should i cancel the delivery of a new Canyon Torque FRX? i was quite excited when i ordered it, but after yesterday i'm having doubts as to whether or not i need it.
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i was out yesterday with a friend and we rode up to about 1400m. the ride up was a (mostly) gentle climb with a 300m carry at the end.
the path down was tight, tricky and technical. so technical that i was thinking "shit... if this goes wrong i'm fubard". there were bits that i had to carry down, but these sections were unrideable save for perhaps a few top trials riders. i don't think it would have mattered had i have been on a big 200mm DH rig.
but over the rideable technical sections i was faster than my mate. over the flowy sections i was faster. the only place where he caught me up were the longer rock gardens where i couldn't let the bike storm over.
now, i am fairly quick on the HT and will ride any trail, man-made or natural. i only suffer when i take it to the bike park, where the tracks are designed to be ridden on big bikes (fat root sections, bigger drops - although i'll ride many drops assuming the landing isn't too flat/drop too high, i.e. i'll ride it if i don't have to rely on masses of rear suspension). last time in at Leogang i held my own with some fancy fella on his 170mm FS. and i'm not going to be going to the park that often as it's rudely expensive and not as convinient to get to as the normal trails.
when riding with other guides, i know of only two that i work with that are "good". the majority have their FS bikes, but i leave them at the top of the hill.
i feel that if i take delivery of the new bike i'll probably feel that i need it. the problem is, is that i know i don't currently need it. if i ride it i'm more likely to do myself some serious injury as i'll be pushing myself harder to get more out of the bike.
help.
Demo demo demo demo borrow borrow borrow borrow.
Could the money be better spent elsewhere?
keep the full sus for the big drops, assuming youre not chicken 😛
but i feel the same. hardtails are most awesome everywhere apart from where suspension can pick up the back wheel over multiple hits, then suspension is definitely faster. im in the same sort of boat at the moment. really want a bottlerocket, but cant really justify it, and like you say, you have to be going warp speed to make a full sus as fun as a hardtail.
tough choice. if youve got the money id keep it as it'll be a blast on the right trails.
I'm in the same conundrum but already have the full sus! The FS was great for Whistler but tbh it never gets used to its full potential at Woburn, where I ride most of the time. I've ridden all the same stuff on my hardtail and tbh the ht jumps better and is probably faster. FS are nice for that feeling of knowing you can probably get away with some dodgy landings though and I feel way more confident on the hardtail after riding the fs.. so dunno!
No, but maybe something a little shorter travel? That looks a beast to pedal 1400m up a hill!
Like he ^ said, looks like you bought the wrong bike. I very much doubt you will need 180mm of travel for anything in the UK, or enjoy riding a 37 lbs bike up hill.
Like he ^ said, looks like you bought the wrong bike. I very much doubt you will need 180mm of travel for anything in the UK, or enjoy riding a 37 lbs bike up hill.
He lives in the Alps
Still, pedaling that thing up hill anywhere will be nasty.
I think we often confuse the term "need" with "want".
You don't need any of your bikes, but do you want them?
Toy's +1
I don't need any of my fs bikes (3 of them) but I love them and wouldn't be without them.
Just because you CAN ride a hardtail down something fast does not mean it won't be EVEN MORE FUN when tackled on a different bike.
Not just about speed IMHO... riding a big bike opens up a whole different world of line choices.
I swing both ways by the way 8)
no, i need at least one bike......
yeah, i live on the edge of the alps.... if my laptop had a SD card reader i'd upload so pics from yesterday.
i think the FS is going to get me into more trouble than it'll get me out of.
i'm more in the camp of "skills, not suspension". i'd rather rely on my skills than the bike's suspension, i.e. what i can and not what technology can... saying that i do have 160mm upfront 😕
there is, in my mind, little point in buying a 140mm trail bike. it's not going to be more fun than my DB Alpine. i can and do ride everything that all the 140mm trail bikes i see ride.
i'll ride a lot of what the boys on their big bigs ride in the park.
like i said, it's only those sections that are too brutal for anything other than 160+mm FS bikes that i hold back on.
it's not a question of saving 2500€. it's a question of how much fun i'll have on it and more importantly is it going to make me a better rider: i fear it will not. most FS riders i see are lazy on the bike.
and fun for me is the challenge of dropping down a steep, switchedback incline, having to think about line choice.
my DB Alpine in its local environment.....
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edit: the Canyon can be ridden uphill. my mate, with whom i rode yesterday, has one. it comes in 1kg heavier than the Alpine.
maybe i should spend some of the money saved on a new set of lighter wheels when this set give up the ghost....
there is, in my mind, little point in buying a 140mm trail bike. [b]it's not going to be more fun than my DB Alpine[/b]. i can and do ride everything that all the 140mm trail bikes i see ride.
Have you tried one?
If I lived where you do I would probably be looking at an Alpine 160 or something similar, maybe even a Five. Not to heavy (well not 37 lbs anyway) and still fun.
Just because you CAN ride a hardtail down something fast does not mean it won't be EVEN MORE FUN when tackled on a different bike.
^^ this. And
i feel that if i take delivery of the new bike i'll probably feel that i need it. the problem is, is that i know i don't currently need it. if i ride it i'm more likely to do myself some serious injury as i'll be pushing myself harder to get more out of the bike.
You'll ride it , love it, it'll be your [i][b]favourite[/b][/i] bike. Then for some reason you'll take the hardtail out again and suddenly remember why you loved that so much... for the next four weeks the hardtail will be your [b][i]favourite[/i][/b] bike all over again...
Two bikes = twice the fun (of two different flavours!)
Have you tried one?
yes, my amtes, albeit with a Fox DHX(?) Air shock...
but the Canyon will be used almost exclusively in the park (would sell the upy-downy post and replace with a normal post). what is the point in having a bike that gets used 5-6 times a year? i could ride it on the same trails i do now, the same trails my friends ride their big bikes, but why would i when i can rule the trails on the Alpine?
Why are you trying to convince us? I think you know what you should do.
Alpin what hardtail are you riding ?
Having recently got a HT (thats not too dissimilar to yours) to complement my 160mm FS. I would get the FS it is so nice being able to choose the best bike for the riding conditions.
small mkI Dialled Bikes Alpine. U-turn Lyrik. 700mm bars.
pic is up there ^^
@peasant - he told us he had a Dialed Bikes Alpine
@alpin - given you live in the Alps it seems rude not to have some kind of long travel FS ! I suppose your alternative would be to buy a used bike and see if you really used it, if you have the money and don't mind spending it then go new and just enjoy it.
As a die hard hardtail fan (untill last year) I'd disagree, minceing on a FS bike might be easier (I'd argue it's actualy harder as there's variation in the geometry at low speeds). But the ability to just ride into rough sections without thinking about it is addictive!
Alpin, I'm confused as to your motivation to start this thread. Given your dissembling of FS above, what on earth possesed you to order the canyon in the first place?
I'm suspicious that this not just another of your willy waving threads of yore, displaying that you have "realised" that you are just too radcore for an FS and the rest of us should decamp to your location and watch/sniff your vapour trail/lick your tender areas?
Just bought myself a carbon HT still have my FS though. find the new bike a blast to ride,super fast and great handling.. but it might just be the novelty of a new bike! i like having both 🙂
Just buy a Bottlerocket you'll have lots of fun, I do. There are some good s/h deals around.
ha... nice one toys.... more a "do i need another bike in the basement that probably won't be ridden all that often when the bike i have does 95% of what i want to ride?" thread.
i think my motivation for ordering it was watching too many vidoes over winter and reminiscing about the handful of lift assisted days last summer.
it all seemed like a good idea up until yesterday afternoon and the bike will be here by friday. i can still send it back within 30 days of its arrival.
Just checking...
I have a 160mm and a 210 mm bike, no skills, and a broad grin. The 160mm bike replaced my hardtail as my wrists and angles were taking a hammering attempting to do the kind of riding the 160mm bike adores. I use the 210 mm bike at least once a month on local uplift days and 2-3 europe trips a year. Worth every penny to satisfy my [b]wants[/b].
(as I said before your use of the word need is misplaced, you don't need it in your basement, but if you want it then keep it)
alright...
do i want a 180mm FS?
do i want a 180mm FS?
You are asking other people to know your own mind? Only you can answer this question my friend, if you don't recognise your own desire then you are probably in deep shit.
Just because you CAN ride a hardtail down something fast does not mean it won't be EVEN MORE FUN when tackled on a different bike.
Depends what you find the fun in.
On the downs (why's it always the downs?), what EXTRA fun can be had on a full sus?
It's fun gritting your teeth, holding on for dear life, on the edge of control, you can get that sensation on a hardtail on less gnar terrain. To get that sensation on a 180mm+ bike, I myself have to be riding some pretty serious terrain.
I say they're fun in different ways. I don't say a full sus is fun because it allows you to monster truck over stuff (that gets old pretty quick), and cover rough stuff quicker, i get the feeling that's why lots of people find it more "fun", the sense of being "good" and achievement.
Hardtails are fun, full sus are fun, fun in different ways. Now i've got a hardtail again to go with my full sus, i wouldn't be without it. The hardtail has made a lot of the local riding fun again.
I'm in the camp of if you're doing things right, you don't need a full sus, though it's still fun to ride a full sus.
OP - Get the big bike, thrash it on the bike parks, just use them for different things.
Wait? Are we still discussing bikes, or whether Alpin should join the Jedi?Only you can answer this question my friend, if you don't recognise your own desire then you are probably in deep shit.
What! You are saying owning/riding isn't a deep philosophical experience?
What! You are saying owning/riding isn't a deep philosophical experience?
I was mysteriously drawn to this thread, I now know why... Carry on
Hold on. You live [u]there[/u] and you're debating over whether to have a FS?
I love HT/rigid as much as anyone and I've taken a HT on a 2 week alpine trip before. Great fun. But if I lived there? FK, I'd have a proper FS bike as well as a tough 120mm HT, and my bikepacker, my road bike etc.
As much as I love hardtails, when it gets techy long forks can get on my wick anyway. >140mm forks are ok, after that I'd rather have the balance of a FS or a lighter HT.
The fact that we've got this far down the thread and no one has taken you to task for ordering an ugly (ish) bike shows a dereliction of duty on behalf of the STW collective.
Other than that it's all been said.
You ordered it cause you wanted it.
Now you're wondering if you need it which comes back to
You are asking other people to know your own mind? Only you can answer this question my friend,
Imagine you didn't have the choice, would you still be happy on your Alpine ... yeah probably.
I dont think you need this bike.. ive been on one of your guided tours in gran canaria and you were way faster than anyone else and they were on full susser's! 😉
Like he ^ said, looks like you bought the wrong bike. I very much doubt you will need 180mm of travel for anything in the UK, or enjoy riding a 37 lbs bike up hill.
you can't get to 1400m anywhere in the UK....
If you're going to buy a bike you won't ride at least buy a good looking one
YOUR HARDTAIL LOOKS THE DOGS,
you can't get to 1400m anywhere in the UK....
No shit Sherlock.
Loved my full suss till it broke. So while new full suss is being prepared, I'm back to my old Cube aim frame with bits from here and there thrown on. I love it!!! - its fast,direct and its short arse dimensions mean that on Sunday past in the Cairngorms the run down Meall a Bhuachaille was a total hoot.However on a long run, I'll take full suss any day. Horses for courses.
rigid.
unicycle
Hardtail may be all well and good now - but I'm sure you'll feel the benefit of the Canyon once the hordes arrive. (although this is the perfect time to show off your rad HT ability)
If you think you're fast now just think how fast the suspension should make you.. it's about grip, traction and being able to negotiate rough turns faster. Not just soaking up rock gardens and drops.
Sure you'll struggle to get it up some of the hills, but that counts as training.
"ordering an ugly (ish) bike"
I quite like it, off to canyon site I go
well, james, if you're after the same bike as mine in a small then the waiting time should be a bit less. i de-ordered the bike this morning
turbo1397 - MemberI dont think you need this bike.. ive been on one of your guided tours in gran canaria and you were way faster than anyone else and they were on full susser's!
were you really on one of my tours in GC? when were you there and on which tour?
hope you enjoyed it which ever it was!
The main reason I ride a FS in the Alps is that I can sit down on the more boring bits and save my legs. Lots of the singetrack runs have long farmer tracks to link back up to the lifts. If I was a really fit bugger, then a HT would be fine.
Having read this thread twice, then Alpin, my feeling is that you probably do not need a FS. If you're having that much fun, and have the legs to stand up when it's rough, why go FS?
Plus riding a HT must impress the people you're guiding!
Hey Jamie, yeh I did 2 tours that you guided out of maspalomas.. My names dave from Glasgow. It was the sketchy singletrack one on the Friday that I remember most. Great day out though! 🙂
hello mate.... you're the one who was boasting that you'd been snowboarding a few days prior to riding in GC. i remember.
fridays were generally the best day of the week out there! i can still "ride" the whole friday downhill in my head.
Yes mate, that was me.. It was a great route! Improved considerably since then! You could certainly throw that alpine about, only reason I think you'd need a full Suss is that it would make things a lot 'comfier' on the way down!