who, ever, in the history of anything has had a bike helmet which makes your head twice the size?!!
[i][b]TEAM MCCOY[/i][/b]
double post
My full face makes my head 1.5x bigger tops, so how does a polystyrine lid double it?
I agree everything is all down to the individual, but let's be honest, they do reduce the effect of injury most of the time, but if you feel like you have a low risk of crashing I can understand where you're coming from.
However having cylced on the road a lot to get places, I will always wear one even though I like to think I am a good cyclist. The reason being this: Sh*t Happens!
Case in point: came down a hill, with easily my braking distance between me and the car in front, and I'm having to feather my brakes to keep this distance. Some goon then overtakes me and tucks in within a meter of my front wheel. I'm rather annoyed and begin to back off, so that I have a sensible distnace between me and him. Before I can do this however the guy in front of him did an emergency stop (**** knows why), and I slam on my brakes but still smash into this twerp's rear end. My helmet hit his rear window and stopped my head doing so, and given I was still recovering from a mild concussion the helmet did it's job. It did not make me invulnerable, but I'm still glad I wore it.
Kit's accident is a much more extreme example, and the same happened to a mate of mine (though not as badly as Kit). The cyclists were not at fault in these crashes, therefore it makes sense to wear the helmet all the time as things beyond your control can happen. I am not an evangelical "wear the helmet or you DIE!!!!!" person, but common sense states that surely you might as well wear it for when things like this do happen, and given how many cr@p drivers there are out there these accidents are more common that most of us would like.
I'm with TJ on this!
I do wear a helmet. However people seem to have misconceptions as to what a helmet is designed for. A standard bike helmet is tested fo impacts up to 12 mph which roughly equates to going over the bars whilst riding slowly NOT being hit by a car, flying into a tree or rock off road etc.
Helmet wearing is a personal choice and should be based on an understanding of what they are designed to do. I really don't want legal compulsion and nor should you!
Edit! Can someone provide the stats showing that helmet compulsion in Australia made no difference to head injuries?
With a helmet on, one has a problem inserting head up ones ****....
adstick
Its linked to off the cyclehelmets.org site.
It is flawed research as well - there are some vilid critisims of it
A standard bike helmet is tested fo impacts up to 12 mph which roughly equates to going over the bars whilst riding slowly NOT being hit by a car, flying into a tree or rock off road etc.
So all instances of being hit by a car, flying into a tree or rock off road etc are at 12mph+
😆
If you value life and you have a family then its a no brainer for me to wear a helmet to reduce or avoid a serious head injury. If you feel your riding skills and ability do not warrant wearing then thats your personal choice, however even if you have been lucky for many years and come off or been knocked off without injury whilst [u]not[/u] wearing a helmet you then start to become complacent until the worst happens, I have a short ride to my local leisure centre and thought I would be okay not wearing a helmet until I nearly got knocked off by numpty drivers, suffice to say I wear my lid now.
i don't know much, but i do know that the dude on the far left, backrow of this pic:
[img] 
[/img]
is probably the most experienced trauma paramedic in the uk and is the lead paramedic for the London HEMS team and has been for many years
in his view EVERY cyclist must wear a helmet
FACTOID
i'm outta here~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>
The reason why most MTBrs including TJ should wear helmets is because they HAVE NO STYLE ARE BALD OR HAVE NAFF haircuts
So what bit doesn't make physiological sense? Slowing the deceleration rate of the brain inside the head is a good thing... As in you make it go from whatever speed it was doing to rest in as long a time as possible, thereby cutting down the damage that the inside of the skull does to the brain.
Kit: I'm glad that you were not seriously injured helmet or not.
IMHO and its just that MHO.....
I would rather wear my helmet on even the "lowest risk rides" as:
a) something completely unexpected may happen
b) my maths is too poor to continually work out probabilities for every eventual riding environment
c) I ride for fun, I don't want to risk loosing that fun for even the shortest period of time and if a helmet MAY preserve this fun then thats the route I will always look to take
[center][b]Remember kids, don't lean safety by accident.[/b] :lol:[/center]
On a sidenote TJ would you use similar probability theory, or suggest it be used, in the use of a condom? Low risk sex vs high risk sex.
BTW this isn't meant to antagonize or lower the tone just interested* 😀
*please keep experiences to an overview 😆
letmetalktomark... yeah, not sure your condom argument is a good one there... as in low risk would be having sex with a long term partner whereas high risk would be having sex with a stranger, or during that time of the month?
I think I may be able to guess what a lot of peoples answers would be there!
Hmmm, in fact it shows exactly what TJ is talking about, making a decision based on the percieved risk of the activity... who'd have thunk it!
More than 100 posts about a helmet saved my life post... Never! 😉
Anyway, I've not read it because undoubtedly it's the same old guff about how they don't do anything for you being spouted out by the same usual suspects, same as it was on my Helmet thread the other week...
So...
[b]PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE Stop the thread someone now![/b]
We've heard it all before!!! 🙄
Stupid for following the scientific evidence? The science is not good but it is clear that if you are uninjured after an accident wearing a helmet then you would not have been killed with one. You might have been injured.
Stupid for believing that a load of guff from a website with an obvious agenda is science. Besides, if you refer to the first line of tosh on their website, any fool will realise that you can't prove a negative. It is clearly possible to prove that someone has died due to head injuries, it is equally possible to prove whether they were wearing a helmet or not. What isn't possible is to account for all those people who do not get onto any statistical data simply becuase they haven't reported that nothing happened when they bashed their head.
In the meantime I'll go with my personal experience which is :-
3 smashed helmets in my garage, no head injuries apart from self inflicted (mainly an assault on brain cells through alcohol and drugs)
3 people known personally to me dead as a result of head injuries, none of them wearing a helmet
Nil people known to me seriously hurt or killed due to a head or neck injury whilst wearing a helmet
QED in my world.
Is it stopped? Oh no.. still going...
In my experience.... my chain slipping and me piling into the ground without a helmet hurt an awful lot (I was pootling to work in cycle lane in Cambridge.. stoopid really).
however, sliding at 20mph across a pavement into a bin head-first, with a lid on, hurt a lot less..
ergo, scientificness says helmets = good idea
While we're bringing in personal experience and spurious research...
A friend of a friend** studied coroners reports on people killed by head injuries in bike accidents over [i]x[/i] years in [i]y[/i] town/city. In every single case, the other injuries sustained would also have killed them.
* a doctor
** retired orthopaedic consultant with years of A&E experience, former doctor to British Cycling and the Milk Race, long time cyclist
IIRC, x = 1 year and y = Manchester, but this may be wrong.
i suffered a blood clot on the brain and quite a long recovery having fallen off without a helmet. I survived having being given 33% chance of doing so and a much higher chance of severe difficulties afterwards (much like Micheal Watson the boxer). I sustained no other life threatening injuries.
With a helmet the worst I have done is shaken myself up a bit and bled from my knees and elbows.
Why would anyone ride a mountain bike without a helmet on?
Your second post does make sense - your first does not.Goan - MemberSo what bit doesn't make physiological sense?
Goan - MemberTJ - that is about the biggest crock of shit i've ever heard.
The helmet has more functions that absorbing impact. It also reduces the deceleration of the brain inside the skull by moving when you have an impact,
The helmet moving in what way where? Utter nonsense.
Teh helmet reduces the linear acceleration of your head It works best when in continuous contact with your head and does not move relative to your head.
thereby reducing the extent of internal injury to blood vessels etc. I'm pretty sure I dont really need to tell you about the benefits of that....
total confusion. The tearing of blood vessels happens with a rotational acceleration not a liner one - Tearing of the blood vessels is precisely the sort of injury that is caused by rotational forces that can be exacerbated by a helmet.
Focal head injury from liner impacts or diffuse axon injury from rotational forces from oblique impacts..
Berm Bandit
Yes the cycle helmets org site is obviously biased - however it does have references to real peer reviewed research and meta studies. Follow the links to the science
to all the people with me to tales your all wrong as its not science 🙄
[i]Why would anyone ride a mountain bike without a helmet on?[/i]
What's the most commom cause of head injury?
Motor Vehicle Accident.
Why would anyone drive without a helmet on?
Half of all Traumatic Brain Injuries involve alcohol.
Why would anyone drink without a helmet on?
Anecdote is not the same as data...
[url] http://cyclehelmets.org/papers/c2022.pdf [/url]
Read this. Properly read it, and try to understand what the figures show.
This is the perfect scenario; before and after helmet compulsion laws...
when will everyone realise TJ will never let it go?, i'm off to other threads, enjoy your bantering
when will everyone realise TJ will never let it go?
he'll be the last standing for sure
However - I have noticed a softening of his position over the last year or so
Mate -did she run you over because you're a ginger. If you can prove this you'll be sorted for a few quid for sure! xx
TJ is an self-confessed anarchist so why even argue, he'll disagree out of principle.
If nobody wore helmets I'm sure he WOULD wear one himself. 😀
[b]TJ, do you like CountryLife butter, and if so what are your reasons?[/b]
Does TJ have a brain injury for not wearing a helmet! :lol:Or is perhaps his brain rattles around in his skull so It doesnt reduces the deceleration of the brain inside the skull by moving when you have an impact. 😆
I've read a couple of these helmet threads, and there seems to be more rational thought behind TJ's responses than a lot of his detractors'.
Risks of head injury related to activity are on a big smooth curve from staying in bed at one end to jumping out of a 5 storey building headfirst at the other.
It's up to each individual to decide at what point they start protecting their head. For people to say that doing any activity involving balancing on 2 wheels crosses some sort of Rubicon past which only the stupid don't wear helmets is ridiculous, as there are plenty of activities on the curve which are far more dangerous, which the same people don't wear hemets for.
All the science guff is by the by.
nedrapier +1
nedrapier Thank you
I'm stupid but still wear a helmet so there!
hey Kit glad to hear that your OK....
I had a similar experience 15 years ago, a car hit me from behind on the Dumfries bypass, through me up in the air and on to the bonet... still on my bike, I can remember it as if it was yesturday... I can remember thinking I was going to meet my maker that day... back then I never used to where a helmet Cu's nobody did then.. miraculously all I did was bang my leg a bit.. totalled my bike though, then 2 months later I got knocked of my bike again.. at that point I gave up commuting on a bike and started to drive..
hope your injury's heal soon
TJ - go and get your helmet, stick it on your head, fasten it and give the helmet a wiggle. Does it move? Of course it does. So what do you think it'll do in a high speed impact?
As for the blood vessels only being damaged by rotational forces - can you explain that one to me please.
hang on TJ you promised never to post about helmets again.
can everyone stop provoking him please - he's not goign to change his mind and he problably won't change yours either.
Why would anyone ride a mountain bike without a helmet on?What's the most commom cause of head injury?
Motor Vehicle Accident.
Why would anyone drive without a helmet on?
Half of all Traumatic Brain Injuries involve alcohol.
Why would anyone drink without a helmet on?
Anecdote is not the same as data...
The funniest thing yet by far. Professional drivers race and rally do wear helmets for that purpose. Also as far as stats go, a motor vehicle accident is easy enough to record data wise where as i'm not exactly gonna phone up the statistics nerds and mention that today at Glentress i had 4 accidents because cycle wise only hospital visits count as accidents rather than the millions of other non hospital accidents that actually do happen. This is where scientific research actually is............ erm...................... bollocks!!
Goan - go and look at the research.
Google diffuse axon injury and focal brain injury. Tearing of blood vessels is part of a diffuse axon injury which happens when the brain roates in the skull. Straight on impacts do not cause this type of injury. Basic stuff.
Look at the TRL stuff on how helmets work. The less they move on your head the better they work. If your helmet wobbles out on your head the less well it works - this is one of the key findings fromt eh TRL research
I am bored of this now and everyone is bored of me.
Aww, Get back late from work and find I've missed a helmets rammy.
Re. the medics comments; I remember sitting in Edinburgh Royal about ten years ago with a succession of different doctors trouping round, looking at the bloodied cycling gear, and repeating, mantra-like that "my helmet had DEFINATELY saved my life". Of course, any piece of polystyrene I owned was actually sitting on a shelf at hame 20 miles away at the time.
Medic's say that phrase the same way that hairdressers say "goin' on holiday? blah blah"- its a way of keeping the punters happy and maybe giving them some sense of control over their accident, Helpful bullsh*t in other words.
I'm slightly more bolshilly anti helmet than TJ, but would support his comments as a sensible middle ground.
I'd certainly not be wearing one for commuting in Embra' though.
By the way, Im very glad that Kit is OK, but an experienced STWer should know waayy better than to post a thread title like that 🙂
tj i respect your right not to wear a helmet but and its a bloody big but my mother was a doctor until she retired a couple of years ago she could bore you to death with the physics of what goes on inside your head during an impact even at very low speed basics being that your brain does not stop moving after you have and can suffer some serious trauma from hitting the inside of your skull and most but not all of this trauma can KILL YOU so you can try to blind me with so called facts but this women know more about this than you have ****ING FORGOT so you carry on taking that chance but don't tell me what you think is fact cause it ain't
And does your mum think that bike helmets work to prevent serious head injury?
fatsimon mk2, can you tell me what peer reviewed papers on head injuries and cycle helmets your mother was the author of?
You start by 'respecting rights and finish with insults, Is this helpful?
I'll ask her later when i speak to her but had lots of conversation about this subject years ago when when i was a scooterboy and like i said she could bore for England on this subject and as a side note around the time i was a scooterboy i dated a nurse who worked in a&e in London and heard plenty of gory tales about bike messangers that suffered offs
*Muffled yelping*
I promised to argue this no more.
your right West kipper not helpful just a subject that gets my goat a little bit and no no published paper just lots of first hand and bloodied hands on experience of head vs concreate/tarmac/kerb etc
