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'there were rocks everywhere' one said.
Yeah it's a fast trail but the rocks are pretty random, completely embedded and damn slick too. Once of my fav trails anywhere.
Is the Cheddar rock garden near the top of 'Jacobs Ladder'. That's a real relax and go with the flow descent, fight it or looks at the polished pointy rocks and you'll be off.
Back on topic both types have a place. Trail centres can be boring and not being able to change you route on the fly can be constraining but wet the local trail are sloppy with mud nothing beats them. I guess if your live near lots of all weather natural trails then you'll never need a trail centre. I also hate stopping to look at a map so if I'm going to take the effort to drive somewhere a trail centre or being guided makes sense.
I thought you[b] had [/b]to ride at a trail centre. Where does it say that you can ride over the hills. That doesn't sound like it should be allowed.
Before I did mountain biking I did motorbiking, and you get the exact same chat, "Oh, trackdays are so sterile, I'd rather ride the route napoleon" or whatever. And you know what? That was total s**t too. It's all just riding bikes.
I prefer natural stuff but really enjoy the odd trail centre visit too. I like the way GT makes every muscle in your body ache the next day. Really enjoyed Mabie as it has that really natural feel to it and you can pick lines in places.
It's all fun 😀
The best natural trails are better than the best trail centres.
The worst natural trails are worse than the worst trail centres.
Sometimes, I go climbing at the local indoor climbing wall.
I'm [i]not[/i] a climber.
"Is the Cheddar rock garden near the top of 'Jacobs Ladder'. That's a real relax and go with the flow descent, fight it or look at the polished pointy rocks and you'll be off"
That's the one, and you're on the money with that description.
I just want the time and money to ride it all!
Sometimes, I go climbing at the local indoor climbing wall.I'm not a climber.
And people who only snowboard groomed pistes, parks and halfpipes are not snowboarders?
[i]Sometimes, I go climbing at the local indoor climbing wall.
I'm not a climber.[/i]
Err... you blatantly are!! Youv'e just admitted it! 😉
I love Trail Centres.Keeps the half-wits off the good stuff.
In the end I don't consider people who only ride trail centres to be proper mountain bikers. They may have really good bike skills and be faster than me, but mountain biking involves finding your way and being self sufficient, looking after yourself for a day in the hills, not having the easy option of a walk back to the car if something goes wrong.
What a complete bag'o'****.
My bike wont let me ride anything thats not way marked.
Nice films Gary.
Yes...........
but the centres do keep other trails quieter and I am grateful for that.
imnotverygood - MemberI thought you had to ride at a trail centre. Where does it say that you can ride over the hills. That doesn't sound like it should be allowed.
it basically isn't...
Yes...........but the centres do keep other trails quieter and I am grateful for that.
AMEN
I prefer plucking cattle from the fields and salad from the hedgerows.
If I'm honest, I don't really consider the preparation of food purchased from shops and markets to be cooking at all.
😉
but the centres do keep other trails quieter and I am grateful for that.
I don't think they do. I think they reduce the number of 30-somethings damaging themselves on the local jump spots tho!
but the centres do keep other trails quieter and I am grateful for that.
And the natural trails keep the numbers down at the trail centres.
What's your point, caller?
🙂
So all we need now Colin, is learn how to jump stuff!
I'm not really sure that I'm prepared to invest the pain and suffering involved!
😕
Trail centres are great for lots of reasons, most already mentioned. In addition, they are great for introducing people to the sport/hobby. The are also good for people who have time constraints - its nice to know you can take your bike somewhere, squeeze in a couple of hours of good varied riding and still be back home for lunch. I've nothing against natural trails and can understand that some people have more time and/or enjoy a different experience and type of riding.
Sneering and dismissing how others get pleasure from riding their bikes says more about those peoples own insecurities than anything else.
In addition, they are great for introducing people to the sport/hobby
I dispute this, they are neither better or worse. I lead a beginner ride every week, and use a trail centre perhaps once or twice a year
he didnt say they were better or worse... just great. you're arguement is invalid 😉
[url=
or [url=
made[/url] it doesn't matter to me it's all better than waisting the day away on here.
I dispute this, they are neither better or worse. I lead a beginner ride every week, and use a trail centre perhaps once or twice a year
I wasn't talking about instructor led beginners courses though.
what proportion of beginners are introduced to the sport this way?
I wasn't talking about instructor led beginners courses though.
I'm not an instructor!
There's nothing to beat the satisfaction of riding challenging natural trails. It comes from a combination of planning the ride, the physical effort, the map reading, enjoying remoteness and natural beauty, the technical challenge of the riding, coping with the unexpected etc.
I do go to my nearest TC, Laggan, a couple of times a year for a blast and some skilz tuning, but would get bored with more than that
how do you lead a beginners ride without offering instruction?
The problem is that we build trail centres all wrong in this country: We try and make all trails rideable by everyone, which ultimately leads them being boring for the more experienced riders. What they need to do is to take on the Canadian trail grading system and build trails to fulfill all the categories i.e. green (easiest), blue, black, double black (hardest). Plus they need to to provide a mixture of fast, flowy stuff, and slower technical stuff within those aforementioned categories.
If trail centres were built like this, then we wouldn't be having this argument.
davidtaylforth - Member
The fact is, most xc mincers are scared to admit that they really struggle with trail centres. 1 foot drop offs and 3 foot table tops are a daunting prospect when your used to pootling down a smooth, grassy hill side with your seat up your arse.
+1
Surely trail centres/bike parks/man-made trails are the purest form of mountain biking: Anything else is orienteering mixed with a bit of bike riding.
Let's face it: Those who invented mountain biking just wanted to ride bikes and have fun, not spend most of their time reading a map.
**takes his devil's advocate hat off**
Personally I prefer natural stuff. Part of MTB fo rme is to get out into countryside /solitude and enjoy this. Trail centres are ok and I do ride occasionally. [LLandegla yesterday].
I can clear everything - did the new bit nice jumps weird [rough smooth slabbed bit]...was that to simulate natural stuff?. I think the best bits of trail centres are better than natural stuff - jumps, berms, etc. The worst bits are far worse - going up a fire road with no view and no technical challenge with lots of longish linky stuff that is neithe rone thing nor another. Quite liked Whinlatter for just climbing up then all descent down but would have to drive past so much Lake choices I doubt I will get there again.
The problem is that we build trail centres all wrong in this country: We try and make all trails rideable by everyone, which ultimately leads them being boring for the more experienced riders. What they need to do is to take on the Canadian trail grading system and build trails to fulfill all the categories i.e. green (easiest), blue, black, double black (hardest). Plus they need to to provide a mixture of fast, flowy stuff, and slower technical stuff within those aforementioned categories.If trail centres were built like this, then we wouldn't be having this argument.
Can't speak for all trail centers but Kirroughtree sounds not a million miles from what you've described.
Scotland is the nearest you will get and I think they try and use the Canadian template for their trail grading system, but the places in Wales really need to add more difficulty and variety to keep people coming back.
If you think trail centres are dull and boring, head to Stainburn in Yorkshire for a tech-fest.
how do you lead a beginners ride without offering instruction?
I just lead the ride and they kinda "monkey see, monkey do" :o) I don't have any riding skills to teach 🙁
The best natural trails are better than the best trail centres.The worst natural trails are worse than the worst trail centres.
Pretty much spot on I'd say.
With a trail centre you'll probably never have the awesome highs of the best natural riding...
Cresting a ridge and seeing miles of remote glen stretching out in front of you, with a ribbon of singletrack across it. Blue sky, green hills and purple heather greeting you with open arms, you pause for a moment to take in the silence before riding on.
But you are also much less likely to spend an hour dragging your bike through muddy fields, over gates and stiles while up to your knees in mud and three different types of shit, all the time cursing the horizontal rain while dreaming of groomed forest singletrack and steady fireroad climbs.
I just lead the ride and they kinda "monkey see, monkey do" :o) I don't have any riding skills to teach
Well even that is offering more for a beginner than them just heading off themselves.
Well even that is offering more for a beginner than them just heading off themselves.
right enough, and I would never suggest anyone did that!
But you are also much less likely to spend an hour dragging your bike through muddy fields, over gates and stiles while up to your knees in mud and three different types of shit, all the time cursing the horizontal rain while dreaming of groomed forest singletrack and steady fireroad climbs
Maybe I'm weird but a bit of pushing or carrying and some rain/wind adds to the challenge and therefore the satisfaction. It's also how you get the best rewards - no pain, no gain
What exactly defines a trail centre?
My regular haunt includes Leith, Pitch, Ranmore and Holmbury a few manmade or certainly man maintained trails and a few others that are a little less obviously manmade and a few cheeky bits it's pretty much a trail centre to me.
Afan was obviously a trail centre and was a good place to spend a couple of days having a giggle and getting some newbies up to speed, depending on how fast you went it got more challenging.
To me technical doesn't always mean slow rocky, rooty and steep it can just be a frame of mind there is a world of difference between getting down a trail and getting down it with some style!
Other than Scotland there is hardly anything in the UK that can be described as truly wild.
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(From [url] http://abtrusegoose.com [/url].)
But even moreso as so many "natural" trails were originally created by people or farmed animals. Calling trail centre trails purpose-built trails seems better to me.
Whoever was calling trail centre trails McTrails - please don't. A lot of mountain bikers put a lot of effort into purpose-built trails with the aim of producing trails that will be fun to ride and bring smiles to riders' faces. Comparing them to mass-produced burgers sold by bored kids who are only in it for their minimal wages is insulting to the efforts of trailbuilders.
Both great for different reasons
your all too anal 😉
I called them McTrails, and I'll continue to do so thanks. I go there for my fix of quick, easy, no hassle fun. They're just like fast food. I think the analogy is a good one. As minor trail tweaker, I perhaps have a better grasp than many of the effort that is required to make trails of any description. It doesn't change the end result though.
Are you telling me that McDonalds haven't put a lot of effort into becoming the worlds most pre-eminent fast food outlet?
When you ride round the likes of CYB what do you think about the walkers on their purpose built trails?
I used to think they were silly, and then I thought about it a bit more.