[Closed] new low in the LBS today

I sell tailor made safaris for a living, and while it's not directly comparable, people do use our expertise and then ask others for a quote on the trip we've planned. As we don't own any of the properties or have exclusive deals, they'll essentially get the same holiday from whomever they buy.

Fair prices, high customer service, and spelling it out are our weapons of choice against people 'shopping' us. We have a 'Guarantee' that is highlighted on our website and goes out with every quote. Hopefully this means people understand we offer financial protection, a local contact you can ask questions, 24/7 backup when you're travelling etc. Some of these you'll get from our competitors in the UK but not if you try and put the trip together yourself or use a tour operator based in Africa.

Perhaps bike shops could have a leaflet entitled 'Five Reasons to Buy Your Components From Us' which they hand to all browsers and information gatherers. If the reasons are convincing enough and the price differential is small enough they might win over a few waverers.

Page two of this thread is what the OP needs to read if he gets another eBay shopper in. The majority of customers are not like this. Most of us expect a fair price and a reliable time estimate for jobs that we can't or won't do ourselves. Most of us will put up with a little bit of a problem if parts have to be ordered etc, but won't put up with being messed around all the time. Many of us will purchase high ticket items from you if there has been a building up of trust.

If you are a good shop, you will do fine. If not, you won't. If I ran a good bike shop I would view that as positive.

OP which bike shop do you work in?

Just in response to one of the comments, price matching does happen in supermarkets. They actually do it themselves and if they are more expensive they give you a little voucher towards the difference. Least the do in my local sainsburys.

😡 ❗ :!:We sell outdoor clothing/footwear in our store and get "showroomed" constantly. We learnt a long time ago not to price match as you would get the response ",they didn't have it in my size"!. We reply, "well we do it, is the price on the label",only lose about a quarter of sales,but we explain we carry good stocks to maintain reasonable margins. OP's guy could at least have bought tyres or tubes for all the assistance he got,not even a packet of biccies!.

Diffrence is DT78 they are national companies negotiating big discounts on product whereas LBS tend to be, well, local.

Yea not saying LBS should do that, or could afford to, was just in response to supermarkets not doing it point.

I think the general gist is the LBS needs to maximise on the value add they can provide rather than the product itself which can be found cheaper elsewhere most of the time. If the difference is small most will go with the LBS (well I would) if the difference is 15% or so more I'll order online. I have to earn that money too!

I have no great issue with people buying stuff online
Just don't like those that take the Micky and want our service / time with no intention of useing us at all

OP which bike shop do you work in? [i]I need to come up with a list of parts for a new frame you you sound a helpful chap who could help me with my CRC order...[/i]

FIFY

70% of my stuff I buy online, the rest from the couple of good bikes shops locally (within 20 miles).

A new shop opened recently, a major chain, so I popped in.

I was embarrassed by the poor stock, high prices and quite frankly ridiculous staff... helpful in nature but clearly not cyclists or even interested parties.

A guy came in and asked for inner tubes, they didn't have any... so he asked for self adhesive patches, the woman didn't understand what he meant... he tried to explain, she began to get cross and said he should bring his bike in so she could sort out what he meant.

What troubled me was that it was busier than any of the other bikes shops ever are and there was a rake of people being feed bs by staff with no idea....

Good luck lbs's... you certainly have your work cut out but helpful, knowledgeable staff are definitely your strong suit.

Flipside:

I once worked with an extremely dumb colleague who would use his own phone and price matching app to help customers [s]get the best price[/s] rape our profits.. This was under the reign of a fairly new manager who'd managed to put our sales up by 50%, and profits down by 50%.
Thank god I was only on a temporary contract. That place was batshit crazy.

LBS needs to maximise on the value add they can provide

It is apparently free advice and trying on clothes

TBH I feel for the LBS and I am blessed [ ish]that Merlin is mine so I dont really have this issue.

Some folk really do take the piss IME

there is no way they can compete with a low cost high volume internet seller.

For a bit of balance...

For years we've had 'we'll order it in for you' aka minimnal need for stock spend/sell at RRP.

Now more riders can afford better kit.

My LBS charges list, takes ages to get stuff in when ordered and screwed up a bearing service on Shimano wheels. And then tried to charge for the work to fix the damage they'd done.
These days I'd rather buy the tools and learn to do stuff my self.

I miss 'my' LBS. Now living in China, I've basically given up cycling, because I can't get the service that I was used to in the UK.
I'd gladly pay a little bit more, for the knowledge that 'my little baby' was being treated well, and that I am supporting the local market.

all those bikes in china and no LBS???

How long do you give it before he turns up with a tapered fork for his non tapered headtube or a standard bb for a non standard bb frame? And then asks for your help? Happens all the time.

A running shop near to me got repeat business from me - I was a complete noob but they took the time to explain things to me about shoes etc. They said they charge £10 for shoe fitting because they get a lot of people who do it then buy off the 'net.
I have since been in a few times and they have been very helpful whether I've bought anything or not, so when I needed some more shoes they were my first call - they price matched their own website (could have been cheaper on other websites but I didn't want them to match those, only their own!) and provided great advice again.
Great example of how it should be done.

Junkyard... they can make it
I have two tiny Giant bike shops in my city of 3million. (Qingdao)

I took my city bike in for new break pads and a chain. 1 hour later I came out, and riding down the road my rear wheel rubs... buggers didn't tighten up the rear axle.

No way, am I letting them my proper bikes.

Amusing that they can make them but not service them

Bet you could get anew bike out the back door for the price of a service here 😆

So you don't have to buy your meat from tesco, or drink in Punch Taverns or use Halfords.

My LBS is the local equivalent of Halfords. It's better than 90% of "proper" bike shops I've used.

I think many LBS's are between a rock and a hard place. As an example I am currently looking at buying a new road bike and have test ridden 3 bikes at two bike shops - I really like one particular model but would ideally like it with Campag Athena rather than Shimano Ultegra, in the colour scheme that the Ultegra model comes in, and with a decent pair of wheels. The base bike is already £300 more expensive than an equivalent full Ultegra bike with decent Ksyrium wheels by the likes of Canyon or Rose, but with Athena and equivalent Ksyrium wheels it is going to be more like £600 more expensive. What makes it even more frustrating is that it will take around 8-10 weeks for the bike shop to get the bike I would like from the manufacturer in Italy, which is much longer than lead times for a Rose and even longer than Canyon.

The current business model used by LBS's i.e. manufacturer, UK distributor, bike shop clearly needs amending to reflect changes in society and technology. Can UK distributors play a bigger role than just acting as a warehouse - e.g. being able to make up the bike I want in one or two weeks rather than the current proposed 8-10 weeks? It's interesting to note that Focus are now selling directly through LBS's without the middleman, and offer some pretty competitive prices. Much as I am not a fan of the branding / design of Focus bikes they may be the compromise I will be making rather than going for my Italian dream bike.

What service they do do, is cheap.
When I lived in Beijing, I could service my MTB, for less than 4 quid 😯
Oil change on the shocks would make it 6 quid.
But to buy my Santa Cruz, it was cheaper for me to fly back to the UK and buy it, then it was to buy one in China.
If I bought a Trek, Spec or Giant (top end) it still would have been cheaper for me to come back to the UK to buy one (incl flight)

That is low 😕

My lbs is very generous to me doing stuff for free to my bike from time to time, and me ending up buying I already have or don't need for the time being to even out favors 😀

Philby.... an interesting point.
The world I deal in, the middle man is now being cut out, with often the retailer dealing direct with the manufacturer.
As you rightly pointed out, the middle man is taking a (large) cut, and is also slowing thing down, due to them handling logistics.
If the middle man wants to stay in the game, they need to put money into it, otherwise manufactures will go direct.
And that leads to the other problem, certain manufacturers (niche ones)can't make the volume to sell direct, so have to use a middleman to stock them.

Any serious hobbist mountain biker shouls be able to service their own bike. The last item on my to do list was brakes. Only me **** ups do I need a bike shop for anything.

The term lbs is redundant due to the internet.

My lbs is merlincycles 30 miles away...online.

We are all typing our thoughts on the internet. The same internet thats changed how we do most things.

As a business you need to adapt to this change or die.

Do the things the internet cant do - service and advice and selling bikes (with proper demos).

Dont compete with the internet, it will be a race to the lowest price. Stick a PC in the shop where they can order stuff from CRC on your account, pay you for it and you fit it next day when it turns up.

All the while you are selling them coffee and cake and letting them see the latest shiny bikes and bits that they cant buy on the interent.

Sell them skills courses, guiding days, uplifts, mapreading skills, how to use a GoPro etc. Use your imagination.

Change or die. Its just how good businesses survive.

Any serious hobbist mountain biker shouls be able to service their own bike. The last item on my to do list was brakes. Only me **** ups do I need a bike shop for anything.

Yes, but a lot of us don't have that much free time. TBH I'd rather pay the LBS to do the servicing so I can use what free time I've got for actually riding the bloody thing, even though I can do most servicing jobs (stop short of messing with brakes though, as I am a coward)

Philby have you test ridden the Canyon or Rose, you may have but I'd not have a clue where to go to road test either of those.
Bikes you can touch feel test and spec do seem to be dearer than mail order bikes. And put into perspective it's not too big a price to pay, and sometimes it can be eased a little with a small discount.
I mean that you can wheel a shop bought bike back for work if needed, and probably enjoy a relationship with the shop over the bikes life.
But as you say things have changed, but for the good? if that means buying bikes unseen off the net, but expecting the shop to be there waiting for when it goes wrong, then not a change for the best IMO.
Personally I think the bike, the owner and the shop relationship is all part of the 'it's all riding' deal.
Can't you LBS guys charge more for servicing internet brands?

Oh and wait for the bike you want, that's what I'm having to do 😥

I'd love to change my own breaks, but I don't have the space. I have no man cave (soooooo longing for)

But dealing in what I deal with (I see, what almost all you guys wear, ride, drive, live in etc) is built/made etc.

I support the local guy, even if it costs a little bit more.

Take your bike to serviced, cleaned etc by an LBS once in a while, the support you get back (hopefully) will x times better.

It's like supporting your local farmers I hope, that where is was for me back home.

Yes Mol, I agree, simple maintenance should be done at home, but I'm past that..not that I want to, I can't.. it's crap here... I don't ride, I have no room to do what I want to.. so when I can, I do. I support.

Mental. I hardly know anyone who can fit/change/replace bits on their bike. Why? Why are cyclists that lazy to learn? Its fun plus you take ownership of your safety. Too busy- it takes minutes once a month say. Loading in your car/the phone calls/park/drop off/drive home/repeat to collect take longer. Average lbs mechanics pushes me to pick it up

Rule #58

Hora.. not mental.
Why should I when it cost 4p to do so?
It cost me 4 quid for an annual service, and I know I am keeping people employed.
The other side if it is, when I get my bike home I have to adjust it properly, but I am also supporting a Grass Route Economy, and when a foreigner comes into the store and has his bike (albeit a single speed crap bike) serviced, it's great them, and again it supports the local area.

You have to look beyond your current picture. You Give. They Supply.

Any serious hobbist mountain biker shouls be able to service their own bike.

I'd rather spend my spare time riding my bike and help keep my LBS in business by paying them to provide a service.

Travis - it costs £4 for a service at your LBS? I don't think it will be around much longer, especially when you say

when I get my bike home I have to adjust it properly

Are they actually doing anything at all???

If I left my LBS to sort out my bikes every time they needed something doing I'd a) never have them at home b) have to sell my house to pay for it and c) ride with 120psi in the tyres.

Had the same situation as the OP a few times, spend ages going through spec lists, what to go for, needed etc, get to pricing, internet etc, price matching, usually with them having the phone out tapping away. It normally came to one of two conclusions, pay rrp and get free fitting, or they do one, buy online, only to come back in store and getting hammered on fitting charges to save a 5er on the initial purchase price.

When they have the "guru" mates, the "guru" normally ends up being an idiot.

I like bike shops, but do always feel they are a bit of a let down, this is someone used to work in bike shops. What I want is something with the stock and prices (well maybe with 10%) of CRC, with proper riders that work there.

Had one the other day, wanted some clipless pedals. Knew all about float, ohhhh yes. As I listened I realised that he didn't really know much at all, so I asked, and it turned out that, no, he'd never actually used them in his life.... He had not the first clue what he was on about,

Having moved to a country where ecommerce is more some kind of sci-fi ideal than a practical reality, I've come to appreciate the value of in-store expertise and assistance, and accept that it may result in paying a higher price for things.

Listen to Trimix folks! He has it.

I get the impression from reading through countless LBS threads that despite people churning out the trite 'they have to add value' to what they purvey, very few know what that actually means.

Promoting skill's days, uplift days, maintenance classes are all good ideas but it's even more simple than that! People buy from people is another cliche and yet also a truism. Buying online is an impersonal experience. It can be prudent too, efficient, convenient and many other things. A personal human experience it is not. So, take an interest in the person who has just walked over the threshold, what bike do they ride? What type of riding? Chat about local trails, conditions. Most of all, ask questions, listen and engage an interest as them as people.

Many years ago, I sold outboard engines in a retail shop, so very similar in terms of specialism to bikes and adopted this approach from the owner. Massively successful, rewarding and the customers kept coming back for spares, service and replacement engines.

My own experience suggests that very few people are actually interested enough in other people to bother ask questions with genuine interest.

I've been in 'a lot' of LBS, and it's a sad reflection that many of them are staffed by folks who are dismissive, ignorant, and opinionated. Been shopping recently for a new road bike, and the difference in price and spec between the on line sellers (planet X and Ribble specifically) and damn near every LBS is astonishing. My budget was £1800, now I know that prices have gone up, and my money doesn't stretch as far, but on line my budget buys carbon, Ultegra, mavic etc, in a shop my money buys me inattentive and rude staff, no test rides and in one case; telling me I need a 58" despite me being 5'10". and bikes? 105/alivio, and low rent wheels.

Cuts both ways this retail malarky

Philby have you test ridden the Canyon or Rose, you may have but I'd not have a clue where to go to road test either of those.
Bikes you can touch feel test and spec do seem to be dearer than mail order bikes. And put into perspective it's not too big a price to pay, and sometimes it can be eased a little with a small discount.
I mean that you can wheel a shop bought bike back for work if needed, and probably enjoy a relationship with the shop over the bikes life.

With so many Canyon, Rose, Planet X, Ribble etc bikes on the road now its quite possible you can get a quick test ride on a mate's bike or from someone in your bike club. One problem, particularly with carbon, is that each manufacturer has their own grading system therefore making comparison of quality impossible between brands, unlike comparing different grades of steel or aluminium.

I really want to support my LBSs but I have a budget of around £2000-£2250 for a new road bike - I can get a full Ultegra bike with Ksyrium wheelset from Canyon, Rose etc for around £1800 or a part Ultegra or full 105 with a poor wheelset for £1900-2000 from an LBS. To get an equivalent groupset and wheels on the models I have been looking at in the LBS I am looking at £500-£600 more - if it was £100 or so difference I would have no hesitation buying from an LBS but 500 quid difference on a £2k budget is clearly ridiculous. Plus to get my Number 1 choice in Campag Athena, with decent wheels and in the colour I want will take around 10 weeks and will be around £2500 - Rose have a comparable bike for the CSL 3500 for £1650. OK it won't look as good as the Italian stallion but it doesn't look £850 worse.

However if I do end up buying a bike from the internet I will take it to the LBS for parts and servicing that I cannot do, so will be supporting them in some more limited way - I already buy most of my consumables from LBSs and only occasionally use Wiggle, Ribble etc.

I can get discounts at several bike shops from my bike club membership, but the one where I have looked at two bikes don't have an agreement. I asked whether they would be able to do anything and the first staff member I spoke to suggested they could offer some add-ons such as pedals etc. When I went for a test ride I mentioned this to another staff member and he looked at me as though I had arrived from Mars - surely every LBS should have a policy for discounts / add-ons.

I think that those LBSs that survive and flourish will be the ones who innovate as a couple of posters above have suggested.

Having said all that I have never tried something in a bike shop (or indeed any other shop) and then bought on-line, so my sympathies with the OP. Indeed I will pop into his shop next time I'm up in Leeds

The OP does not need sympathy, he needs a new business plan.

The internet is a tool, use it well and it could help grow your business. Ignor it, moan about it, and you will end up like Blockbusters.

I'd love to support a bike shop however unless you are a high-flier who is working silly hours and can you give all your business to one retailer?

I think gone are the days where we looked in the back of MBUK at ads as the best indicator for deals.

The only 'local' that I'll do are coffee shops. Everything else in your life is a global economy.

With any business though- how can you not maximise your wage to make it go further? Bikeshop employers are just the same. They wouldn't shop in one shop for their hobby (forget the shop discount, if that didn't exist you wouldn't).

When people take the piss though - using the shop as a free resource, that is very wrong.

Interesting story- I popped into a bike shop (no where near home), browsed (as everyone does- and I imagine how most sales happen). Staff came over and asked if I was ok (I was trying on a knee pad). He talked for a few minutes and then left me alone. I couldn't get my head round the £50 price so I left it. I later popped on here and had a moan about the price/why so much/are they worth the money?

Next time I dropped into that shop the owner pulled me aside as he'd seen my post on STW and said his staff aren't free/dont waste their time with try on/shop elsewhere stuff.

For me, you pop into a shop post-ride and usually walk out with something bought that you didnt intend to. If I was specifically looking for a brand/pad why would I aim for a small shop for this purpose on the wild off-chance that they'd hold that stock? Hence my intent was browse not malicious using a shop.

Not been back since and wont. Sad really. I often pop into 18bikes again post ride for a browse. Again I've walked out with grips, tshirts, tubes. Maybe one day a Bronson alu?

Some people are just hard-faced ****s! Its as simple as that really (I blame Thatcher, obviously)

In a similar vein ... the amount of times, as a deigner, I've spent a lot of time and effort working up concepts for designs, presented them to a potential client, only to be told they've decided not to take the project any further.

Then a couple of months later, you open a magazine to see pretty much exactly what you came up with, that they've clearly got someone else to knock up on the cheap, basically just ripping off all your ideas.

You'd be amazed how many people think this is a perfectly acceptable way to carry on. Its depressing.

Bike shop owner/employee having to work for a living and not getting a sale shocker, what is it you expect some given right that everyone through your door abandons their freedom of thought

If you dont like the game!!!