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As always with my bikes when buying used, i do my best to make sure they're 100%
As i had the cranks off i thought it made sense to do the pivot bearings too
[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51439587321_0db968e276_z.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51439587321_0db968e276_z.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/2mnxkbz ]2021-09-09_03-02-59[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/152318156@N08/ ]Steve Weeks[/url], on Flickr
[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51440553305_2bddf22810_z.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51440553305_2bddf22810_z.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/2mnChkt ]2021-09-09_03-02-50[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/152318156@N08/ ]Steve Weeks[/url], on Flickr
[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51438836542_5a6586efa6_z.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51438836542_5a6586efa6_z.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/2mntu17 ]2021-09-09_03-02-34[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/152318156@N08/ ]Steve Weeks[/url], on Flickr
I know i'm pretty much talking to myself here, but anyway.
I bought a tool for setting the B screw on the rear mech. As some of you may know the 12sp stuff is a different setting to 10sp/11sp, basically you move the rear mech cage higher or lower to set it in the right place. Now considering the guy who sold me the bike worked in a bicycle shop, i thought it may be somewhere in the right ball park..... Nah, not even close... So i've set it now and the gears seem lovely and smooth.
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Is that a little 3D printed part? Looks like a useful little widget.
I'm still on 9-speed which makes things easier with mech set-up.....
yeah but not by me.... some random ebayer. £4. Thought it was worth that.
Last job now...
[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51442916434_a63fe63c44_z.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51442916434_a63fe63c44_z.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/2mnQoP5 ]2021-09-10_10-38-52[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/152318156@N08/ ]Steve Weeks[/url], on Flickr
Sprung to 350 so it can be used this weekend by the boy as a spare emergency bike for him and his mate.
yeah but not by me…. some random ebayer. £4. Thought it was worth that.
Any chance you could provide a link please Weeksy?
Oddly he’s taken the 11speed tool and (hopefully) changed it to suit 12sp. The Sram 12speed tool looks like:
Although I’ve just seen various aftermarket ones on the likes of AliExpress that also look more like the 11speed one
That's a question i dunno the answer to... LOL... however, it's smooth and seems to work.
MAybe i'll buy one of those above to compare it to.
Oddly he’s taken the 11speed tool and (hopefully) changed it to suit 12sp. The Sram 12speed tool looks like:
Actually the original Eagle 50T B-Tension tool was the 'shark fin' style. They have only just moved to the newer style one (which measures at sag point, rather than static) with the bigger 52T cassette.
Oh that helps then as mine is a 50t so hopefully that's correct for it then.
You’ve got the right one. I have one just like it which I ordered before realising the sram group I had ordered came with the official one (which is identical in shape but red moulded plastic, not black 3D)
renton said:
I dont understand the LLS thing, I dont like the feeling of being so far over the bars on descents.
Since my FS LSS is near enough 100mm longer than my previous FS and almost 50mm longer in reach I'm unsure how folk would be "so far over the bars" on an LSS compared to a non-LLS.
Or have I missed something?
Or have I missed something?
This raises an interesting point. Haven't spent years learning to ride "over the back wheel" some months ago I read and then watch a video about the fact that LLS is supposed to be ridden in the middle or forward of the bike. I did try this on my HT and it felt weird, but pushing weight towards the 'bars on a piece of winding downhill single track seemed to result in some incredible front end grip and somehow force the from to roll out from depressions more.
Or I could have imagined it.
Since my FS LSS is near enough 100mm longer than my previous FS and almost 50mm longer in reach I’m unsure how folk would be “so far over the bars” on an LSS compared to a non-LLS.
Or have I missed something?
Probably - but there are so many variables I dont think anyone knows for sure.
With the same bar height, you will have more weight on your hands. Some people may find that unfomfortable or even painful.
Assuming that "long" comes packaged with "slack", and in turn that indicates a shorter stem:
- your effective reach (BB to bars, horizontal) may not have got much longer, if at all
- your front wheel is further away from the cranks and your default centre of mass: you will need to weight the front more. Your weight is still further back from the front axle, so the downsides of being "over the front" ie crashing are are actually reduced, even if you may feel like you are further forward.
vaguely related anecdote:
I heard once that a "experienced" (dyed in the wool traditionalist) biker had tried to tell my relative beginner friend that you sized a MTB by sitting on it, and in your eyeline the handlebar and front hub should be aligned!
Bollocks for two reasons. One, you size an MTB standing (and then hopefully the seat is in the right place) and two, I tried on my bike, which is arguably half a size to long for me, and when standing in the attack position I can read half of my headtube over the top of the bars.
Since my FS LSS is near enough 100mm longer than my previous FS and almost 50mm longer in reach I’m unsure how folk would be “so far over the bars” on an LSS compared to a non-LLS.
Or have I missed something?
I know the answer, but it would probably come across as mean, so I won’t post it here.
I know the answer, but it would probably come across as mean, so I won’t post it here.
Yorkshireman mate, you can't upset me.
It wasn’t you it would upset 😉
It wasn’t you it would upset
Lol it won't be me Jim, I've done the deed, bought the bike and love it.
However, I'm not convinced this thread is where it belongs as this is as much about this bike purchase as anything else.
I'd be more than a little interested in an LLS and riding thread though that's for sure.
Neither you Steve, more people saying they don’t understand something, yet offering advice on it.
550 spring is now in the bike, but as i've been away i've not had a chance to test it... It's a bit crazy but i've now owned the bike for a full week and i don't think i've actually been round a corner on it. The only ride we did was over to a jump area which was Ridgeway to it, then the jump line is fairly straight.
I've got a few meetings i can't get out of today, but after that i'm planning an hour out on it to try it.
Finally getting to put some time in on the G-170.
Local stuff only at the moment, but it's riding sweetly and i'm most happy with it. I'm not picking anything massively techincal at the moment, mostly because with only an hour i can't get to it, ride it and get back in an hour. But it's 'trails' in a proper trail context. Today i had a couple of silver trophies, which considering i'm at one of my worst levels of fitness and weight in the past 10 years i'm pretty happy with. But more importantly, i'm at a level of happiness with the G170 i just never got to reach on the Aether7, i find myself coming into sections which are tight and nadgery, or very narrow ruts etc and well, i barely give them a moments consideration. When i was on the Bird, they 'troubled' me and i couldn't ride as i wanted as i had to think about the trails more than just riding them.
By the weekend i should be able to get out to something a little more tech and tricky at Forest of Dean, so we'll learn a bit more
Neither you Steve, more people saying they don’t understand something, yet offering advice on it.
Probably means me 🙂
Its ok I wont get offended but first let me try and explain....
LLS to me means shorter stack heights compared to non LLS bikes. So to me when I'm going down something steep on a LLS bike the bars are quite low compared to how I like them on a non LLS bike.
Horses for courses though isnt it. Some people like the bars low, others dont!
You see lots of people adding really high rise bars to LLS bike to try and counter the effect
You see lots of people adding really high rise bars to LLS bike to try and counter the effect
See that was the thing that irritated me about the Bird. People said 2 things
1. You're riding it wrong
2. More spacers, higher bars
Now 1 i accept as very possible
But 2 surely goes against the whole ethos of the frame designers building the bike as LLS.
Weirdly on the G-170 i'm running my lower rise bars, not the 38mm rise but i think 15mm-20mm ride and i've even dropper the spacers by 10mm on the stem. But it ride beatifully and goes where i want it to.
^^Thus proving my point, Low refers to Bottom Bracket height, nothing to do with Stack Height.
^^Thus proving my point, Low refers to Bottom Bracket height, nothing to do with Stack Height.
Agreed, however generally the stack heights tend to be lower too.
Anyway I didnt offer any advice just expressed my own feelings on the LLS and why it didnt suite me:)
Alternatively folk* are realising that bars higher up are better?
* taller (esp long legged) folk
See that was the thing that irritated me about the Bird. People said 2 things
1. You’re riding it wrong
2. More spacers, higher barsNow 1 i accept as very possible
But 2 surely goes against the whole ethos of the frame designers building the bike as LLS.
Wouldn't it have been cheaper to have just tried 2?
For me even with 50mm riser bars and 50mm of spacers my bars are still below saddle level.
“Agreed, however generally the stack heights tend to be lower too.”
Where are you seeing that? On the whole stack heights are significantly higher than a decade ago!
Low in LLS is BB height, not stack. The key to riding long reach bikes with slack head angles is to have higher stack than on shorter steeper bikes.
Wouldn’t it have been cheaper to have just tried 2?
I did... i had higher bars and all the spacers possible.. i still didn't get on with it.
Yeah, head tubes may be smaller but stacks have increased. Bigger travel and bigger wheels will do that.
2. More spacers, higher bars
But 2 surely goes against the whole ethos of the frame designers building the bike as LLS.
Spacers yes. Its not a fault per se with the birds, just something to be aware of, the short head tubes means if you put some spacers in you are shortening that long reach. Roughly 10mm shorter for 20mm spacers, this can undo some of the headline figures.
Riser bars though take it straight up - compared to bars that are otherwise identical before the pedants lay into me.
Also remember that stack is to the headtube, back when stems were stupidly long, how much height were you gaining with the stem length?
Yes, your hands will probably be a bit higher than those on a classic XC race bike, which is kind where everything slowly evolved from. But they are also wider which will lower your torso and head back down...
Its similar (and related to) to those people who still maintain "get behind your saddle" on a LLS bike. Retaining techniques and fits from totally unrelated bikes from other disciplines or the past is a bit like Jason Kenny telling Richie Rude to bring his elbows in for more speed.
But its all a bit of a fluid spectrum, you cant say "a reach of X, headangle of Y and BB of Z is the cutoff for a LLS bike, and anything one side of that line needs technique A and the other side technique B"
I know i’m pretty much talking to myself here, but anyway.
Nope. I'm here too. I find it fascinating. In the same was as I might watch people discussing felat.. filat.. philate... stamp collecting,Morris dancing, music, darts, snooker, art or millions of other stuff that I know sod all about and have little interest in.
Vive la difference...
It's fascinating. 🙂
but it’s riding sweetly and i’m most happy with it.
This, I dig though.
i’m pretty happy with. But more importantly, i’m at a level of happiness with the G170 i just never got to reach on the Aether7
And this. Happy days.
Agreed, however generally the stack heights tend to be lower too.
Really? Any examples to back this up?
What've you done with the Bird?
Really? Any examples to back this up?
A large Bronson has increased about 40mm in stack from its original 2013 iteration to the 2022 model.
edit - I thought I was replying to the contrary statement. Yes, stacks have increased generally over the last few years.
What’ve you done with the Bird?
Traded it with the owner of the G-170. He wanted a lower travel bike, i wanted rid of the bike i didn't like. I even got some money.... heck, i'd have paid him some 😀
No examples sorry and maybe I'm getting confused?
Surely current stack heights are bigger due to the bottom bracket being lower on the LLS bikes.
I've found to get comfy on a LLS bike I've needed quite a high rise bar due to the front end feeling a lot lower than I'm normally use too. Judging by some of the comments I've seen online Im not the only one.
Im happy to be corrected though.
Surely current stack heights are bigger due to the bottom bracket being lower on the LLS bikes.
Whats cause and what is effect?
Even with big wheels, big travel and little head tubes, we are often using spacers and risers to get to the height we want. So we arent getting stuck with a stack we dont want, just because the BB (where it is measured from) has got lower.
Whether your BB is high or low, a given stack height (plus spacers and bars) and reach is going to put your body in the same angle/position regardless whether the bike is corner schralping low or peak district climb high.
or to put it another way:
I’ve found to get comfy on a LLS bike I’ve needed quite a high rise bar due to the front end feeling a lot lower than I’m normally use too.
if it feels too low, thats because it is too low compared to where your feet are (BB height) or possibly where your seat is (possible slight change due to steepening seat angles, but basically related to BB height).
Horrible horrible noises today from the rear end, so took it apart to check bearings, oh lordy they're bad bad bad. It's almost a miracle the wheel moves lol.
Need a plan there. Whether it's new bearings or a new wheel and new bearings I dunno yet. Bit a plan will be devised.
Frame or wheel bearings?
Wheel.
To start with, I've just ordered one of these, for now it'll go on, then once I've sorted the Stans S1 wheel that one will end up as a spare wheel instead.
https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/mobile/nukeproof-neutron-v2-rear-wheel-36t/rp-prod195303
Frame I've got plenty of spare bearings
Sadly I don't have all the Stans so had to order a few. I may try and grease fill them as a short term fix until the wheel turns up from CRC.
Didn't affect the 50km ride I did today, well apart from the emotional trauma of having a noisy rear.
HAving a minor shock debate on the G-170. Not for performance reasons but for water bottle reasons.
The Marz Bomber coil is ace and i've got no issues... but it does mean i've got the smallest water bottle in the world. 400ml is as big as it gets and that's only with a relocator bracket. I know it doesn't sound a lot less than 650-700ml that i'd be able to fit with a non reservoir shock... but it would deffo make some aspects a bit nicer out this summer i think.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/125085242167?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
A reasonable enough shock that... less than £100.... not sure there's any real downside to the discussion.
I feel you’re looking at this from the wrong direction. I’d rather get an offset mount for the bottle cage (or reposition down the tube if there’s room) or something like a Canyon Eject before taking a big suspension downgrade
Yep. Given the effort you went to, to find a bike that suits you, I'd be a bit reluctant to just swap the shock....I can't imagine it would be a straight swap - you probably need to factor in the cost of a shock tune as well.
I think I'd rather wear a small Camelbak/hip pack or as above use an offset cage (if one will fit) or funny shaped bottle rather than potentially balls-up the bike performance.
I feel you’re looking at this from the wrong direction. I’d rather get an offset mount for the bottle cage (or reposition down the tube if there’s room) or something like a Canyon Eject before taking a big suspension downgrad
Tried everything mate, i've tried a Lezyne relocator bracket, i've tried the Brid Bikes angled bracket. Can't get anything lower down as it hits frame on bottom.
[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51810477439_6a24008ed4_z.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51810477439_6a24008ed4_z.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/2mWjeTM ]2022-01-09_04-36-50[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/152318156@N08/ ]Steve Weeks[/url], on Flickr
It's that weird curved seat-tube that kinda kills any options.
I wasn't aware that either the Marz CR was that highly regarded, or the RS Deluxe so lowly regarded. I just thought they were both budget(ish) shocks and much of a muchness. Am i misguided in my thoughts then ?
I've nothing against the MarzCR in the slightest, it works ace. Just a bit inconveient at times.
Canyon Eject - 800ml
Those Marzocchi shocks are just Fox Vanillas with a new sticker on them. Great wee shocks and also nicely tunable if required. I would imagine doing back to back runs with the RS would show a marked difference
Canyon Eject – 800ml
That's got a lot of merit... never seen that in my life.... Top job, thanks.