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@andydt82 Couldn't possibly be that. Sonder have TM'd it haven't they? ;0)
I'd spend all day doing daft stuff liek this if I had a bike company. Looks like great fun.
I love the idea of it, but going 1x only means it's a no from me. With a chainring small enough to get a loaded bike up the off road climbs I tour on, I'm going to be spinning out really easily on the road bits.
Sorry!
I quite like this. Front rotor options of 180 or 160 instead of the normal 160/140 is a no-brainer. Why don't more people do this? If a bike will take a 50x700 tyre, why not have the brakes to go with it.
Longer front centre, less chance of catching a toe when the front end wiggles on the techy climbs.
Currently ride 3x9 and spend 90% of my time in middle ring. Playing with the numbers, a 2x would see me constantly switching rings. 1x makes so much more sense. If I ran 10-50 X 40, it would only lose the 11x50 from my current set up and be slightly higher than the 13x50.
@cy think I'll be looking for a test ride when there's a medium.
Currently ride 3×9 and spend 90% of my time in middle ring. Playing with the numbers, a 2x would see me constantly switching rings. 1x makes so much more sense. If I ran 10-50 X 40, it would only lose the 11×50 from my current set up and be slightly higher than the 13×50.
I've gone from 2x10 on the Vagabond to 1x11 on the new bike. On tarmac I can feel the gaps between gears far more on the 1x11 than I've ever noticed on my 1x MTBs. I don't think I'd want 1x on a gravel bike that was meant for carrying a load.
Cracking idea in my mind and I'm another who would buy one of these, if I didn't already have a very close match. I've a Decathlon Riverside 920; alloy & carbon, slightly higher BB, very slightly shorter and steeper. It handles loaded on long tours very well indeed and that's where I'd expect to find the Cascade living very happily.
I had wondered about the 1x gearing on mine at first but in real life it's not been an issue with 32t and 11-46, manages just fine for long bimbles in the Highlands on mixed terrain and on local woodland singletrack too.
I did swap up to a 180 front disc, a slimmer seatpost and, funnily enough, WTB Ranger 2.4.
If the frame on the Cascade is anything like as good as the one on my SolarisMax, I'll be green with envy when I meet one on the trails. The Solaris is very much my 'Trail' bike and that complements a drop bar 29er for trips away very nicely. Tour Divide, anyone....?
Like Letmetalktomark I’m also in the middle of a Warlock build. Helps that I’m using a few old bits too, 12x142, 100x15 (hope adaptors to 12mm). Boost would have been a bit more faff, as would be wheelsize, as I’m building it 650b initially with older wheels. Max is 700x48/50. I think that’s enough for me before overlap with a HT.
Not usually a huge fan of Cotic, despite respecting what they do, but if I hadn’t had the Warlock, I’d be ordering one immediately and dealing with the extra logistics. The Jeht would be on the list for a new FS too. Contrary to a few on here - I like the new branding. Top stuff.
@jimfrandisco Pretty much yes. The hacks we built that started this project were based around pre-Longshot Solaris frames. The full story (and horror pics of weird lash ups) are here: https://www.cotic.co.uk/cascade/
This is good news - If I hang onto all my bikes for at least 10years then they can just reinvent themselves!
The GRX build says 'Shimano GRX800 1x11, 11-51 Cassette. 11-51 might be an error, as it is above the official capacity of GRX. Or may be that have done something to make it work.
Might have a wolf tooth doohickey or similar to allow it, shimano tend to be fairly conservative on their capacity numbers
I believe Richard @ Cotic has run the cassette and mech combo just fine. We got goatlinks in to try, in case they were needed, but I don't think they were. I'll ask and get back to you...
Sure the bikerader review said it was 11-46 which is already more than the Shimano claimed capacity.
Edit:- just seen the above post. Of that's the case, it's great news.
That was the small demo/press/photo bike, which just used a cassette that was available at the time, it wasn't build to spec... getting cassettes for bike builds has been "interesting". Bikes will be built with 11-51 cassette, which are now in stock, and a goatlink I think, just to make sure. But the combo has been run fine without a goatlink. I'm just asking now...
I asked Cotic about the 11-51 and they have replied
we will be building the GRX bikes using a Goatlink:
https://www.wolftoothcomponents.com/products/goatlink
We have tested this on the bikes and it works perfectly. Richard has
been running a GRX mech with an 11-50 cassette and no Goatlink on his
prototype for months without issue as well. Shimano are very
conservative with their advised range for the GRX mech.
"
Very nice. That's the kind of bike I'll buy when I retire and ride to Cape Town or something.
Until then I'd still prefer this...
they have replied
Sam is quicker than me.
timf
Full Member
I asked Cotic about the 11-51 and they have repliedwe will be building the GRX bikes using a Goatlink:
> https://www.wolftoothcomponents.com/products/goatlink < We have tested this on the bikes and it works perfectly. Richard has been running a GRX mech with an 11-50 cassette and no Goatlink on his prototype for months without issue as well. Shimano are very conservative with their advised range for the GRX mech. “
That's what I said. Jinx. You owe me a bike,
I reckon raiding my parts bin that I could get that to run as a 2 x set up. I already ride a Fargo which I absolutely love but the extra clearance on this could be a real winner. Swapping for a Salsa Firestarter fork and Cowchipper bars would make this a very fancy bike indeed. It's amazing what you can ride on this style of bike. It is much closer to a proper mtb than any gravel bike I have ridden when it comes to technical trails.
I have just the very epic adventure ride for you that this bike would be perfect for. You might want to bring the sus forks though............ 😉
Cheers
Sanny
Idlejon How's the vagabond its a bike ive always fancied getting hold of
@sanny We are really keen to do that adventure! Shame the timing didn't work out last year.
For @boriselbrus and those asking, the reason why it is 1x only is because the use of boost chain line and mtb drivtrains means the only new, off the shelf 2x option is shimano, and they only offer 26/36 combined with 11-42 which makes pretty much no difference to the range available with a 34 or 36 x 11-51 cassette, but has considerable complexity and front-mech-not-talking-to-road-shifter complications. We also settled on this because even unloaded Rich and I and a couple of other test riders never found 34 or 36/11 top gear particularly limiting on the roads. You are a better and stronger rider than us if you want/need a taller gear than that IME. Given MTB 2x outer chainrings actually sit wider than boost chain line I am sure there are ways you could 2x a Cascade with older parts and hack the mech to talk to the shifter, but in terms of reliable things we can buy to sell to people in 2022, 2x is dead.
Idlejon How’s the vagabond its a bike ive always fancied getting hold of
Worn out! 😀
I love it - it's a good gravel bike for around here (S Wales) where the tracks over the hills are often too rocky for a cross bike. I've done about 6000 miles on it in the 4/5 years I've had it and always enjoyed riding it. The drivetrain is very worn out now, but the rest of it is in pretty good condition, so I need to decide what to do with it - sell it for a few hundred as a bike needing a drivetrain; replace the parts and keep it for when I don't want to ride the Marin; replace the parts and sell it as a properly working bike and possibly make quite a lot of dosh. It's a good position to be in.
2x is dead.
This makes us semi-decrepit lesser mortals weep
Yeah you are jon lol I have a gravel ish bike and sometimes I'd rather be on the 29er but then I'd rather be on a dropped bar as its quicker to get more to get to said terrain than the mtb , wish I'd picked one up a few years back when prices were decent doh....
We can still do it! The way winter is going, we may be able to do it sooner rather than later if you are still up for it? Seeing the final version of the bike, I reckon we will have an awful ot of fun!
cough ( https://bikepacking.com/gear/guide-to-mullet-drivetrains/ ) cough
I just watched the promo video.
That was a mistake.
You can go wider than a 42 on the back with a double chanset with minimal tinkering. A Goatlink or Sunrace hanger extender and a long cage rear mech will work if you want them to.
@cy 2x is still very much alive and kicking. Did you not get the memo?
Many thanks for the explanation. I'm just thinking about what I use my Escapade for and thinking that sometimes I would like clearance for a wider rear tyre.
I currently run a triple - 26/40/50 with a 10 speed 11-36 cassette. I use the full range, the low ones for bike packing long off road climbs and the high ones for road commuting with the odd fun bit. I've done multi day trips when I've not used the big ring for a week, but unloaded I rarely use the small ring.
Anyway, no bother. I just love the look of it and thought it would make a nice addition to the Escapade /Solaris /Flaremax stable (all with triples which you would have to prise out of my cold dead hands!)
@boriselbrus Firstly, thank you so much for being such a big supporter of the brand. I really, really appreciate that. If you like triples, that's cool, and I'm also glad you have figured out a way you can make it work on those bikes. Like I say, in terms of brand new kit we can sell people, there is nothing we can source that would carry anything like the level of reliability and warranty we need to offer on new bikes, but I suspect with some older parts and front mechs it would be fairly straightforward to get something multiple chainring running on the Cascade if you could make the MTB mech talk to a road shifter.
@sanny We know! We would offer it if we could. You need to talk to Shimano about how the gravel market is developing. Our 2x Escapade option is one of the most popular builds.
I've just looked at some pictures and that video.
I'm now looking at how much to change bikes. Hmm.
I have to say with a dropper that looks a hella fun! you can see the trail riding influence on @cy 's design, that lovely high front meaning you can comfortably sit in the drops all day and i bet it's stable down some gnarly downhills too
It’s brilliant for making less than stellar local trails engaging and fun.
putting the fear back into bridleways…
I’ve barely touched my mtb since I got my atlas back in November.
Where there is a will, there is a way. I reckon it is probably easier now than it has been for a long time to go 2 x on a drop bar bike. @cy makes a really good point that’s off the shelf, there are no easy options but I’ve done it myself on several bikes with real success after a bit of trial and error.
As someone who still runs a 20t granny ring on his fat bike, full susser and drop bar mountain bike, I do love 2x!
Interesting. In the last year or so I built up a frankenbike based around an xl pinnacle ramin 5 frame that I was gifted. Geometry not a million miles away from a l cascade. Ended up with a 490a-c fork, midge bars, 2x9 using a 22-36 chainset (mtb triple minus the big ring) and 11-36 cassette. Was quite good for stuff like over the long causeway past stanage pole. Typical 90s mtb territory, plus winter road bike type stuff. Took it away on holiday to Kent and did some of the gravelly stuff down there. I have some 36c tyres on it and maybe that was the wrong move. Might stick some 29x2.25 knobblies in it and try again.
Can’t help thinking I’d be happier with a flat bar and mtb brake levers though.
ooo, that video is one false colour shot and push past a fire away from the 90s. I like it.
I know I love the idea of this kind of bike but fear I’d never use it for the adventures it undoubtedly deserves.
Just a little update on flat bar stuff. We did some test In Real Life today at the workshop, and you can fit post mount brakes to the Cascade. It's 180 rotors only front and rear, and some Shimano adaptors, but it works. Info is here:
https://www.cotic.co.uk/product/cascade#compatibility
How has the 53mm chainline been achieved with the Easton EA90 cranks? Just wondering where that leaves the Q-factor.
Looks like a Raceface MTB chainring on there - they fit the Easton cranks no problem, and a boost one would increase chainline, probably not to 53mm though
I couldn't resist it, I've ordered!
I’m tempted to rebuild my 100mm XC bike around this frame. It’s very close geometry-wise to some classic steel XC 29er models, which are few and far between without going custom for big money.
I just wondered how the Cascade would fare when used purely as a lightweight 100mm flat bar XC MTB?
I link together the local man-made Bristol trails with tarmac and bridleways, sometimes commuting to work afterwards. My current skinny carbon XC build works really well, but the frame sizing is just a tad short for me despite sticking with it for 4 years. I have a “gravel” bike but it’s much more road biased.
I can tolerate another kg or so in frame weight so long as it rides well!
My current bike even has flat mount rear to IS adapter (interestingly running 160mm disc with the adapter Cy recommends for 180…) so I might be sorted there too.
@onzadog It's an OE special they did just for us. It's Easton EA90 crank arms, a Race Face turbine spindle to get the Boost chainline, and a Race Face Cinch 36t ring to get the chainring size. The Q factor is narrower than a Race Face Turbine chainset, as the Easton arms are less offset. It clears the stays by about 5mm, which is less than a regular MTB crank. It's a nice thing.
@teadrinker Thanking you!
@Ben_H It would be spot on for that. We have had a few enquiries along the lines of what you're saying. The adaptor you have is the correct one. The Cascade uses Flat Mount +20 mounting standard, so instead of working for 140/160 rotors, it works for 160/180, hence you needing a 180 rear rotor despite using that adaptor.
I’m tempted to rebuild my 100mm XC bike around this frame
Did think that for consolidating my pre-CEN Soul and a rim brake CX bike that takes 35mm max tyres, into a do it all gravel/singletrack bike. But then I just worked out that the most I could carry over is a pair of XT SPDs, a saddle, and perhaps the bars and shifters, and a set of 180 rotors.
So in reality that means N=N+1
The Soul is by far my most used bike, and I have/had no intention of ever selling it #26aintdead
Maybe for me a Rocket, Soul and Escapade is a better fit than a Rocket and a Cascade. Even if a Cascade would do 85% of what I do locally in one bike.
Hmm choices.
I'm really intrigued by the Cascade.
If you were doing long roads sections the MTB tyres will be hard work. Is there a suitable 29" gravel tyre for 70% road 30% b-way?