also think the HA is too steep, and with 160mm Floats the BB is too high - both of which are being addressed with the 2011 version. I've got a Mojo HD on order to replace it. I also tried a Transition Covert which was spot-on geometry-wise but I'm not a fan of single-pivot bikes. Mythic Spitfire also looks interesting, as does the Chumba Evo Gen 2, but I'm wary of new untried pivot designs which both these bikes run.

Other full-susses currently owned are a Titus Motolite, an HL 5-Spot, and an Intense Slopestyle. The Motolite is a very similar design and layout to the Helius, but at under 26lbs really flys, and is used for long-distance rides, orienteering events etc. It suffers in a similar way to the Helius in terms of suspension set-up and steep HA, but has it's place for fast XC-type riding.
The Slopestyle is a very versatile bike - it can be got down to 31lbs and can do a reasonable impression of an XC bike, but at the other extreme at 35lbs and Totems can do uplifts and not-too-technical downhills. The first gen VPP is not as good as DW, giving kick-back in granny ring, but really fires you out of berms, and has a lovely slack HA and low BB, really encouraging you to pop off jumps, drops etc. In a recent outing, it left my mate on his DW Spot for dead on XC-ish riding. The HL Spot is still good fun and has been repainted yellow - I keep it for sentimental reasons as my son's middle name is Tuner (sad I know)!!

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mrpink - Member

heihei are you swaying from the dw spot?whats your list of bikes and views against the spot?

Whatever the latest and greatest is or talked about in the mags and forums 😉

I must sell my DW Spot now, it just doesn't cut the mustard anymore. 👿

Whatever the latest and greatest is or talked about in the mags and forums

There's always an element of this if nothing else the mags get to ride stuff before the rest of us, and to be sure, technology and design moves on. That said, I love riding the Titus and that's a brand / bike that has never had particularly good reviews or a following in the press / on UK forums. I also ride the old HL 5-Spot and like that a lot too.

I must sell my DW Spot now, it just doesn't cut the mustard anymore

@chunky : are you seriously still pedalling the ridiculed and out-moda'd DW spot ?

i thought you were a keen mtb'er ffs ?

dw is a non-evolved design ferchrissakes.

I have had my Blur LTc now for exactly a year, and I still love it to bits! Haven't had a single issue with the bike apart from having to replace the rubbish Cane Creek headset I got with it with a King after replacing the bearings twice in a month. The only thing I would consider changing it for is a 2011 green one! 🙂

hmmm that's the headest i've ordered for mine. Crap then is it? Have you heard of any other people having issues with them????