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Isn't the OP getting function and form mixed up? Some people want a bike that looks beautiful and putting together the ultimate bike is just as rewarding to them as actually riding the thing. But it's probably just envy in the end.
No, she wouldn't be taxi driving me around she'd be lazily [s]laying[/s] lying on a bed smiling at me after I'd spent myself in her company not riding a bicycle
FTFY.
Chickens lay eggs. People lie on beds. They also lie about your sexual prowess. 😉
Those bitching about kit not lasting so long now should get on iplayer and watch The men who made us spend. I've only seen the first one but it looked at planned obsolescence and the need for new plastic shit every year.
I was angry watching it and found it thoroughly depressing. Just the sheer waste it generates 🙁
Back to the main topic, I've got a couple of bikes with a combined build cost slightly more that the cost of a brand new base model Dacia Duster.
Mountain biking is my thing. I considered spending less on bikes and buying:
- a trials bike. Great fun but very few places to use it. It would clog up the shed
- a paramotor. These look fantastic but I think it would get boring fairly quickly
- a classic car. Actually I did this in a moment of madness. It's for sale.
- a flashier car than my round the clock 2007 Skoda. It's just for ferrying the family around, I don't see the point.
- a motorbike for the road. I also did this. I'm finding it a bit boring tbh. By the time it becomes really good fun it is also hideously dangerous. It's going soon.
There's a load of other stuff I'd quite like to do, mostly watersports, but I know the gear would get used once in a blue moon. So I'll stick to my MTB's, a bit of carbon and custom steel.
If I was skint though, I know I could have almost as much fun on a decent £1000 hardtail. That's the beauty of bikes, they really are better value nowadays, no doubt about it.
There's a load of other stuff I'd quite like to do, mostly watersports,
That can be cripplingly expensive, especially if you get the taste for it.
Unless you have an extremely understanding partner. Who is just as kinky as you.
Surely it's up to me how I spend my money? Why should anyone else care?
Was having a similar chat with two ex-pat mates the other day about the bikes we ride in hong Kong (ones a teacher from Sheffield, another a Quantity Surveyor from Edinburgh) compared with what we had in the UK or bought over with us, example:
Me: UK Bike - 2007 Gary Fisher Tassajero (Still going) HK Bike - 2014 Pivot Mach 6 with XX1/XTR/Pike Build
Mate 1: UK Bike - 2011 Lapierre Spicy (Alloy) HK Bike - 2014 SC bronson with XX1/XTR/Pike Build
Mate 1: UK Bike - 2010 SC Heckler (Alloy) HK Bike - 2014 SC bronson with XX1/XTR/Fox 34 Build
I am certainly not rich but with no need for a car, a low tax rate both on salary and when buying (bikes are around 30% cheaper here than the UK) and a love of riding then I am going to buy what I can afford, I am never going to get the chance if I return back to the UK.
If you though that the UK bike parks where full of rich ex-golfers with Audis and Santa Cruz's then you should come here, I have never seen such expensive bikes being wheeled around....and I used to ride in Surrey!
Nobody on here should feel the need to have to justify what they buy !
If you earn £10K a year and drop a grand on a bike you're doing well.
Conversely if you are earning £100K a year and drop £10K on a bike in my opinion you are also doing well.
It's all relative, if I earned £10K I would aspire to owning something better, whether of not it made me a better rider is comparable but buying a cheap bike and being happy on it is just as fulfilling as buying an expensive one and being happy on it ?
If I earnt £100K i wouldn't be buying a magazine about biking expecting to find the contents thrifty and budget orientated, who's ever bought a car Magazine full of shit cars and then rushed out to buy it again a month later !
I can't remember who posted that buying a £7K bike wasn't enjoyable !
Are you sure about that, are you speaking from experience ?
Well said disco duck
It's the old self righteous post here 'I only spent X on my bike so I'm morally superior'. They ofc forget the context. Thier £1000 or £3000 bike is just as unattainable for someone on the minimum wage. I retired and treated myself to a new bike and have enjoyed reading articles on all bikes regardless of cost.
Mountain Biking has always been expensive when compared to the relatively low cost of rose-tinted specs (the goverment gives a set to you for free once you hit 50, I think.)
Back to the OP's original point about the new Cove frame being £1700. Yeah, you're right, that is a lot of money. However, previous versions went for £2000 and had been doing so for years. So, for it to have come down in price makes it pretty good value IMO.
I think some of this is Rose Tinted Specs forgetting that the cost of bikes in the 80's/90's was massive relative to income, then there's what happened to £ in terms of currency after 2007/8 - prior to then the (artificially!) strong pound meant that we were getting ludicrously cheap imports, bikes/bike parts included and then prices suddenly increased over just a year or two and perhaps gave many the impression of a big jump in 'the norm' where high end bikes were a consideration.
MTBing hijacked by the big money brigade ?
It may not be relevant to many of STWers but I meet up with a group of guys (and an increasing number of gals) some sundays here in the sunny Sierra de Madrid and although not many people have 5k bikes the collective spend on kit is eye wateringly high.
The group however is definitely not what I would call the Big Money Brigade. The organiser of the group turns up in a 2005 Citroen Saxo and is an unemployed (unfortunately all to common here in Spain) lift technician. Carlos is a fireman and a couple of guys work in bike shops.
The sport is expensive. It can be more or less expensive depending on whether you have to have the latest and the greatest or can accept that your bike will not get the most comments as you are preparing to set off.
We ride 100% natural trails as trailcenters haven't taken off here but I did ride Davagh forest in Norhtern Ireland and while immensely fun it was not nearly as challenging as stuff I've ridden here. Perhaps UK trail centers have made the sport more accesible to people and less has attracted the Johnny Stockbrokers along with Joey plumber and Pauly chartered accountant too?
Hang around for a year, and those high end bikes get cheaper as everything changes colour for the next year. Not everyone pays full whack for stuff 😀
My first serious bike felt like cost me a lot more than the 400 quid I paid for it. I worked 2 years on my paper round and saved up for it. On the face of it, later purchases did cost a lot more but felt less significant as my salary was a lot higher.
I'd also argue that bikes cost a lot more 20 years ago. That 400 quid GT Karakoram was a rigid steel frame with canti's and a penchant for wheels buckling. Nowadays a 400 quid bike will weigh less, function better and probably put up with a lot more (ab)use
Cycling is expensive, but the again it always has been.
The demographic of those who do it has changed as it has become cooler and become more of a lifestyle sport. At least in my office there seems to be a few older guys getting into it and having a bit more disposable chas means their first bikes are often quite tasty. If you can afford it, why not?
Some stuff seems to be getting really expensive - forks for example are crazy money but most people seem to have nice forks to it looks as though the market can stand the costs. They are better than they use to be - the original Z1 was a proper game changer and was expensive then but they were still common. A grand plus does seem a lot. Tyres are crazy money too.
However, how many people actually pay full price for stuff? I don't think that I've bought a chain, cassette, mech or shifter at RRP for years. SRAM stuff seems to get discounted big time across their range.
Also, you can keep costs down by changing your expectations - I've alays been an XT level guy, but the current Deore stuff is genuinely very, very good.
With that all being said, the top end stuff does seem to be heading north...i.e. the £10k builds from SC. I've been riding a long time and I do remember the high ends bikes but you didn't see them out about, but these days you do see some serious bikes so there is obviously a market for it.
It's always interesting why sc gets held up as the expensive example. The top end s works enduro costs the same as the top end Bronson and last time I looked was lower spec. If you tick every option things get expensive, if you give people choice it can be more expensive but some awesome bikes are out there and there are loads more decent bikes at lower prices. However if you want to complain about how expensive stuff is and how it was better back in the day then carry on grandad
Just as an aside comparing expensive bikes to cheaper bikes. Theres a downhill segment I do regularly (once A week), charity lane in macc forest, been doing it for years, and strava'ing it since strava turned up. My times down it have plateaud , and are usually within a couple of seconds of my personal best.
I normally ride it on my 'big money' bike, an ibis mojo hd, with carbon wheels, cane creek shock, marz 55 rc 3 forks, etc etc. Last night the mojo was broken, so I took my old 2005 enduro, with old original fox36 forks, dhxair 5 shock, heavy wheels, poor brakes etc etc, and absolutely smashed my previous personal best.
Still trying to work out what it is about the enduro that makes it faster downhill, its heavier, the equipment on it is not as good, the angles are steeper, the bars narrower , it has less travel, etc etc, but its definitely faster down that particular trail.
Anyway, no particular point to my post, thought it may interest the stw massive.
Surely it's up to me how I spend my money? Why should anyone else care?
Don't believe that's really the point of the thread, but if it's any consolation I don't give a monkeys how you spend your money.
It's always interesting why sc gets held up as the expensive example.
Is it because they're massively overpriced? 😈
It's always interesting why sc gets held up as the expensive example.Is it because they're massively overpriced?
And their insidious marketing strategy of throwing an unending stream of their massively overpriced bikes at UK journos, so the mags get filled with an unrepresentative proportion of their bikes.
Having such a high profile cuts both ways of course.
julians - MemberStill trying to work out what it is about the enduro...
dunno, can't help you work it out, but those old enduros certainly are the tits.
As someone said up there, Santa Cruz have a huge presence in the mags and on the Internet. New SC bike? "Let's make a video". New wheel size? "Let's jump right on board and launch a whole new range for it."
They are much more heavily marketed than any other premium brand I can think of and also have a hugely successful DH team. I suspect shops also see SC as the "safe" premium brand and find it easier to sell a £6000 SC bike than a £6000 Spesh or Trek.
Basically, SC have done a superb job with their sales and marketing in recent years and have really capitalised on carbon and big wheels.
[edit] it may backfire on SC as they seem to be making a move to "model year" graphics on their bikes. One of the appeals of a boutique bike and a custom build is you''re not buying something that will look out of date in 12 months.
Some stuff seems to be getting really expensive - forks for example are crazy money but most people seem to have nice forks to it looks as though the market can stand the costs. They are better than they use to be - the original Z1 was a proper game changer and was expensive then but they were still common. A grand plus does seem a lot. Tyres are crazy money too.
On a mountain bike that you're riding hard downhill, there is nowhere else I'd rather spend money than forks and tyres! A bling transmission is just bling but better suspension and tyres makes a real difference.
Is it just us?
In the US; $5899 (~£3450) will get you a carbon SC Nomad with pikes, monarch plus, stealth reverb and X1 kit.
Don't forget the £700 of VAT wrecker and the couple of hundred in import duty to get it into the UK. HMRC is making a nice little bit there 😉
Of course, but SC UK don't pay US retail prices for the frames.
They have a lower spec full build Carbon Bronson for $3599!! It's the "lesser" carbon but still!
No but the vat is payable on the RRP. They also pay the people who assemble the bikes a better wage in the UK compared to the job I saw advertised for their factory. It costs money to ship stuff to the UK, it costs money to distribute kit. I'd love to see the STW import & distribution collective do much better 🙂
In the end I'd rather a bronson or nomad than this bland looking $10k bike
http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bikes/mountain/enduro/sworks-enduro
Its as expensive or as cheap as you want to make it.
I've got a pretty high end Turner 5 Spot
I think it cost me £300 swap over price from the Blur LT it replaced.
The last completed bike I bought in 2003 was £600.
Sure I've spent a few quid on "upgrades" but I don't think I've ever forked out more than a few hundred pounds in one go and I've always had what most people would consider top end bikes.
Buy S/h, buy parts online, save thousands and still have nice bikes
No but the vat is payable on the RRP. They also pay the people who assemble the bikes a better wage in the UK compared to the job I saw advertised for their factory. It costs money to ship stuff to the UK, it costs money to distribute kit. I'd love to see the STW import & distribution collective do much better
three words; Direct Sales Model.
It is the way they should all go.
three words; Direct Sales Model.
Maybe. But where would you test them? Or get advice? Or get it customised? Or set-up properly? And what happens if there's a recall or fault? Not everyone can true a wheel or set-up a rear mech, let alone strip a fork.
While globalisation has made buying from overseas massively easier, it's still no match for face-to-face dealings. And mailing a bike back to the 'states because it's cracked sounds like a major ballache to me.
On a mountain bike that you're riding hard downhill, there is nowhere else I'd rather spend money than forks and tyres! A bling transmission is just bling but better suspension and tyres makes a real difference.
I don't deny that they make a huge difference, but fifty plus sheets for a tyre is a lot of money. Just look how expensive the current top flight Maxxis tyres are...they've gone up loads. A grand for a pair of forks is a lot of money especially when good frames can be had for £1,500. Even the 'budget' forks seem a lot to me.
Some of the cost of forks is driven by must have tech like travel adjust. The original Pike for example had a lot of adjustments and as cheap too. What's changed?
Some of the cost of forks is driven by must have tech like travel adjust. The original Pike for example had a lot of adjustments and as cheap too. What's changed?
The damping was a bit crap by modern standards and they were heavy, they'll feel agricultural compared to modern pikes
You can get Pikes for £600 - I think that's practically a bargain! They're in another world to my Fox 32s which were £300 secondhand (but unused). My £50 rrp tyres usually cost me £35 and they last for ages. Then again I put nice tyres on my old car too!
8 or 9 years ago i bought 130mm, qr revelations for ~ 220 quid.
last year i bought 150mm, 15mm maxle sektors for 230 quid. inflation my arse.
prices go up, prices go down. bought well, you won't be far out of pocket.
You can get Pikes for £600 - I think that's practically a bargain! They're in another world to my Fox 32s which were £300 secondhand (but unused). My £50 rrp tyres usually cost me £35 and they last for ages. Then again I put nice tyres on my old car too!True, which puts them back down to what top end Marzocchi's were a few years ago....which brings me back yo my earlier post; does anyone pay full price? Does that mean the forks are really with £600 (I.e. What they sell at rather than the RRP)?
I always put good tyres on my car too, but my 255 35 18's look good value compared to a Maxxis DH tyre and will last loads longer.
A 1998 SID Ti fork was £600, for 63mm of travel and no fancy damping. Expensive forks are nothing new!
Back in 1997 i bought a alloy cannondale with stxrc kit and pace 36 pro2 evo 90mm forks for abouth 1400 in total. My current bike is a alloy cannondale with a 90mm lefty and xt bits bought for 1600.
in 1993 i attempted to save up for a Pace fork.
they were £350, and, let's be honest, they were crap.
(that's £650 if we're inflation-correcting)
my current Xc32's cost me £130, and they're great.
it's one thing trying to explain how a £600 pike is really a bargain, but let's not over-look the stuff that's a small fraction of the price!
Serious questions - are you riding more? Or are you riding more in more challenging terrain? One thing I have noticed is that people are riding stuff now on 'regular' bikes that 10 years ago would have been the sole realm of a 'downhill' bike. We're also riding faster, because equipment is more forgiving and we can stop faster. To counter your above point, I'd suggest that all this wears kit out faster.
Riding the same terrain, but a blit slower these days, although I'm on 'better' bikes. And I know plenty of people who are riding the same challenging terrain on fs bikes, as they used to on fully rigid bikes with 1.75" tyes etc. Fster? Maybe, but not by that much. Anyway; people are missing the pint. I have no issue with development of technology, just the actual quality of components. With a smaller market, stuff was made from better materials, and needed to last. R+D wasn't beong driven by a marketing machine intent on making money, it was being done by people who simply wanted better kit. Whislt stuff like XT may be lighter and more 'advanced', it isn't as well made. I've probabbly taken more bikes aprt than most peope on here, and the older stuff holds up better than the more recent kit. And for those of us that want simplicity nad reliability, current kit isn't as good as the older stuff. But then, if you change your components faster than you change your pants, because themarketing tels you you have to have the latest thing,then you don't need longevity in stuff.
The original Pikes? Fox of that era blew them into the weeds on damping!
But I think Pike won because they looked good, were sturdy and simple.
I always put good tyres on my car too, but my 255 35 18's look good value compared to a Maxxis DH tyre and will last loads longer.
If I drove my car like I ride my bike then I doubt my tyres would last half as many hours as my bike tyres do!
I'm surprised by the amount of people defending the price of MTB gear. I find it extremely high. If you look at the actual cost to make some of the parts, the mark up is incredible. I've had a few hobbies, and this one is the most extreme for over pricing. It's downright off putting to anyone trying to get into it if they have a look at some of the costs of things.
You have to laugh really at adverts for a MTB priced at £7999. What niche of a niche is that even targeted at?
Other things that are ridiculous:
MTB clothing. i.e. shorts for over £100
Dropper posts for £300+
Tiny bits of metal like seat post clamps for £50+
MTB Tyres generally
etc
I actually will one day soon buy a dropper post. It's going to hurt me inside but I probably will.
On Newsnight last night they had a cycling-themed studio discussion with some predictably lame questions from the presenter.
Trying to paint cycling as a middle class hobby, the presenter scoffed that MAMILs were spending "as much as a thousand pounds" on a bike.
If only she knew.
coursemyhorse, that's like saying "This Hennessey Venom costs a million quid, cars are far too expensive".
You have to laugh really at adverts for a MTB priced at £7999. What niche of a niche is that even targeted at?
Other things that are ridiculous:
MTB clothing. i.e. shorts for over £100
Dropper posts for £300+
Tiny bits of metal like seat post clamps for £50+
MTB Tyres generally
etc
I actually will one day soon buy a dropper post. It's going to hurt me inside but I probably will.
Yeah, I laugh at ads for £7999 bikes. Why spend so little? 8)
£50 for a seat clamp? Link? The ones on my 2 (rrp) £8k+ Santa Cruzes weren't anything close to that...
Anyway, must dash, off to the lbs to look at a £16,000 Specialized/McLaren. TTFN.
Seems this has hit a nerve as there are some very defensive answers here 😆
I happen to agree with the OP and think there is far too much fashion in cycling (and I don't mean clothing), like people who remove a perfectly good triple to go 1 x 10, buy silly wide bars with tiny stems etc. The theory is all fine and well but for most of us "normal UK cyclists" it will make bugger all difference other than to your wallet.
The biggest improvement most of us can make is to shed a few kg's of fat and ride our bikes more to pick up a bit more fitness and skill.
Wide bars do make a massive difference 😕 But also, seems to miss the point of the thread a little as they're no more expensive than "normal" bars.