[Closed] Natural Riding is Much Better Than Trail Centres?

I like both - Do I win £5?

I prefer 'organic' trails to Mctrails, but they both have their place, particularly for a bit of light relief in the middle of a schlock filled winter.

I'm seeing riders coming through now that seem to have a bias for one or the other - Trail centre riders are generally faster and know how to fly on smooth and groomed stuff, whilst ROW riders seem to have more technical aptitude and line choosing skills.

I was quite surprised when I guided a couple of Cwm Carn DH sessioners round my XC patch - they were happy to ride the big jumps at speeds and heights that would scare the piss right outta me, but I left them for dead down Cheddar rockgarden, which is something I thought they would have liked, being all rad and gnarly.

They got to the bottom and couldn't get over it 'there were rocks everywhere' one said.

err yes. It woke me up to the fact that people are coming to MTB via different routes these days, and there are slightly different skill sets involved.

I have never ridden a natural trail and never would.. they are rubbish.. just old bits of countryside that no-one likes except sheep and ramblers.. If they were good people would have built roads and houses and trail centers there.. but they aren't..

My local trail centre is the bomb.. it has really good smooth singletrack and three sections with rocks.. The singletrack is really flowy cos it isn't influenced by stupid natural features.. AND Elbry rides there.. there's always at least 50 other people up there and I can get coffee if I want..

Lots of tongue in cheek comments on here (DavidTaylforth + Yunki im looking at you!) whether people actually realise that or not im not sure that they do!

Personally i've never ridden a trail centre but would certainly like to. I like the fact that you're less likely to encounter people coming up the descent than on a bridleway.
Theres plenty of room on this small island for everyone, so why try and limit yourself to one particular type of riding? Not everyone likes downhilling or xc mincing equally, so just ride what you like.
What i'd REALLY like are access laws in England like they have in Scotland i.e. See a trail ride it, end of.

Well I certainly enjoyed the (pretty much) exclusively man made trails in BC. Better than anything natural or man made I've ever ridden in the UK anyway. IMHO of course.

I've yet to ride a TC where Ive had to: stop/get off to go through gates (usually on the best descents!), dodge other non-bike users,ride on tarmac, stop/start to follow a routguide/maps etc. That said natural riding at its best just about wins for me!

'there were rocks everywhere' one said.

Yeah it's a fast trail but the rocks are pretty random, completely embedded and damn slick too. Once of my fav trails anywhere.

So all we need now Colin, is learn how to jump stuff!

In the end I don't consider people who only ride trail centres to be proper mountain bikers. They may have really good bike skills and be faster than me, but mountain biking involves finding your way and being self sufficient, looking after yourself for a day in the hills, not having the easy option of a walk back to the car if something goes wrong.

Heh - I only really consider if people on their bikes are having fun. 😀

I used to live in Peebles and rode trails in most of the Tweed valley forests, long before they became "official" trails and you had to pay for them. Once that started I never went back. Now I ride cross-country, quite often without anything much more than a sheep track across moorland and, of course, beaches and dunes at the coast. The best thing I even did was build a Surly Pugsley, goes anywhere, anytime. Go on, be different!

[img] [/img]

Gary
www.pugsley-on-patrol.org.uk
www.youtube.com/user/garybuckham

'there were rocks everywhere' one said.
Yeah it's a fast trail but the rocks are pretty random, completely embedded and damn slick too. Once of my fav trails anywhere.

Is the Cheddar rock garden near the top of 'Jacobs Ladder'. That's a real relax and go with the flow descent, fight it or looks at the polished pointy rocks and you'll be off.

Back on topic both types have a place. Trail centres can be boring and not being able to change you route on the fly can be constraining but wet the local trail are sloppy with mud nothing beats them. I guess if your live near lots of all weather natural trails then you'll never need a trail centre. I also hate stopping to look at a map so if I'm going to take the effort to drive somewhere a trail centre or being guided makes sense.

I thought you[b] had [/b]to ride at a trail centre. Where does it say that you can ride over the hills. That doesn't sound like it should be allowed.

Before I did mountain biking I did motorbiking, and you get the exact same chat, "Oh, trackdays are so sterile, I'd rather ride the route napoleon" or whatever. And you know what? That was total s**t too. It's all just riding bikes.

I prefer natural stuff but really enjoy the odd trail centre visit too. I like the way GT makes every muscle in your body ache the next day. Really enjoyed Mabie as it has that really natural feel to it and you can pick lines in places.

It's all fun 😀

The best natural trails are better than the best trail centres.

The worst natural trails are worse than the worst trail centres.

Sometimes, I go climbing at the local indoor climbing wall.

I'm [i]not[/i] a climber.

"Is the Cheddar rock garden near the top of 'Jacobs Ladder'. That's a real relax and go with the flow descent, fight it or look at the polished pointy rocks and you'll be off"

That's the one, and you're on the money with that description.

I just want the time and money to ride it all!

Sometimes, I go climbing at the local indoor climbing wall.

I'm not a climber.

And people who only snowboard groomed pistes, parks and halfpipes are not snowboarders?

[i]Sometimes, I go climbing at the local indoor climbing wall.

I'm not a climber.[/i]

Err... you blatantly are!! Youv'e just admitted it! 😉

I love Trail Centres.Keeps the half-wits off the good stuff.

In the end I don't consider people who only ride trail centres to be proper mountain bikers. They may have really good bike skills and be faster than me, but mountain biking involves finding your way and being self sufficient, looking after yourself for a day in the hills, not having the easy option of a walk back to the car if something goes wrong.

What a complete bag'o'****.

My bike wont let me ride anything thats not way marked.

Nice films Gary.

Yes...........

but the centres do keep other trails quieter and I am grateful for that.

imnotverygood - Member

I thought you had to ride at a trail centre. Where does it say that you can ride over the hills. That doesn't sound like it should be allowed.

it basically isn't...

Yes...........

but the centres do keep other trails quieter and I am grateful for that.

AMEN

I prefer plucking cattle from the fields and salad from the hedgerows.

If I'm honest, I don't really consider the preparation of food purchased from shops and markets to be cooking at all.

😉

but the centres do keep other trails quieter and I am grateful for that.

I don't think they do. I think they reduce the number of 30-somethings damaging themselves on the local jump spots tho!

but the centres do keep other trails quieter and I am grateful for that.

And the natural trails keep the numbers down at the trail centres.

What's your point, caller?

🙂

So all we need now Colin, is learn how to jump stuff!

I'm not really sure that I'm prepared to invest the pain and suffering involved!

😕

Trail centres are great for lots of reasons, most already mentioned. In addition, they are great for introducing people to the sport/hobby. The are also good for people who have time constraints - its nice to know you can take your bike somewhere, squeeze in a couple of hours of good varied riding and still be back home for lunch. I've nothing against natural trails and can understand that some people have more time and/or enjoy a different experience and type of riding.

Sneering and dismissing how others get pleasure from riding their bikes says more about those peoples own insecurities than anything else.

In addition, they are great for introducing people to the sport/hobby

I dispute this, they are neither better or worse. I lead a beginner ride every week, and use a trail centre perhaps once or twice a year

he didnt say they were better or worse... just great. you're arguement is invalid 😉

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or [url=

made[/url] it doesn't matter to me it's all better than waisting the day away on here.

I dispute this, they are neither better or worse. I lead a beginner ride every week, and use a trail centre perhaps once or twice a year

I wasn't talking about instructor led beginners courses though.

what proportion of beginners are introduced to the sport this way?

I wasn't talking about instructor led beginners courses though.

I'm not an instructor!

There's nothing to beat the satisfaction of riding challenging natural trails. It comes from a combination of planning the ride, the physical effort, the map reading, enjoying remoteness and natural beauty, the technical challenge of the riding, coping with the unexpected etc.

I do go to my nearest TC, Laggan, a couple of times a year for a blast and some skilz tuning, but would get bored with more than that

how do you lead a beginners ride without offering instruction?

The problem is that we build trail centres all wrong in this country: We try and make all trails rideable by everyone, which ultimately leads them being boring for the more experienced riders. What they need to do is to take on the Canadian trail grading system and build trails to fulfill all the categories i.e. green (easiest), blue, black, double black (hardest). Plus they need to to provide a mixture of fast, flowy stuff, and slower technical stuff within those aforementioned categories.

If trail centres were built like this, then we wouldn't be having this argument.

davidtaylforth - Member
The fact is, most xc mincers are scared to admit that they really struggle with trail centres. 1 foot drop offs and 3 foot table tops are a daunting prospect when your used to pootling down a smooth, grassy hill side with your seat up your arse.

+1

Surely trail centres/bike parks/man-made trails are the purest form of mountain biking: Anything else is orienteering mixed with a bit of bike riding.

Let's face it: Those who invented mountain biking just wanted to ride bikes and have fun, not spend most of their time reading a map.

**takes his devil's advocate hat off**

Personally I prefer natural stuff. Part of MTB fo rme is to get out into countryside /solitude and enjoy this. Trail centres are ok and I do ride occasionally. [LLandegla yesterday].
I can clear everything - did the new bit nice jumps weird [rough smooth slabbed bit]...was that to simulate natural stuff?. I think the best bits of trail centres are better than natural stuff - jumps, berms, etc. The worst bits are far worse - going up a fire road with no view and no technical challenge with lots of longish linky stuff that is neithe rone thing nor another. Quite liked Whinlatter for just climbing up then all descent down but would have to drive past so much Lake choices I doubt I will get there again.

The problem is that we build trail centres all wrong in this country: We try and make all trails rideable by everyone, which ultimately leads them being boring for the more experienced riders. What they need to do is to take on the Canadian trail grading system and build trails to fulfill all the categories i.e. green (easiest), blue, black, double black (hardest). Plus they need to to provide a mixture of fast, flowy stuff, and slower technical stuff within those aforementioned categories.

If trail centres were built like this, then we wouldn't be having this argument.

Can't speak for all trail centers but Kirroughtree sounds not a million miles from what you've described.

Scotland is the nearest you will get and I think they try and use the Canadian template for their trail grading system, but the places in Wales really need to add more difficulty and variety to keep people coming back.

If you think trail centres are dull and boring, head to Stainburn in Yorkshire for a tech-fest.

how do you lead a beginners ride without offering instruction?

I just lead the ride and they kinda "monkey see, monkey do" :o) I don't have any riding skills to teach 🙁

The best natural trails are better than the best trail centres.

The worst natural trails are worse than the worst trail centres.

Pretty much spot on I'd say.

With a trail centre you'll probably never have the awesome highs of the best natural riding...

Cresting a ridge and seeing miles of remote glen stretching out in front of you, with a ribbon of singletrack across it. Blue sky, green hills and purple heather greeting you with open arms, you pause for a moment to take in the silence before riding on.

But you are also much less likely to spend an hour dragging your bike through muddy fields, over gates and stiles while up to your knees in mud and three different types of shit, all the time cursing the horizontal rain while dreaming of groomed forest singletrack and steady fireroad climbs.

I just lead the ride and they kinda "monkey see, monkey do" :o) I don't have any riding skills to teach

Well even that is offering more for a beginner than them just heading off themselves.

Well even that is offering more for a beginner than them just heading off themselves.

right enough, and I would never suggest anyone did that!

But you are also much less likely to spend an hour dragging your bike through muddy fields, over gates and stiles while up to your knees in mud and three different types of shit, all the time cursing the horizontal rain while dreaming of groomed forest singletrack and steady fireroad climbs

Maybe I'm weird but a bit of pushing or carrying and some rain/wind adds to the challenge and therefore the satisfaction. It's also how you get the best rewards - no pain, no gain

What exactly defines a trail centre?

My regular haunt includes Leith, Pitch, Ranmore and Holmbury a few manmade or certainly man maintained trails and a few others that are a little less obviously manmade and a few cheeky bits it's pretty much a trail centre to me.

Afan was obviously a trail centre and was a good place to spend a couple of days having a giggle and getting some newbies up to speed, depending on how fast you went it got more challenging.

To me technical doesn't always mean slow rocky, rooty and steep it can just be a frame of mind there is a world of difference between getting down a trail and getting down it with some style!

Other than Scotland there is hardly anything in the UK that can be described as truly wild.

[img] [/img]

(From [url] http://abtrusegoose.com [/url].)

But even moreso as so many "natural" trails were originally created by people or farmed animals. Calling trail centre trails purpose-built trails seems better to me.

Whoever was calling trail centre trails McTrails - please don't. A lot of mountain bikers put a lot of effort into purpose-built trails with the aim of producing trails that will be fun to ride and bring smiles to riders' faces. Comparing them to mass-produced burgers sold by bored kids who are only in it for their minimal wages is insulting to the efforts of trailbuilders.

Both great for different reasons

your all too anal 😉

I called them McTrails, and I'll continue to do so thanks. I go there for my fix of quick, easy, no hassle fun. They're just like fast food. I think the analogy is a good one. As minor trail tweaker, I perhaps have a better grasp than many of the effort that is required to make trails of any description. It doesn't change the end result though.

Are you telling me that McDonalds haven't put a lot of effort into becoming the worlds most pre-eminent fast food outlet?

When you ride round the likes of CYB what do you think about the walkers on their purpose built trails?

I used to think they were silly, and then I thought about it a bit more.

This is a brilliantly pointless thread, but for my 2 euro cents, trail centres are too easy.

Learn your trade at Nany Y Arian, and ride there when you only have an hour or so. But ASAP, go and ride some actual mountains, with rocks, and risk, and all that.

Regarding easy/hard, my friend friend has a good saying:

[center]"if you are finding it too easy, go faster".[/center]

I have never ridden at a trail centre 😳

So, I can't really compare.

Thing is, you cant ride all-out on most natural trails as you don't know if there is someone round the corner walking up the hill.

Trail centres allow you to turn off your brain a bit and just have fun without worrying about routes or permissions or walkers/horses.

As i say, both are good 😉

Tim wrote:

Trail centres allow you to turn off your brain a bit and just have fun without worrying about routes or permissions or walkers/horses.

Not the case at my local "trail centre". You get dog walkers on the trails, families, joggers the lot!

This one always brings out the ' I'm macho and plunge off cliffs before breakfast' brigade. Each to their own, preferably both. There is no need to slag off those with different tastes to you. Ooops, that what I just did though, isn't it?

In short, trail centres are good, and so are natural trails...

...brilliant!

Thing is, you cant ride all-out on most natural trails as you don't know if there is someone round the corner walking up the hill

And what stops this happening at a trail centre?

And what stops this happening at a trail centre?

...erm signs saying "bikes only"?

One thing is for sure, I'd rather have these "purpose built" trails, than no trails at all! How many people here ever went to Wales before the trails were built.. it's a good thing all round!

...erm signs saying "bikes only"?

Never seen (or noticed) those at a trail centre, other than on a full on DH run.

If it's FC land, walkers have right of access to the whole place.

Come to think of it they aren't "bike only" only signs are they, but they do clearly label the trail as a bike trail. I've never seen any walkers on trails when I've been to Afan, CwmCarn or the 7 staines.

I've seen walkers heading up singletrack descents at Hamsterley. They're singposted as bike trails at the top, but there's nothing at the bottom and even at the top there's nothing to warn people against walking down them.

There's definitely no entry signs or similar at the ends of trail sections at Glentress. I believe there's something indicating when trails are bike-specific, too. It may not be as unambiguous as "BIKES ONLY" but it is reasonably clear.

I have encountered walkers on the bike trails at Glentress and Traquair, though. Mostly they've been apologetic when this has been pointed out. Mind you, I've seen MTBers on the walking trails at Glentress more often!

I've yet to ride a TC where Ive had to: stop/get off to go through gates

Tim - Member

your all too anal

I think you'll find that's 'you're'.

😉

Try trailquesting

Is it wrong to ride round a trail centre with a mapboard?

Trail centres are for carebears & natural trails for real men in lycra 😀

What I really find depressing though is I know a bloke who paid £4k + for a Cube full suss at London Bike show last year and ONLY rides locally to me (Suffolk) and no where else, not even Thetford appeals to him when I offered to show him a few trails on Brandon side. What a waste, people like that should be fined!

One thing that makes me laugh is "trail centres are too busy". I ride regularily at Glentress, one of the busiest trail centres, and you know what? Once away from the carparks I see more people on my local XC loops.

joe@brookscycles - Member

"This is a brilliantly pointless thread, but for my 2 euro cents, trail centres are too easy.

Learn your trade at Nany Y Arian, and ride there when you only have an hour or so. But ASAP, go and ride some actual mountains, with rocks, and risk, and all that."

Find some better trail centres. Can't recall hearing anyone at Laggan or Fort William complaining that things are too easy. Actual mountains, rocks and risk are all available at trail centres.

miketually - Member

"And what stops this happening at a trail centre?"

Nothing. But you can't believe it's as common at trail centres as it is on non-purpose-built trails...

What I really find depressing though is I know a bloke who paid £4k + for a Cube full suss at London Bike show last year and ONLY rides locally to me (Suffolk) and no where else, not even Thetford appeals to him when I offered to show him a few trails on Brandon side. What a waste, people like that should be fined!

Why? It's his money to waste.

I like options.

When i feel like a trail centre i ride one

When i feel like natural trails I ride some.

Great.

One thing that makes me laugh is "trail centres are too busy".

That's what I was thinking.

I rode Mabie on a Sunday afternoon on the BH weekend recently and only saw three groups of riders all the way round.

I met more people on when I rode the Garburn Pass on a weekday afternoon earlier that week.

I had Lee Quarry to myself earlier.....

'Regarding easy/hard, my friend friend has a good saying:
"if you are finding it too easy, go faster".'
In the same way as if the music is crap ,play it louder...I presume.

I've enjoyed the trail centres I've ridden in wales but there are some crap ones like the bore fest that is timberland trail in brizzle.