[Closed] MTBing hijacked by the big money brigade ?

I just like to let my riding do the talking, rather than the ££ of my bike............

(unfortunately my riding is saying: "Sh*t, watch out for that tree, don't brake there, look where you're going man, no, no, no and no, that's NOT how you jump, good g*d, you're fracking hopeless man" 😉

The reason I love companies like On-One, Ribble, Canyon etc is because they [s]offer kit that does the job for a more sensible amount of money[/s] cut out the middleman, buy direct (or from sources overseas) and sell direct, which does occasionally have legal ramifications and often screws over bike shops trying to make a living.

FTFY.

When I bought a bike in 2006 that retailed at £2,700 it was up there near the top end of what you could buy without going boutique or custom

I really don't think that's right. I worked in the bike trade from '96 to '98 and we sold bikes up to £4k. There were plenty of £3k bikes.

I do think that there are more bikes at the silly money prices now (eg £5k+) but as always, they're mainly just catalogue models, there as dream bikes for kids to drool over and then buy the cheaper models from the brand instead. That 'cycling has become the new golf' means that there are more people willing to buy a £5k+ bike IMO, particularly as bikes cost peanuts next to midlife crisis cars.

What it doesn't really mean IMO is that the bikes you really see out on the trails have got loads more expensive - certainly not if you consider how good they are now.

The reason I love companies like On-One, Ribble, Canyon etc is because they offer kit that does the job for a more sensible amount of money cut out the middleman, buy direct (or from sources overseas) and sell direct, which does occasionally have legal ramifications and often screws over bike shops trying to make a living.

But then that hurts the big slice that the loveable [s]shop[/s] community hub thats there to help poor riders who would like to get into biking/ontop the trails with their charity.

You weren't there, man...

'nam? as in Chelt'nam? 😉

Every single one of the golfing cyclists I know are leg shaving roadies. Pinarello seems to be very popular (looks good on the audi). I don't know a single MTBer who regularly plays golf (or ever has).

Personally, I thought Canyon, when I looked at their CX bikes, were quite dear.

Singlespeed_Shep - Member

MTB is certainly the new golf.

I agree, here is a round of the local golf course last month...

[img] ?1401564466[/img]

But then that hurts the big slice that the loveable shop community hub thats there to help poor riders who would like to get into biking/ontop the trails with their charity.

😆

Your views are already well known Hora. I was merely presenting the another side of the argument.

It's true - On-One etc. do provide good kit at amazing prices, but like most things - there's a catch somewhere, and in this instance one of them is the initial hands-on fitting and local customer service.

I've been on the other end of the Ribble 'amazing prices!' while working in a bike shop. As Ribble imported Campag there was no way we could ever match their prices (there were loads of Campag importers in the '90s, whereas Shimano worked purely with Madison - anything else tended to come in through grey channels), but riders would buy cheaper Campag and then expect my shop to fit it. We did, at full workshop rates, probably negating the benefit of buying cheaply and then waiting three days for delivery. However, my point is that it was an unfair business practice, of which ultimately Campag are arguably to blame.

Anyway, how are your kneepads? 😉

I've noticed a steep increse in the cost of high-end components and bikes in the last 10 years, but the vast bulk of the cycle market is at the sub-£300 end, so this 'hijacking' only affects a very small minority. Yes, companies have ramped prices up, but that's because affluent yet insecure men feel the need for expensive lifestyle products. Look at golf; you can pay over £1000 for a metal stick with a bit of wood on the end of it (and you need a set of 10 or more). Atleast bikes keep you fit and healthy.

Unfortunately, quality has suffered; even top-end componentry isn't as well made/made form as good quality materials as previous kit. Manufacturers want you to keep spending, so they introduce new standards all the time, and market new 'features', but the kit itself isn't all that good. Practicalyy all the bike mechanics I know say that newr stuff wears out/breaks more quickly, and needs replacing more often.

We did, at full workshop rates,

Unfortunately, quality has suffered; even top-end componentry isn't as well made/made form as good quality materials as previous kit

I'm no road-expect but my Ultegra 6800 is dog shit. Plastic, flimsy-feeling but worse still- it shifts clunkingly. Even my old SRAM and 2002 XTR combo was noticeably smoother.

[img] [/img]

My 2002 XTR rear mech gave up just last month..

stoffel - Member

Unfortunately, quality has suffered; even top-end componentry isn't as well made/made form as good quality materials as previous kit.

There's probably some truth in that, I've got an old mountain exage mech in the garage which is still going strong, today's XTR isn't likely to be going in 20 years or whatever. But at the same time, this is partly the desire for lightness, that one's made of bricks. And frankly a shift in desirability- most people seem to want performance today over durability, we don't often expect bikes to last a decade

My '96 XTR rear mech is still doing sterling duty on my CX bike. Mind you the main pivot did seize after 3 years due to corrosion but some disassembly and polishing fixed that and it's been fine since.

I agree that some components aren't as durable now but as said, that's the price for lighter weight.

Would I like a 5K+ superbike? Yes.
Can I justify one? No.
Would it markedly make my riding more enjoyable? Probably not, as I'm finding riding a rigid 29er a hoot round my way.

That being said I would really like a Chromag 29er, but will probably end up with a On-One Parkwood in a year or so.

Would I like a 5K+ superbike?

I'd worry about it, its condition, the Peaks gritstone, the rockstrikes, how I store it in the car, the chance it could be pinched from the car etc.

Mountain biking in the UK (outside of most trail centres) is hard wear and tear on kit.

Would I like a 5k+road bike

[u][b]YESSSS PLEASE[/b][/u]

Unfortunately, quality has suffered; even top-end componentry isn't as well made/made form as good quality materials as previous kit.

Can you back this up? Not a slight - I'm genuinely interested. I ride a reasonable amount, have worked in the trade and as a guide, but haven't noticed a massive deteriation in product build/material quality.

Manufacturers want you to keep spending, so they introduce new standards all the time, and market new 'features', but the kit itself isn't all that good.

Things like the Aheadset? Early versions weren't too hot, but the logic behind it is sound. Similarly tapered headtubes - PITA if you're riding a frame with a 'regular' headtube, but it's the bottom race in a headset that takes the pounding. Makes sense to make it a better load-bearing structure.

There are a lot of 'standards' of debatable merit, but I do believe that, on the whole, most new standards offer some sort of improvement. For instance, I love HT2 bottom brackets compared to HT1 or tapered, but I am looking forward to a standard that has decent sized bearings inside a more weather-resistant unit.

Practicalyy all the bike mechanics I know say that newr stuff wears out/breaks more quickly, and needs replacing more often.

But does it perform better?

Isn't anyone from the "big money brigade" going to contribute here?

All getting a bit one-sided.

chakaping - Member
Isn't anyone from the "big money brigade" going to contribute here?

All getting a bit one-sided.

Anyway global market people your currency is shit!

We all run XX1 and all that gubbins here on our pub bikes you poor pikey gits!

Isn't anyone from the "big money brigade" going to contribute here?
All getting a bit one-sided.

*Sticks head above parapet* *again*

You called?

*Sticks head above parapet* *again*

You called?

Are you the guy with two new carbon Santa Cruz? You'll do!

Back to the original question - shouldn't it be more like "Is MTB having a shot at the big-money brigade"? Since it's not compulsory to spunk £5k on a so-called "superbike" and we've established that there are some great budget bikes around.

If anything my tastes are getting less refined, having seen how good current SLX kit is.

Well I do have a couple of £5K bikes but also a steel framed one with CANTILEVER brakes so I guess that cancels them out.

If anything my tastes are getting less refined, having seen how good current SLX kit is.

As said on page 1 - I'm on Deore (and an SLX clutch mech).

My 9spd XT / XTR was sold at the weekend. 😕

Can you back this up? Not a slight - I'm genuinely interested.

Well, it's based on empirical evidence, rather than 'scientific' tests, but the consensus is that older kit lasts longer, and newer stuff seems to wear out/break quite quicly . I have original M900 XTR mechs that have seen over 20 years use, yet newer M960- stuff seems not to have lasted that long at all before having worn out pivots etc. My XTR M950 shifters and rear mech are stll goingstrong,but I've known people who've had more recent kit wear out within 2-3 years. A pair of recent XT shifters (ca. 2010) laste me just 18 months before wearing out. And of course square taper v HT2 bbs. The later beingmeasured in terms of months of longevity, compared to possibly even decades for the former. Shimano et al don't want you to keep your stuff runningfor 20+ years,they want you to buy new stuff every 2 or 3.

But does it perform better?

In 'real world' use; maybe for a short time, before it starts to wear out. Stuff like aheadset; maybe more conveneint for servicing. But a properly serviced old Cmapag/Dura Ace headset can and do run for decades. Many of us aren't all that interested in thelatest shiny gadgets; we want our bikes to perform relaibly for a long time. A lot of current kit isn't designed to do that.

Not sure whether to comment or not on this thread. But I guess my bike would be classed as a 'big money' bike. Its an Ibis mojo HD, and I guess it cost about £5k in total, although its been upgraded over the years to get to this point, rather than just being a single £5k purchase. Theres no 'justifiable' reason for buying a top end bike, unless you're a pro, people buy them because they want one, and they can afford it, so why not?

Is it better than a bike costing half as much? probably, but not by much, its certainly not twice as good, you're definitely into diminishing return territory once you get past the mid range bikes, whatever they are.

My first full suss was a specialised enduro, bought in 2005 for £1700 in the sales, I've still got it, in fact I'm riding it tonight because the Mojo is broken. Its just as capable as the mojo going downhill, but its a bit tougher uphill because its heavier and bobs a lot.

I started on a £300 claud butler in the mid 90's , back then I thought that was a lot of money to spend on a bike, but there were loads of people riding round on 2-3k bikes back then, and I thought they were crazy to spend that on a bike. I couldnt afford to spend that on a bike back then, but now I can, so I have , why not? may as well spend it on things you enjoy, cant take it with you.

Its not like there arent any good bike for under a grand, people can still buy good bikes for reasonable money, it just that now I think there is more choice at the upper end.

For what its worth, if I was replacing the mojo now, I'd probably go for the mid range YT capra, what does that cost ~£2k? its probably slightly better than my mojo at what I'd want it to do and costs half as much.

Many years ago, back hen goalposts were made of knitted wool, it used to be the case that one of the advantages of buying top end kit like XTR was that it was fully rebuildable

that was, of course, [i]if[/i] the importer ever had the spares in stock...

That really was MANY years ago. XTR from the mid 90s certainly isn't rebuildable.

Guilty 🙂 also have a very nice road bike of comparable value to aforementioned SC's. (For balance, I also have a secondhand single speed inbred and a trek 1.5 that still get ridden so it's not all hyperbling bikes 😉 )

Though I would say I'm probably not your typical 'big money brigade' type. I earn the national average wage*, don't own a car (or even have a drivers licence, though this will change in due course) and I'm a lodger in a friends house. I also don't have a family to provide for.

I've always had nice bikes relative to my income, MTBing, and more recently road, has been a massive part of my life for the last 15 years, so why shouldn't i have the nicest of the nice? It's not like I'm Jonny Stockbroker who has read an article in a fashion mag, gone down to his nearest bicycle emporium and asked for the most expensive one *cough*Gary Kemp*cough* though it's his money, and his to spend how he pleases.

*in case you're wondering how I have the bikes I do on the wage I earn, it's nothing to do with it. Earlier this year I inherited a considerable amount of money that I barely knew what to do with, aside from what bikes to buy.

So, there you have it. My flameproof suit is donned, do your worst.

people buy them because they want one, and they can afford it, so why not?

I can 'afford' it, but I just don't see the point. A super expensive bike wouldn't get ridden as much as my tattyold hybrid, so it would be a bit of a waste of money. Just because you can, doen't necessarily mean you should. Nothing wrong with having nice things, but not all of us are so materialistic. One day I'll get myself round to having a nice custom frame made, that's about the only real indulgence I'd think worthwhile. Otherwis it's a bit like just going and buying the latest top end BMW, when you could have bought a lovely old Lamborghini etc. Just because something's expensive, doesn't mean it's 'special'. And 'special' need not cost a fortune.

Having nice things doesn't make you materialistic. Believing that things are more important than people and other aspects of life makes you materialistic.

so it would be a bit of a waste of money. Just because you can, doen't necessarily mean you should.

Lucky we've got you to define absolutely what is an isn't acceptable.

Lucky we've got you to define absolutely what is an isn't acceptable.

I'm doing nothing of the sort. I just don't personally see the point of going and buying something 'bling' off the shelf, just because you 'can'. Where's the funin that? Unless you're just buying it to show off, then that's a bit pathetic. If you spent £7k ona bike you ride every day, then fantastic. I know a guy who's spent thousands on fishing gear, but he fishes every weekend, rain or shine, so fair enough.

I can 'afford' it, but I just don't see the point. A super expensive bike wouldn't get ridden as much as my tattyold hybrid, so it would be a bit of a waste of money

and thats great for you, nobody is forcing you to buy an expensive bike.

Conversely , mine gets ridden whenever I have a few spare hours (which isnt as often as I'd like, but is as often as it can be), and so far kept for 4 years, so in my situation I consider it an acceptable use of my money. Its not about being materialistic either, Its literally about it being at the time and in my opinion (and when I'm spending the money only my opinion matters) the best bike I could afford, doesnt matter if its only a little bit better than something costing half the price, for me, it was what I wanted, I could afford it, so why not? At the time I could have spent even more and got something that was better than the mojo, but I decided that where I would draw the line was with the bike I bought, you decided your line was with the bike you bought, and the chap who inherited his money above decided the line was with the bike he bought.

good job the bike manufacturers realise this, and make bikes for all budgets, tastes and disciplines.

My £200 hybrid gets ridden more than any of my bikes but it's also kind of supremely fit for purpose so it'd be daft to spend more. That doesn't deter me from spending that much on haribo alone for my mountain biking.

of course,

...v brakes...

i remember saving up for, and buying, and excitedly fitting a set of dia-compe something-or-others.

they were completely crap, but they were very light, and looked beautiful!

edit:

986's?

[img] [/img]

sigh, brakes were[s]brakes[/s] crap back then.

four Bloody Pages!?

Right then!

[img] [/img]

I built a fairly expensive full-sus up earlier this year. It gets ridden most days and goes for a couple of proper rides each week. I hired a similar but not as nice Canyon Spectral last week in Mallorca and the difference in the suspension's abilities was vast - Fox 'Evolution' vs Pike and Cane Creek - worth every penny of the extra cost!

Something lighter, more carbon, more custom, etc might cost a ton more but functional improvements would be marginal at best. But if you have the money, why not? It's a fraction of the cost of even the depreciation on a fancy car and unless you're one of those (possibly mythical?) trail centre posers at least mountain bikes get used for their intended purpose, unlike every off-roader that never gets its tyres dirty or every supercar that is permanently stuck in urban traffic!

Well, it's based on empirical evidence, rather than 'scientific' tests, but the consensus is that older kit lasts longer, and newer stuff seems to wear out/break quite quicly . I have original M900 XTR mechs that have seen over 20 years use, yet newer M960- stuff seems not to have lasted that long at all before having worn out pivots etc.

Serious questions - are you riding more? Or are you riding more in more challenging terrain? One thing I have noticed is that people are riding stuff now on 'regular' bikes that 10 years ago would have been the sole realm of a 'downhill' bike. We're also riding faster, because equipment is more forgiving and we can stop faster. To counter your above point, I'd suggest that all this wears kit out faster.

Although how you're wearing out shifters is beyond me... 😉

Shimano et al don't want you to keep your stuff runningfor 20+ years,they want you to buy new stuff every 2 or 3.

There's undoubtedly truth in that. To remain in business they need to fulfil a need. However, our purchasing power also funds R&D, which has given us the massively better bikes we have today, compared to those of 15 years ago. I also don't believe that the bike industry is as bad as something like the washing machine industry, where products have a cycle lifespan built in (I find it amazing - and a little scary - we have the technology to be able to model this and put it into production).

I for one like kit that can be serviced and rebuilt. There's a place for it on pieces such as hubs and headsets, but on drivetrains it's of arguable need as to make it sustainable, you'd have to sell it. To make it worthwhile it'd need to be of decent quality, plus you'd need to produce spares - all great so far. Even if people bought the mech, ran it and kept it going - which is brilliant - what happens when standards change (which they will)? OK, you can make a new cage / spring / whatever, but to stay afloat it will need to be sold at a price that can help do that - my guess is, on a small production scale, that it won't be cheap.

Alternatively you can buy a Deore mech that'll last two years and work brilliantly.

As I said, I love the idea of rebuildable kit in the bike industry, but I don't think it's a viable model (do you remember the Paul's Components rear mech?). Buying something like a quality pair of shoes or a good axe is an investment that should last years and be repaired, but I think we're a way from that - certainly on drivetrains - in bikeworld at the moment.

In 'real world' use; maybe for a short time, before it starts to wear out. Stuff like aheadset; maybe more conveneint for servicing. But a properly serviced old Cmapag/Dura Ace headset can and do run for decades.

So can a King or a Hope... (arguably of similar price range to a Dura Ace). Even cheaper cup and ball headsets will last if you look after them (as will Shimano hubs), but people prefer fit-and-forget bearings.

The point I was really getting at with the Aheadset is that overall it's a better system, pure and simple. It's simpler to set-up, more secure because the stem bolts straight onto the steerer tube and lighter because there's no expander quill needed. Downsides? Well, adjusting the stem height requires forethought. But once set, how often do you adjust your stem height?

And well done if you've got to the end of this post. I appear to have having a pre-lunch ramble. 😉

Yesterday I saw a Porsche Caynne with a Santa Cruz and Canyon full sussers on the back, case closed.

Jamie - Jamie - Freeloader! But we still like him

This issue has been around for a bit...

2009
2010
2011
2012
2013
2014

...incidentally. Here is my new MTB:

£400 + £100 for 10 speed SLX/RaceFace upgrade.

My kind of budget - what is it?

Yesterday I saw a Porsche Caynne with a Santa Cruz and Canyon full sussers on the back, case closed.

I once say a girl in a Porsche Caynne uplifting a bloke on a full carbon Santa Cruz/full facer sessioning Barry Knows Best in Peaslake, Surrey Hills. I couldn't decide whether to laugh, cry, a combination or just hang my jaw open.

I once say a girl in a Porsche Caynne

You've changed Hora. Once it would have been all flashbangs, etc...

Yesterday I saw a Porsche Caynne with a Santa Cruz and Canyon full sussers on the back, case closed.

Yep, you've really proved a point there 😕

I once say a girl in a Porsche Caynne uplifting a bloke on a full carbon Santa Cruz/full facer sessioning Barry Knows Best in Peaslake, Surrey Hills. I couldn't decide whether to laugh, cry, a combination or just hang my jaw open.

I bet he was having more fun than you and got a good shagging from that girl afterwards.

I bet he was having more fun than you and got a good shagging from that girl afterwards.

No, she wouldn't be taxi driving me around she'd be lazily laying on a bed smiling at me after I'd spent myself in her company not riding a bicycle 😉

8 seconds of activity leaves plenty of time for the uplift for you, Hora.

The point the OP made was about magazines featuring high-price kit. That's always been the case, as has the invariably positive reviews the highest price items get (singletrack mag excepted!). The mainstream magazines are part of an marketing industry that has to sell new kit every year to keep going. Many naïve people seem to open a magazine read a review, rush out and buy the latest £6K bike and believe they have the best kit, not realising that next month another one is reviewed as the best and is available for £7k.

8 seconds of activity leaves plenty of time for the uplift for you, Hora.

Is that 8seconds on rapid fire/pray-n-spray, kicking the bedroom door in whilst shouting [i]yaaaaarrr[/i]?

It is important to highlight new trends in mountain biking with these super expensive bikes making us feel inferior...
[img] [/img]

ooohhhh....I want one of those.
Oh, I have one.
And am still riding it.

I think the Savage Terminator was obsolete by the time the magazine was published 🙂
Still love the Attitude though. Pepperoni forks, cantilever brakes, toe clips and straps, how modern can you get?

etto helmets Awesome!

Glad those [I]"push-button shifters"[/I] never caught on though, terrible idea...

Maybe if I had a Klein superbike I too would grin as much as the coverstars... There Re not enough happy people on cover shoots these days as they are all to rad and gnar to show weakness!

If you watched any of the Bikemag.com Bible of Biketest review videos, the one thing they kept banging on about is that "Yes this is $5k bike but you can get the same frame with a similar fork and still great kit for less than $2k..."

They also wrote an article about how manufacturers only send them the Creme de la creme to review and actually getting hold of the lower spec'd bikes to review is actually relatively difficult...

http://www.bikemag.com/blog/the-web-monkey-speaks-the-rising-price-of-kick-ass/

My first mountain bike cost £380 and to be frank it was a shitter it was heavy the gears worked about 85% of the time and bits fell off it as I ride it down byways and canal towpaths. The first set of forks I got (RS quadra 21) were terrible, really really terrible, and they made eff all difference to the ride.

Fast forward nearly 20 years and my bike is lighter more reliable, actually can go off road ( in ways that the limiting factor now is me), this is ALL possible thanks to people buying XTR when all I could afford was STX ( not the RC version either I hasten to add) . Ask yourself why SLX is so good. It's good because 10 years ago it was XTR that's why

Isn't the OP getting function and form mixed up? Some people want a bike that looks beautiful and putting together the ultimate bike is just as rewarding to them as actually riding the thing. But it's probably just envy in the end.

No, she wouldn't be taxi driving me around she'd be lazily [s]laying[/s] lying on a bed smiling at me after I'd spent myself in her company not riding a bicycle

FTFY.

Chickens lay eggs. People lie on beds. They also lie about your sexual prowess. 😉

Those bitching about kit not lasting so long now should get on iplayer and watch The men who made us spend. I've only seen the first one but it looked at planned obsolescence and the need for new plastic shit every year.
I was angry watching it and found it thoroughly depressing. Just the sheer waste it generates 🙁

Back to the main topic, I've got a couple of bikes with a combined build cost slightly more that the cost of a brand new base model Dacia Duster.
Mountain biking is my thing. I considered spending less on bikes and buying:

- a trials bike. Great fun but very few places to use it. It would clog up the shed
- a paramotor. These look fantastic but I think it would get boring fairly quickly
- a classic car. Actually I did this in a moment of madness. It's for sale.
- a flashier car than my round the clock 2007 Skoda. It's just for ferrying the family around, I don't see the point.
- a motorbike for the road. I also did this. I'm finding it a bit boring tbh. By the time it becomes really good fun it is also hideously dangerous. It's going soon.

There's a load of other stuff I'd quite like to do, mostly watersports, but I know the gear would get used once in a blue moon. So I'll stick to my MTB's, a bit of carbon and custom steel.

If I was skint though, I know I could have almost as much fun on a decent £1000 hardtail. That's the beauty of bikes, they really are better value nowadays, no doubt about it.

There's a load of other stuff I'd quite like to do, mostly watersports,

That can be cripplingly expensive, especially if you get the taste for it.

Unless you have an extremely understanding partner. Who is just as kinky as you.

Surely it's up to me how I spend my money? Why should anyone else care?

Was having a similar chat with two ex-pat mates the other day about the bikes we ride in hong Kong (ones a teacher from Sheffield, another a Quantity Surveyor from Edinburgh) compared with what we had in the UK or bought over with us, example:
Me: UK Bike - 2007 Gary Fisher Tassajero (Still going) HK Bike - 2014 Pivot Mach 6 with XX1/XTR/Pike Build
Mate 1: UK Bike - 2011 Lapierre Spicy (Alloy) HK Bike - 2014 SC bronson with XX1/XTR/Pike Build
Mate 1: UK Bike - 2010 SC Heckler (Alloy) HK Bike - 2014 SC bronson with XX1/XTR/Fox 34 Build
I am certainly not rich but with no need for a car, a low tax rate both on salary and when buying (bikes are around 30% cheaper here than the UK) and a love of riding then I am going to buy what I can afford, I am never going to get the chance if I return back to the UK.
If you though that the UK bike parks where full of rich ex-golfers with Audis and Santa Cruz's then you should come here, I have never seen such expensive bikes being wheeled around....and I used to ride in Surrey!

Nobody on here should feel the need to have to justify what they buy !

If you earn £10K a year and drop a grand on a bike you're doing well.
Conversely if you are earning £100K a year and drop £10K on a bike in my opinion you are also doing well.

It's all relative, if I earned £10K I would aspire to owning something better, whether of not it made me a better rider is comparable but buying a cheap bike and being happy on it is just as fulfilling as buying an expensive one and being happy on it ?
If I earnt £100K i wouldn't be buying a magazine about biking expecting to find the contents thrifty and budget orientated, who's ever bought a car Magazine full of shit cars and then rushed out to buy it again a month later !

I can't remember who posted that buying a £7K bike wasn't enjoyable !
Are you sure about that, are you speaking from experience ?

Well said disco duck
It's the old self righteous post here 'I only spent X on my bike so I'm morally superior'. They ofc forget the context. Thier £1000 or £3000 bike is just as unattainable for someone on the minimum wage. I retired and treated myself to a new bike and have enjoyed reading articles on all bikes regardless of cost.

Mountain Biking has always been expensive when compared to the relatively low cost of rose-tinted specs (the goverment gives a set to you for free once you hit 50, I think.)

Back to the OP's original point about the new Cove frame being £1700. Yeah, you're right, that is a lot of money. However, previous versions went for £2000 and had been doing so for years. So, for it to have come down in price makes it pretty good value IMO.

I think some of this is Rose Tinted Specs forgetting that the cost of bikes in the 80's/90's was massive relative to income, then there's what happened to £ in terms of currency after 2007/8 - prior to then the (artificially!) strong pound meant that we were getting ludicrously cheap imports, bikes/bike parts included and then prices suddenly increased over just a year or two and perhaps gave many the impression of a big jump in 'the norm' where high end bikes were a consideration.

MTBing hijacked by the big money brigade ?

It may not be relevant to many of STWers but I meet up with a group of guys (and an increasing number of gals) some sundays here in the sunny Sierra de Madrid and although not many people have 5k bikes the collective spend on kit is eye wateringly high.

The group however is definitely not what I would call the Big Money Brigade. The organiser of the group turns up in a 2005 Citroen Saxo and is an unemployed (unfortunately all to common here in Spain) lift technician. Carlos is a fireman and a couple of guys work in bike shops.

The sport is expensive. It can be more or less expensive depending on whether you have to have the latest and the greatest or can accept that your bike will not get the most comments as you are preparing to set off.

We ride 100% natural trails as trailcenters haven't taken off here but I did ride Davagh forest in Norhtern Ireland and while immensely fun it was not nearly as challenging as stuff I've ridden here. Perhaps UK trail centers have made the sport more accesible to people and less has attracted the Johnny Stockbrokers along with Joey plumber and Pauly chartered accountant too?

Hang around for a year, and those high end bikes get cheaper as everything changes colour for the next year. Not everyone pays full whack for stuff 😀

My first serious bike felt like cost me a lot more than the 400 quid I paid for it. I worked 2 years on my paper round and saved up for it. On the face of it, later purchases did cost a lot more but felt less significant as my salary was a lot higher.

I'd also argue that bikes cost a lot more 20 years ago. That 400 quid GT Karakoram was a rigid steel frame with canti's and a penchant for wheels buckling. Nowadays a 400 quid bike will weigh less, function better and probably put up with a lot more (ab)use

Cycling is expensive, but the again it always has been.

The demographic of those who do it has changed as it has become cooler and become more of a lifestyle sport. At least in my office there seems to be a few older guys getting into it and having a bit more disposable chas means their first bikes are often quite tasty. If you can afford it, why not?

Some stuff seems to be getting really expensive - forks for example are crazy money but most people seem to have nice forks to it looks as though the market can stand the costs. They are better than they use to be - the original Z1 was a proper game changer and was expensive then but they were still common. A grand plus does seem a lot. Tyres are crazy money too.

However, how many people actually pay full price for stuff? I don't think that I've bought a chain, cassette, mech or shifter at RRP for years. SRAM stuff seems to get discounted big time across their range.

Also, you can keep costs down by changing your expectations - I've alays been an XT level guy, but the current Deore stuff is genuinely very, very good.

With that all being said, the top end stuff does seem to be heading north...i.e. the £10k builds from SC. I've been riding a long time and I do remember the high ends bikes but you didn't see them out about, but these days you do see some serious bikes so there is obviously a market for it.

It's always interesting why sc gets held up as the expensive example. The top end s works enduro costs the same as the top end Bronson and last time I looked was lower spec. If you tick every option things get expensive, if you give people choice it can be more expensive but some awesome bikes are out there and there are loads more decent bikes at lower prices. However if you want to complain about how expensive stuff is and how it was better back in the day then carry on grandad

Just as an aside comparing expensive bikes to cheaper bikes. Theres a downhill segment I do regularly (once A week), charity lane in macc forest, been doing it for years, and strava'ing it since strava turned up. My times down it have plateaud , and are usually within a couple of seconds of my personal best.

I normally ride it on my 'big money' bike, an ibis mojo hd, with carbon wheels, cane creek shock, marz 55 rc 3 forks, etc etc. Last night the mojo was broken, so I took my old 2005 enduro, with old original fox36 forks, dhxair 5 shock, heavy wheels, poor brakes etc etc, and absolutely smashed my previous personal best.

Still trying to work out what it is about the enduro that makes it faster downhill, its heavier, the equipment on it is not as good, the angles are steeper, the bars narrower , it has less travel, etc etc, but its definitely faster down that particular trail.

Anyway, no particular point to my post, thought it may interest the stw massive.

Surely it's up to me how I spend my money? Why should anyone else care?

Don't believe that's really the point of the thread, but if it's any consolation I don't give a monkeys how you spend your money.

It's always interesting why sc gets held up as the expensive example.

Is it because they're massively overpriced? 😈

It's always interesting why sc gets held up as the expensive example.

Is it because they're massively overpriced?

And their insidious marketing strategy of throwing an unending stream of their massively overpriced bikes at UK journos, so the mags get filled with an unrepresentative proportion of their bikes.

Having such a high profile cuts both ways of course.

julians - Member

Still trying to work out what it is about the enduro...

dunno, can't help you work it out, but those old enduros certainly are the tits.

As someone said up there, Santa Cruz have a huge presence in the mags and on the Internet. New SC bike? "Let's make a video". New wheel size? "Let's jump right on board and launch a whole new range for it."

They are much more heavily marketed than any other premium brand I can think of and also have a hugely successful DH team. I suspect shops also see SC as the "safe" premium brand and find it easier to sell a £6000 SC bike than a £6000 Spesh or Trek.

Basically, SC have done a superb job with their sales and marketing in recent years and have really capitalised on carbon and big wheels.

[edit] it may backfire on SC as they seem to be making a move to "model year" graphics on their bikes. One of the appeals of a boutique bike and a custom build is you''re not buying something that will look out of date in 12 months.

Some stuff seems to be getting really expensive - forks for example are crazy money but most people seem to have nice forks to it looks as though the market can stand the costs. They are better than they use to be - the original Z1 was a proper game changer and was expensive then but they were still common. A grand plus does seem a lot. Tyres are crazy money too.

On a mountain bike that you're riding hard downhill, there is nowhere else I'd rather spend money than forks and tyres! A bling transmission is just bling but better suspension and tyres makes a real difference.

Is it just us?
In the US; $5899 (~£3450) will get you a carbon SC Nomad with pikes, monarch plus, stealth reverb and X1 kit.

Don't forget the £700 of VAT wrecker and the couple of hundred in import duty to get it into the UK. HMRC is making a nice little bit there 😉

Of course, but SC UK don't pay US retail prices for the frames.
They have a lower spec full build Carbon Bronson for $3599!! It's the "lesser" carbon but still!

No but the vat is payable on the RRP. They also pay the people who assemble the bikes a better wage in the UK compared to the job I saw advertised for their factory. It costs money to ship stuff to the UK, it costs money to distribute kit. I'd love to see the STW import & distribution collective do much better 🙂

In the end I'd rather a bronson or nomad than this bland looking $10k bike
http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bikes/mountain/enduro/sworks-enduro