[Closed] MTBing hijacked by the big money brigade ?

My old 04 Spesh Enduro cost £1400 - All low end kit- Marzzochi forks,deore brakes/shifters,Spesh's own heavy as hell finishing kit & crap wheels.The only decent component on it was an XT rear mech.That amount buys a decent bike these days.
1400 holes went a lot further 10 years ago than what it does today too ! !

The reason I love companies like On-One, Ribble, Canyon etc is because they offer kit that does the job for a more sensible amount of money.
I don't want or need to be ushered into a Specialized Body Geometry store, given cups of coffee and patronised into parting with my money.
It's riding a bike FFS.

AS somebody else alluded to in the 'my bike is boring' thread, the bike isn't boring... its merely a tool that allows you to enjoy the pastime of cycling.... a good trail is a good trail whatever you ride.... conversely a 6k Santa Cruz won't make a trip to the shops exciting.

I have lots of hobbies so it makes sense for me to spend as little on each as possible....I don't get why people fret about the cost of the new 11 speed gear when 9-10 speed Deore level stuff will get you out on the trails for peanuts.

Buy clothing on line or at Sports Direct, it's only going to get wet, muddy, torn etc so why spend £100 on shorts that don't actually being anything to the ride?!

TL:DR: Deviant is a Yorkshireman.*

*Or an honorary one.

😛

deviant - Member
The reason I love companies like On-One, Ribble, Canyon etc is because they offer kit that does the job for a more sensible amount of money.
I don't want or need to be ushered into a Specialized Body Geometry store, given cups of coffee and patronised into parting with my money.
It's riding a bike FFS.

AS somebody else alluded to in the 'my bike is boring' thread, the bike isn't boring... its merely a tool that allows you to enjoy the pastime of cycling.... a good trail is a good trail whatever you ride.... conversely a 6k Santa Cruz won't make a trip to the shops exciting.

I have lots of hobbies so it makes sense for me to spend as little on each as possible....I don't get why people fret about the cost of the new 11 speed gear when 9-10 speed Deore level stuff will get you out on the trails for peanuts.

Buy clothing on line or at Sports Direct, it's only going to get wet, muddy, torn etc so why spend £100 on shorts that don't actually being anything to the ride?!

It doesn't get much more sensible than that!

Why sports direct, though? Tesco swimming shorts are the best biking shorts I've ever had! They did a pair about four years ago that had decently fastened pockets and 'combat style' leg pockets. Cost me ten quid. I've not quite retired them yet, even though there is an inadvertent 'crotchless' moment on the way soon. But at least three full summers of riding? Why would I spend one hundred sniffs on a pair?

No alu full sus frame (bar having a cane creek) should be over 1k.

Jungle ARE taking the piss. But then because of 0% many people buy and live in tiny rented places.

No alu full sus frame (bar having a cane creek) should be over 1k.

Jungle ARE taking the piss. But then because of 0% many people buy and live in tiny rented places.

I think if you removed 0%/low finance prices would drop.

Just as with everything in life there are ultra expensive options for people that need to spend £$¢€£ to feel good on a car house bag shirt or pushbike. Its their choice and while its never been something I have been able to afford I can get my kicks just fine with what I've got.

25 years ago there were superbikes, they were rigid and had anodised cnc'd purple brakes that didn't work too good. Now you can buy great bikes and kit new that offer a fantastic level of performance. It is hard to buy a descent quality bike that actually crap. £999 can bag you an On One Parkwood that has a great balance of performance technology and vfm.

The rush for new fangled wheel sized bikes is leaving a cheap scrap heap of allegedly obsolete 26 inched bikes that are perfect for anyone disaffected by consumerism.

After all my bikes got nicked I bought a Spesh Pitch for £560 in descent nick and I do wonder how much better a shiny Kona Process or Nukeproof Mega orYT Wicked will be?

A YT Wicked? Yes please when someone sells for the next new thing.

dannyh, i hadn't thought of tesco for cheap riding kit, will check it out next time I need something!

Honourary Yorkshireman, I like that.

My current bike (technically the other half's but I'm having it, she just doesn't know it yet!) is a Ragley Piglet I got for £400, a year old and looks brand new. Has unfashionable 26 inch wheels but it rides great and will become my play bike.

Anything can be hi-jacked by anything if you let it. Just ignore it and it will cease to matter xx

Good point

I am with the OP all the way here

I have not bought a mag for about 3 years yes I have flicked through a few in WH Smiths but put them back

I have not bought a bike for 4 years and despite what the press say I am happy with my Soul

FFs we are talking about push bikes here 2k is a month pay for the average brit and we have to live to yet mags appear to push 3K as a starting point nowadays

Saladdodger! look it's nearly all the old gang, just need a couple others and Kno…… oh, but he never posts here anymore. I miss his photos.

mtbing-hijacked-by-the-big-money-brigade-thread-hijacked-by-a-small-virtual-reunion 😉 x

You can buy a high end Land Rover Discovery for £64K
You can also buy a KIA Sportage for a 3rd of the price, it'll do 70MPH on the Motorway and its wheels will turn round when you accelerate. most of the stuff that the Discovery will do the KIA can also do.

A £600 Bike will do Most of the stuff that a £6K bike will do, Some people will will want to blow big money on a bike just like some folk want to throw two years wages at a Car

Its all about Choices, i dont think folk on £5K a month want to see £2K bikes any more than you dont want to see expensive stuff ?

FFs we are talking about push bikes here 2k is a month pay for the average brit and we have to live to yet mags appear to push 3K as a starting point nowadays

I remember reading in mbuk when I first got into mtbing (15 years ago) that a good first 'proper' bike should cost around a months wages... 3k would only be another 2 weeks to Jonny Average. Or none with a decent credit card/finance option.

IMO expensive bikes are nicer than cheaper ones, on the whole. Not necessarily mind altering differences (obvs, they are still bikes...) but little things that make everything that bit better. As a 15 year veteran (feels like the right word), I think I've 'earned' the right to have nice/the best bikes, regardless of if I can do them justice. If Jonny Average's cousin, Jonny Stockbroker, wants a nice bike, that's fine too, but he may wish to not spunk a suitcase full of cash on something he may not enjoy.

The £5k+ superbikes that get bought by bankers to mince around the Surrey Hills fund the R&D that will make your next bike better. New ideas get tried out there (to have something "innovative" to show off), the stuff that doesn't work gets swiftly forgotten and the stuff that does work will be on mainstream bikes in a couple of years. It's more interesting when it's new and on the high-end bikes, hence the greater press coverage.

I remember paying £700 or so for my Orange C16 in the late 90s with rigid forks. I paid another £280 a few months later for a pair of elastomer Manitou forks that were utter crap compared to what you get now even on cheapo bikes.

The world of sub-£1k hardtails and sub-£2k full suspension bikes has never been better, even if you don't bother adjusting for inflation. You have the people who buy the high-end stuff (for whatever reason) to thank for that.

Thinking out loud, what would the 'bikes are too expensive' crowd do to rectify the situation? Price cap? That would halt development in a heart beat, so no great parts from trickle down technologies. A points system based on the last 12 months riding? Get more points for riding shit bikes in extreme locations, riding the mega on a supermarket bso gets you enough points to buy a £9k dandy horse. Pootling to the shops on a carbon framed enduro gnarpoon? Sorry son, it's a base model hardrock for you...

The WMB after next has 25 bikes under £1500 in, I believe, FWIW.
the biggest selling price point for the average mountain biker (exc recreational cyclists) is around 3k. Some spend more, some spend less. Some want to read about aspirational bikes, some don't. C'est la vie
If you don't want to spend lots of money, don't, but you probably won't get the latest and greatest tech - it's up to you if that matters our not.
Mags, in my experience, actually have a reasonably wide range of price points in, but you'd probably have to read them to notice 😉

£999 can bag you an On One Parkwood that has a great balance of performance technology and vfm.

🙂

I think that low/mid price bikes are fantastic value for money compared to what they were in 1997 when I bought my first proper mountain bike. It was a rigid Orange P7 with an Alivio groupset which lasted less than a year. The frame only lasted about 5 years before the headtube flared so badly no amout of beer can shims could fix it.

I also remember that even back then there was a 9K bike. I don't think anyone actually bought one, it was more just an example of what was possible. From what I remember it was a Klein.

The problem with mountain biking these days is that there is some extreme turd polishing going on. Given the fact that there have been no real advances in mtb technology since full suspension (though an argument for uppy downy seat posts could be made, I suppose) manufacturers have been chasing smaller and smaller gains which gets much more expensive for considerably less value.

Edit: I stopped buying magazines about a year ago because modern mountain bike fashion has diverged so far from what I think it should be. For me, wheels should be getting smaller, tyres should be getting bigger, and derailleurs should be consigned to the bin. Instead, wheels are getting bigger, tyres are getting smaller, and derailleurs still rule the roost.

My main gripe about the MTB industry is the gradual encroachment of commercialism.

I have some bad news for you, it's called 'capitalism' and it's an evil but little heard of economic model that is slowly taking over the world. Whereas Victorian industry was organised on a purely philanthropic basis to give gainful employment to out of work ploughmen and peasants with all produce being sold at cost, things have changed...

Prices have gone up, and mountain biking in whichever form you choose has become a lifestyle to some people, a hobby to others.

Nobody needs the latest toys to enjoy riding their bike. I still have a 24 inch wheeled fully rigid dirt jump bike that i love hooning about on, and my other 3 bikes (yes, I'm sad) all have 26 inch wheels.

People can spend more then I have done on bikes, and might even think they are enjoying it more, but it has no effect on my pleasure. As long as I get to ride with my friends, downhill, xc, 4x or anything else, I'm happy.

Instead, wheels are getting bigger, tyres are getting smaller

Wheels may be getting bigger but tyres are not getting smaller, the choice of decent volume, lightweight, tough, grippy, fast rolling 2.4+ (for all wheel sizes) tyres is better than it's ever been.

Throw in 29+ and fat bikes and I'm not even sure where you got the idea that tyres are getting smaller?

Lets not forget that proper mountain biking has always been fairly pricey.

I still remember my 2003 Ellsworth I.D frame retailed at £1,500 but thats more to do with the importer gauging how much they could get away with (a la Jungle).

A 2003 Santa Cruz Bullit frame was £1,000?

11yrs on and we are at circa £1,500- £1,700 for a alu frame.

I guess its not 'too' bad?

Tomhoward - Member
...As a 15 year veteran (feels like the right word)...

15years? - pfft, that's about how often i replace my tyres.

my 'best' shorts are older than that.

you're not a 'veteran' unless your first bike had steel rims, v-brakes, and friction-shifting

etc.

[/yorkshireman]

handyandy - Member

...I still have a 24 inch wheeled fully rigid dirt jump bike that i love hooning about on, and my other 3 bikes (yes, I'm sad)...

you're probably feeling sad because you've only got 4 bikes.

you're not a 'veteran' unless your first bike had steel rims, v-brakes, and friction-shifting

v-brakes?!

newbie...

saladdodger - Member

FFs we are talking about push bikes here 2k is a month pay for the average brit and we have to live to yet mags appear to push 3K as a starting point nowadays

Sorry dude but I just don't think that stands up to any examination, frinstance MBR had as their bike of the year a £2700 bike this year. Not their starter bike or budget option, their flat-out best buy. And I think the Bizango the year before. They all continually cover cheaper bikes and have larger grouptests of entrylevel, midlevel etc.

(er, STW are probably the worst offender for this mind but then they don't actually review many bikes)

ahwiles - Member

you're not a 'veteran' unless your first bike had steel rims, v-brakes

V-brakes! Oh what I'd have given for v-brakes. I [i]upgraded[/i] mine to v-brakes in about 2006, it was a glorious day.

You can moan about the price of bikes all you like, but somebody ultimately has to pay for all Hora's spurious warranty claims.

You know that £90 of every car insurance policy covers dodgy whiplash claims. Well £250 of the cost of any new bike covers the cost of sending Hora a new set of forks/rear shock/snapped subframe/slightly tarnished top cap/mildly off-coloured handlebar grips/chipped nail extension 3 times a week.

So if you're apportioning blame....

[img] [/img]

You weren't there, man...

[img] [/img]

(I got v-brakes when they came out at the end of '95, man)

My experience is that there are still tremendous bikes to be had for relatively sensible money. The difference is that all the mags are now advertising the aspirational stuff much more and the bike manufacturers are broadening that end of the range.

When I bought a bike in 2006 that retailed at £2,700 it was up there near the top end of what you could buy without going boutique or custom. Even accounting for inflation that type of money would be seen by some as mid-range these days.

I bought my first new bike recently- my first new bike since 1986. So I guess this topic doesn't really apply to me 8)

Buy smart, buy parts in the sales or secondhand stuff. Let other people generate the stuff that we get. After all, you can then abuse your bike/kit more safe in the knowledge that you wont have a nice carbon full sus £2,700 frame to be weary about dropping/falling off/rock strikes 🙂

frinstance MBR had as their bike of the year a £2700 bike this year. Not their starter bike or budget option, their flat-out best buy. And I think the Bizango the year before.

I loved reading the letters sections of mbr for the following months after they gave the bizango bike of the year. It was comical the storm they got from the ex golfing enduro crew.

MTB is certainly the new golf. A trail centre car park is like a golf club from ten years ago. Plenty of executive cars with expensive bikes just like the days of expensive skill compensating golf clubs. Flashing their kit etc. But why is this a problem? people spending all their cash on expensive bikes its their money and good on them if it makes them happy.

You may not be able to get XTR for the price you could a few years ago. But the technology in lower models is loads better than it used to be. I'm personally happy with the cost of riding and just buy within my means new/reduced or 2nd hand.

When I bought a bike in 2006 that retailed at £2,700 it was up there near the top end of what you could buy without going boutique or custom

It wasn't really, there were plenty of 3,4,5k+ bikes, even from the big players, Spesh, Cannondale, Trek etc even then, it's just that they were mostly relegated to the arse end of the catalogue in a kind of 'oh and look, we sell this superdooper team replica style one too, but it's only really for chumps' kind of way, and very few of them actually sold.

The difference nowadays is that they are actually selling a fair few more of them and the mags are reviewing them as viable options rather than an 'oh my god look at this X thousand pound superbike!" mini-article.

Personally I'm sick of all the whiney cheapskates complaining they cant get xtr for 2 buttons and some magic beans. Especially people who live in a country where the currency is worth so little.

It's quite enjoyable riding round on a mega bucks carbon ego chariot laughing at poor people. You should all try it you might cheer up a bit.

MTB is certainly the new golf. A trail centre car park is like a golf club from ten years ago. Plenty of executive cars

I just like to let my riding do the talking, rather than the ££ of my bike............

(unfortunately my riding is saying: "Sh*t, watch out for that tree, don't brake there, look where you're going man, no, no, no and no, that's NOT how you jump, good g*d, you're fracking hopeless man" 😉

The reason I love companies like On-One, Ribble, Canyon etc is because they [s]offer kit that does the job for a more sensible amount of money[/s] cut out the middleman, buy direct (or from sources overseas) and sell direct, which does occasionally have legal ramifications and often screws over bike shops trying to make a living.

FTFY.

When I bought a bike in 2006 that retailed at £2,700 it was up there near the top end of what you could buy without going boutique or custom

I really don't think that's right. I worked in the bike trade from '96 to '98 and we sold bikes up to £4k. There were plenty of £3k bikes.

I do think that there are more bikes at the silly money prices now (eg £5k+) but as always, they're mainly just catalogue models, there as dream bikes for kids to drool over and then buy the cheaper models from the brand instead. That 'cycling has become the new golf' means that there are more people willing to buy a £5k+ bike IMO, particularly as bikes cost peanuts next to midlife crisis cars.

What it doesn't really mean IMO is that the bikes you really see out on the trails have got loads more expensive - certainly not if you consider how good they are now.

The reason I love companies like On-One, Ribble, Canyon etc is because they offer kit that does the job for a more sensible amount of money cut out the middleman, buy direct (or from sources overseas) and sell direct, which does occasionally have legal ramifications and often screws over bike shops trying to make a living.

But then that hurts the big slice that the loveable [s]shop[/s] community hub thats there to help poor riders who would like to get into biking/ontop the trails with their charity.

You weren't there, man...

'nam? as in Chelt'nam? 😉

Every single one of the golfing cyclists I know are leg shaving roadies. Pinarello seems to be very popular (looks good on the audi). I don't know a single MTBer who regularly plays golf (or ever has).

Personally, I thought Canyon, when I looked at their CX bikes, were quite dear.

Singlespeed_Shep - Member

MTB is certainly the new golf.

I agree, here is a round of the local golf course last month...

[img] ?1401564466[/img]

But then that hurts the big slice that the loveable shop community hub thats there to help poor riders who would like to get into biking/ontop the trails with their charity.

😆

Your views are already well known Hora. I was merely presenting the another side of the argument.

It's true - On-One etc. do provide good kit at amazing prices, but like most things - there's a catch somewhere, and in this instance one of them is the initial hands-on fitting and local customer service.

I've been on the other end of the Ribble 'amazing prices!' while working in a bike shop. As Ribble imported Campag there was no way we could ever match their prices (there were loads of Campag importers in the '90s, whereas Shimano worked purely with Madison - anything else tended to come in through grey channels), but riders would buy cheaper Campag and then expect my shop to fit it. We did, at full workshop rates, probably negating the benefit of buying cheaply and then waiting three days for delivery. However, my point is that it was an unfair business practice, of which ultimately Campag are arguably to blame.

Anyway, how are your kneepads? 😉

I've noticed a steep increse in the cost of high-end components and bikes in the last 10 years, but the vast bulk of the cycle market is at the sub-£300 end, so this 'hijacking' only affects a very small minority. Yes, companies have ramped prices up, but that's because affluent yet insecure men feel the need for expensive lifestyle products. Look at golf; you can pay over £1000 for a metal stick with a bit of wood on the end of it (and you need a set of 10 or more). Atleast bikes keep you fit and healthy.

Unfortunately, quality has suffered; even top-end componentry isn't as well made/made form as good quality materials as previous kit. Manufacturers want you to keep spending, so they introduce new standards all the time, and market new 'features', but the kit itself isn't all that good. Practicalyy all the bike mechanics I know say that newr stuff wears out/breaks more quickly, and needs replacing more often.