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ashleydwsmith I think one of the reasons people don't take Halfords seriously is exactly the kind of cynical pricing they are pulling with the model linked above. £999 is not a serious price for that bike, not even close. That means that within a few weeks it will be 'on sale' at £300 off or something along those lines. You can't run a business where your number 1 sales technique is pulling the wool over the unsuspecting eyes of those who don't know better and expect those who do to respect you.
How do they get the chain in that cyclocross bike pic look like it's floating upwards, unless....OMG THEY DID!!!....they took a photo of the bike upside down!
The bikes are hung upside down by thin wire and photographed. If you look at the close up at the bottom of the tyres you can just about see the wire.
£999 is not a serious price for that bike, not even close.
What would be an acceptable price.?
In my local Halfords today they were selling Kona's?
better how?
Well, primarily as a result of being developed over years of continuous improvement of both angles and weld/material technology, rather than just being picked up from whatever cheapo Chinese frame shop had a free slot for manufacturing at the time. But also, because it doesn't look like an early 90s Corratec.
As above, a grand for that is a silly price. It'll soon be "reduced", as with Evans "reducing" the price of their own brands, on which they have total control over the price.
Oh, and..."RockShox Sektro". Poor, very poor.
Now, I'm not a typical Halfords-basher, really I'm not. They get loads of people on bikes, and that is, quite simply, a Good Thing. However, when they try and get on to this end of the market, it's invariably a shonkfest. See the utter tripe that comes under Boardman. Doesn't fit a massive amount of their customers, and then is often set up in a frankly scarily bad way. ( Only one stem bolt actually on the steerer tube, anyone?)
Nice shots of sheffield city centre in the vid.
Especially the giant urinal in front of the train station
What would be an acceptable price.?
About £300 less, from Halfords (given its a house brand). Put another way, the boardman at £850 looks to be a better specced, better thought out bike, other than X7 vs. X9, but thats not going to make a blind bit of difference to the ride.
I thought £999 for a SRAM X9 spec'd bike would be reasonable, no? I thought X9 was comparable to SLX/XT, so is that not pretty good?
You can often get 20 - 30% off last year's model on pretty much any brand - and I bet they're not making a loss even at that discount - so why should we have any more respect for the mainstream big brands that can afford to discount so heavily too?
I really like that cross bike (for a 20 mile commute)
Is there anything comparable from "proper" bike makes at that price.
as with Evans "reducing" the price of their own brands, on which they have total control over the price.
CFH - it's a bike brand not DFS, but we do reduce them when we have sales, why not?
We make more % margin on some big US brands than we do on Pinnacle. That's the difference that their buying power and brand-power allowing lower spec for the £ makes. And Evans get best-rate pricing on those brands due to volume. We make what we do on a brand we own but it's hardly a cash-cow.
Anyway. I like the colour-band graphics on these bikes. But 14 bikes are 1 better : )
That video reminded me of why I like riding. Every bit from MTB to commute.
The CX bike looks like terrific value and a great introduction. Who GAS if it's from Halfords? You all seem happy enough to buy their tools, tool chests etc...
CFH - it's a bike brand not DFS, but we do reduce them when we have sales, why not?We make more % margin on some big US brands than we do on Pinnacle. That's the difference that their buying power and brand-power allowing lower spec for the £ makes. And Evans get best-rate pricing on those brands due to volume. We make what we do on a brand we own but it's hardly a cash-cow.
It has nothing to do with how much money you make. It's all to do with deceiving the customer and making them think they are getting a bargain when in reality they are only paying what the bike is worth.
Christ id forgotten how many elitist wood burning single malt fancy coffee drinking audi driving IT middle management brand snobs there were on here 🙂
Don't know why I just watched a Halfords ad but could both bike manufacturers and retailers get over themselves a little please? You know the phrase [i]reinventing the wheel[/i], a mild put-down applied to those acting as if they've designed something which has been in existence for centuries? That's you that is.
Seize the crap.
If you go into Halfords expecting every member of staff to know everything about bikes you are of course going to be disappointed, but most stores have at least one person who is interested and knowledgeable. I like the look of the road bikes, and whilst the proof of the pudding is in the riding I think the £1400 road bike with 105 gears and deep section wheels looks like a bargain
Oh and my son has the 2013 £1300 boardman road bike and it really is a very good bike for the money
It's all to do with deceiving the customer and making them think they are getting a bargain when in reality they are only paying what the bike is worth.
So Evans make a bike to a good standard in Taiwan, that's good/competitive value and a workable margin to the retailer at that RRP, sell about 75% of the year's stock at the RRP then reduce it by 10-15% in a sale where they also reduce Specialized or Cannondale bikes etc by the same amount, same loss of margin. Where's the deceit?
I've had bikes from Halfords, some can be really good - the blue voodoo bokor I still knock about on is great
I'm not sure about that cross bike tho, Shimano Claris is a pretty cheap 8sp set (it's the 2300 groupset and they've given it a name) and the ali bladed fork with a steel steerer says no for me. I would imagine that the wheels are formula hub with whatever rim so you'd have to check the spoke tension and trueness. I would save up some more and get a Pinnacle Arkose
Well I prefer my Boardman pro 29er to my Salsa 29er. So they must have done something right???
Cube ltd sl - sram x1 group, fox fork, dt Swiss wheels and only £1149
Think I'd prefer this really.
Wondering if these are actually any good - apec on their mountain bikes looks OK to a relative noob like me. Was pretty much set on a Voodoo Bizango after reading some reviews, but there's at least a 3 week wait for a Bizango as there are currently none in the country.
CaptainFlashheart - Member
See the utter tripe that comes under Boardman.
Haven't seen anything from Boardman that could possibly described as tripe.
Which were you thinking of?
try repairing the things, odd sized cheapy headsets, crappy hubs, BB's that went out of production in 2007 (on a 2012 bike)
basically parts bin bikes.
These have been a good while in the making, since the re-invigoration talk of their brand, and the new ad's they pushed out etc... All part of what they've been promising for a while now. It's a big step, a big leap of faith, and pretty ballsy you have to admit! Good on them for actually trying to turn the mega-ship around. Time will tell if it works... I'd still be very very tentative buying from them admittedly, but that's no different than buy from evans or PX etc either...
At the end of the day, if the price and deal is right, it would eventually sway me!
I've bought a budget bike from Halfords in the past. I'm sure build quality varies from branch to branch, but my local one seems OK. Had no issues relating to how they put it together or set it up.
If they get more people on bikes, then more power to 'em, I reckon.
For all the haters, how is Halfords selling their own brand of bikes any different to On One / Planet X which are essentially the same thing where a UK company has gone to the far east and bought cheap frames ?
It's no different.
Except Halfords are better than On One.
I thought £999 for a SRAM X9 spec'd bike would be reasonable, no? I thought X9 was comparable to SLX/XT, so is that not pretty good?
yes its SLX and a bit level, but its not a full X9 drivetrain already, and the cassette may well not be too. Just On a bike like this front and rear mech are about 5>6% of value, so adding X9 instead of X7 mechs would only make a £975 bike worth £999, such is the small difference between them. Where I think this bike suffers is in the forks / wheels/ cockpit from what I can see.
The highish level of the drive is no compensation for what looks like Sektor Silver forks (which never should have been made let alone live on a bike at £999) or own brand wheels. Own brand wheels are tricky, because its hard to tell how good they are, but at this price I would expect that:
You'd see a half decent factory built set (DT M1900 or Mavic Crossride for example)
or
There would be a really good reason for going own brand, such as making it really light. Looking at the pics, thats a fairly heavy off the shelf rim with steel nipples, so I don't think this is the case.
A high level of drivetrain is NEVER compensation for the rest of the kit on a bike. I would always buy the lowest spec drivetrain with the highest spec everything else. This bike is the total opposite what makes good long term sense.
Add the that the terrible looking finishing kit, well the stem is something else but the rest looks distinctly mediocre too and you start to wonder where the money is going here?
Nothing against the bike or the seller in particular, but I don't think this is worth £999, Id rather have the £850 boardman I mentioned earlier.
benpinnick, you make a good point but, the knowledgeable STW reader is not your stereotypical Halfords buyer. I suspect the market these are aimed at are people looking to graduate from Carerra and perhaps feel the Boardman brand is a bit "staid". They want to see an X9 mech rather than X7 as that is a tangible upgrade they can see. Differentiating between types of wheels and finishing kit is much more difficult and so won't sell the bikes as well.
I have to say, I like the look of the bikes, I won't buy them as I think, with a bit of research, there are better options out there. But that's fine, I wouldn't buy a Specialized for the same reason either. I do like what Halfords are doing though, I've bought a few things from them recently as they are open on a Sunday when I'm passing (unlike my LBS who I'd rather give my money to...) and they occasionally sell the odd bit of good kit off cheap. The more good stuff they have the better in my eyes.
Lunge you're right, but thats why I dislike the sales techniques so much. Its not whether the bike is overpriced or not that counts - hell there's hundreds of badly specced overpriced bikes available for you to buy... its the cynical, overpriced today, on sale tomorrow approach that I dislike. Personally I think the OFT should clamp down harder on that sort of tactic to give the customer a better view of the true value of products; perhaps by limiting the amount of time a year a product could be a 'Sale' item farther. Big stores get away with it by 'selling' the overpriced product in some of their stores... except that often the product for sale is nowhere to be seen in said stores.
Matt Davies innit. The new actual cyclist CEO who wants rid of all the car tat. [s]First[/s] second move of many.
its the cynical, overpriced today, on sale tomorrow approach
This is surely the same for most bike shops or indeed lots of other sellers of consumer goods....selling this years models and then being able to discount them so heavily at the year end? Or the fact that a lot can offer 0% finance.
Maybe if they didn't then bikes would be cheaper to start with?
The road bike range looks better value.
Doesn't the internet or magazine price comparisons etc already do that?Personally I think the OFT should clamp down harder on that sort of tactic to give the customer a better view of the true value of products;
There's guidelines that already state that it would be unreasonable to offer a 'sale' price for more than 50% of the period that the product is available for, or for the sale price to be on offer for so long as to make the original 'rrp' misleading. Also that products must have been readily available at both 'rrp' and 'sale' prices and be fairly expected to sell in an open market at that rrp. There's not a lot of room to fudge the true value of something and there's always that buyer-beware caveat.perhaps by limiting the amount of time a year a product could be a 'Sale' item farther
I agree with the gist of what you're saying Ben, I just don't think Halfords justify attention from the OFT
: )
I think consumers are more savvy than that.
being able to discount them so heavily at the year end?
Or, being pretty much forced to discount by the model-year cycle and the fact most brands buy in enough to ensure few if any lost sales through stock-out, hence usually there's stock left over that has to be moved on when new stuff comes in. Buyers expect that sale period also and it can present some really good deals. No shop wants to sell too many bikes in that period - the discounts can go down to margins that mean you're hardly covering overheads or justifying having cash tied up in that bike for a few months. It's cash-flow at that point, not profit-related.
If anything bikes may need to be more expensive to get rid of that year-end discount thing - you'd sell less bikes at greater margin so a few lost sales at the stock-out times before new bikes arrive are offset. Forecasting and buying is an art and it's very difficult to get right in a weather-influenced fashion industry like cycling.
jameso - Member[b]being able to discount them so heavily at the year end? [/b]
Or, being pretty much forced to discount by the model-year cycle
Which the manufacturers invented.
Hardly dare to mention this last point, but don't forget that Halfords offer 10% discount on [u]anything[/u] if you show a BC membership card
Which the manufacturers invented.
[b]Bike[/b] manufacturers often try to get away from it : ) But when forks and gears change somewhere along the line every year, that means other changes, that means you may as well change 'x' while you're re-ordering, that means new codes etc, and there you are, pretty much a new range. Or, things get stale in a shop after a year of selling the same bikes and the brand that has new stuff gets the shops excited. It's a merry-go-round, fashion and competition are hard to escape from.
We/Evans have bikes that won't change for 2 years but they tend to not be mid-higher range road/cx/mtb bikes, it's rare to be able to carry a range over and still feel confident it's up to scratch but sometimes it works out. Halfords also have a 2 year cycle as far as I'm aware.
Escaping model-years would need to come from (or be helped by) the big component manufacturers and I don't see that happening. I'm not even convinced it's a bad thing overall.
I enjoyed the product designers take on the new brand on Road.cc,
“In the end I started with a concept that comes from my riding. I’m a slightly overweight middle age guy and I ride because I enjoy it; I’ve got lots of friends who are the same”, he said, and certainly that’s a very active part of the market right now. “I wanted an aero bike but whenever I’ve ridden an aero bike I’ve always found that the deep section wheels can be uncomfortable and the frames are too, and they often carry a weight penalty. So the idea of the 13 road range was for the bikes to be aero and comfortable, with no weight penalty.
😀
jameso - Member I'm not even convinced it's a bad thing overall.
You can't have it both ways.
🙂
Nope, and new stuff is almost always fun.
I don't think it is anymore James.
I think people are more pissed of at yet more pointless standards than they are excited about a 'improvement' so incrementally small that no one can notice it.
[b]We/Evans[/b] have bikes that won't change for 2 years but they tend to not be mid-higher range road/cx/mtb bikes, it's rare to be able to carry a range over and still feel confident it's up to scratch but sometimes it works out. Halfords also have a 2 year cycle as far as I'm aware.
CFH will approve 8)
RS, in the context that this forum can be more about product than riding and that's pretty representative. I think market freedom and us all being magpies to some extent means that's how it is re standards, new kit etc, there's no way to have one without the other right? New standards are part of progress, good or bad. Or, there's always Communism. But that's all getting OT.
Actually there's always a rigid, steel, SS 29er too.. ie it's only how easy it is to think new product invigorates the riding experience that gets in the way. Riding isn't about that once you find a bike that works for you in most situations. Get there then turn off the media.
Even more OT. Sorry.
Snowdonia really is pretty isn't it? Been too long.
jameso - MemberRS, in the context that this forum can be more about product than riding and that's pretty representative.
Agreed.
🙂
I think market freedom and us all being magpies to some extent means that's how it is re standards, new kit etc, there's no way to have one without the other right? New standards are part of progress, good or bad.
Hmmmm.
Not necessarily.
Technological progress can occur without feeding rampant, unnecessary and often counter productive acquisitive greed.
The rush for the new is not without consequences.
And acknowledging that the acquisitive nature of humanity is not always a positive thing is not Communism.
It's an acceptance of human nature.
It depends on the ethos the major manufacturers.
They currently seem to be focused on short term greed to the detriment of cycling as a whole.
Actually there's always a rigid, steel, SS 29er too.. ie it's only how easy it is to think new product invigorates the riding experience that gets in the way. Riding isn't about that once you find a bike that works for you in most situations. Get there then turn off the media.
Even more OT. Sorry.
Once again, we agree.
b45her - Membertry repairing the things, odd sized cheapy headsets, crappy hubs, BB's that went out of production in 2007 (on a 2012 bike)
basically parts bin bikes.
Mine has- a totally normal semi-integrated FSA headset, reasonable OE quality. Formula cartridge hubs- not light, becuase of the steel freehub, but reliable. And a square taper BB on an FSA crankset,unglamorous but practical and better than you normally find on a £500 bike. All perfectly good stuff.
Since i lack the ability to judge a frame from a picture on a website, unlike some folks, I guess I'll reserve judgement on how good these bikes are 😉
This is surely the same for most bike shops or indeed lots of other sellers of consumer goods....selling this years models and then being able to discount them so heavily at the year end? Or the fact that a lot can offer 0% finance.
The EoY sale is a bit different. Each party drops their margin in the chain, the brand, the distributer and the shop. Its not just that the shop had a huge margin to start, plus if bike companies insist on model years, then they've got to go... of course lots of companies do nicely without model years, you do wonder what the price of a Trek/Giant/Specialized would actually be if they didn't have to sell them off cheap at the end of the year.
Thats different of course to the Halfords model - They are pricing a bike at X with no intent of keeping it there. Its actual price is 75% of X, they just keep it at full price long enough to put a 'Sale' sign on it.
Lol at 'seize the city'. Wonder if that was when the silver bollards out the back of the Travelodge got dented? They could have made much better use of Sheffield from a commuter video point of view although they'd probably get in trouble for it (I cane an X around Sheffield on a daily basis)
Not sure I see the point of the hate here unless it's sour grapes or bike snobbery.
Boardman bikes regularly come in for a bashing which is probably unjustified, 13 looks set to follow.
The main valid criticism I see of Halfords bikes is the quality of store assembly work which seemingly can be very variable. I understand modern business likes to shove frontline staff between teams as 'resource' but when some skill is needed that doesn't work, and being charitable I'd guess that's where most of their spannering woes come from - and that's a management quality problem, not a problem with staff or product although it can soon be a brand problem also.
If I needed a CXy do it all I'd be taking a look, even if I walked away after.
Good luck to them, I say. If they sell bikes that get ridden, it's only good.